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So Are The Grizz Trading For A Big Or Waiving For Hollins


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#21 The Stro Show

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:12 PM

TA and Vince for Lance Stephenson and Josh Smith? Lol sign me up.

#22 Notorious O.D.K.

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:22 PM

Wallace likes Smith unfortunately

 

 

Getting Josh Smith at this point sounds like a Chris Wallace move. He's been on his scouting report since 2008 and is now washed goods. GO GET EM CHRIS!

 

 

Grizz desperately tried to get Smith last year after he was waived by Detroit.

 

 

Let me be clear, I in no way think this is the best move but it may be the best move that we can make at this point. I'm thinking he can give us about 8-10 pts and 4-5 boards off of the bench which would be better than any backup big we have now. I think a combo of him Jam Green and Brandan Wright could give us an athletic yet undersized backup trio. Not a big fan of his, but he could give us some good production off of the bench if his head is on right. 



#23 Ndq0327

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:25 PM

TA and Vince for Lance Stephenson and Josh Smith? Lol sign me up.


I just read an article that said having Lance is making LA miss Barnes. I know Lance has been bad in his last two spots but he's only 25 if we could turn this version of TA for Lance we'd have to pull the trigger. TA would be reunited with Doc and Pierce. The Clips could waive VC and go get another big if needed. With Doc as their GM I wouldn't surprised if it worked

#24 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:31 PM

I never said I am satisfied with a mediocre offense. I said I am happier supporting a winning team than a losing one. Today, the Grizzlies are neither but for the last 5 seasons they have been a winning team. 

 

The team isn't built to run like the Hawks, Spurs, Warriors or other teams so if they attempt to play that style they will lose. Just like they have lost this year to team's playing that style. Imitation may be the finest form of flattery but the Grizzlies aren't built to compete with teams playing the other team's style. 

 

I don't disagree that a more effective offense would be to move the ball side to side, screen hard and cut hard. That doesn't mean blowing up the system. That means running the system more efficiently. Doing the little things like making a pass, setting a pick and cutting to the basket doesn't mean the team needs to radically change. In fact, I don't see that meaning any change at all outside of being more efficient in the offense they are running. 

 

Nowhere in your numerous quotes is Joerger saying to shoot more three point shots. Nowhere is he saying to run up and down the court faster. He simply is saying the team needs to be more effective in running the offense they currently have. I agree with that assessment. The offense needs to be better at what they are doing and have done for years.

 

I disagree that it needs to change unless you consider a change to be running the offense the way it is supposed to be run. You believe, and according to your comments above have believed for a long time, that Joerger would change the offensive system. Joerger isn't saying he wants to change anything from what you quoted. He just wants the team to do what they do better. 

You need to read the full article - not once has anyone said they need to become a running team.  That's the same cop-out excuse everyone says whenever someone mentions that our offense needs to change. 

 

Let's see if Dave believes he is simply tweaking the old offense.

 

"It's a commitment you have to make," center Marc Gasol said. "Sometimes we rest offensively because we work so hard defensively. We tend to take a deep breath and keep it simple to save our energy for the defensive end. But we need more ball and body movement than we had in the past so that we're less predictable. One of the problems we have later on in the season is that teams figure us out and do things to stop us."

 

Sometimes, the Griz will even look for each other with long out-of-bounds passes. Yet they won't have the green light to shoot off one pass and early into the shot clock against set defenses.

"I won't let that (crap) go on," Joerger said.

The emphasis is on early offense, generating easy scores, but more importantly, making a number of smart passes that keep the defense off balance and chasing the basketball.

The Griz rebelled against Joerger's offensive initiative when he took over as head coach before the 2013-14 season. Memphis got off to a slow start record-wise during the first month and quickly went back to its plodding ways.  

"There was a belief from within that we didn't need to change anything because we were just in the Western Conference finals," Joerger said. "Now, guys have grown a little bit and realized that the ball has to move for us. When you played the (Jerry Sloan-coached) Utah teams, they led the league in points in the paint; it wasn't because they were tossing it inside and the low post was killing it.

It's part of the cutting game and passing game and getting offensive rebounds. Those are ways for us to get better. It's not just Marc and Zach getting points in the paint. It's Mike Conley getting in the paint. It's Tony (Allen) on his cuts. It's Jeff Green driving the basketball. That's more of our emphasis, and then things will open up on the outside."

So what indicates that the Griz will finally make the transition to the offense Joerger envisions?

Now do you think they view it as small changes or do they view it as a new offense?  Go ahead and argue with the Coach and go ahead and assume change means "blowing up the system".   



#25 Ndq0327

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:48 PM

Smith can't be traded till January or whenever FA are available to be traded.

#26 Father Pat

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:49 PM

I said I am happier supporting a winning team than a losing one.

Full blown captain obvious.

#27 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:00 PM

I just read an article that said having Lance is making LA miss Barnes. I know Lance has been bad in his last two spots but he's only 25 if we could turn this version of TA for Lance we'd have to pull the trigger. TA would be reunited with Doc and Pierce. The Clips could waive VC and go get another big if needed. With Doc as their GM I wouldn't surprised if it worked

Or they could go Lance + Cole for Tony + Vince.  Basically trade headcases and i am sure Doc would love to reunite with Tony and may even throw in a pick. 

 

Lance couldn't possibly be a worst fit than Tony at this point.    He is a credible playmaker for the SG spot and plays defense too.  

 

That move gives us our 4/5th big plus wing playmaker. 



#28 chipc3

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:34 PM

That article was from October 1st. To imply that is how Joerger is thinking right now is interesting to say the least. 

 

However, I don't disagree with Joerger. He wants the team to play better offensively. From what I have seen the team is getting plenty of open looks. They just aren't hitting the shots. They aren't predictable. They just aren't efficient. They need to hit the shots they are getting. They need to set better picks to free up people. They need to attack the rim more and make better cuts. All within the system they have had. 

 

The predictability the team suffered from before the season isn't the problem they are facing today. Today they aren't hitting their shots. Today they aren't setting good enough picks. Today they are improving their cuts but still need to do more of this. They need to keep the ball moving (which they have improved on). The offense is fine when the shots are falling. The players aren't forcing up contested shots like they did at the end of last season. Joerger addressed those issues and he isn't complaining about these things today. Right now, in the present, the team needs to hit the shots that are open. They need to set picks better. They need to cut to the basket to get easier looks. They need to keep the ball moving. All these things have been implemented already and now the team needs to start executing the system in place. 

 

I have been under the assumption that you want a "new offense" and not to execute better with the current system. If that isn't the case then we are in agreement. 



#29 Ndq0327

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:34 PM

Or they could go Lance + Cole for Tony + Vince. Basically trade headcases and i am sure Doc would love to reunite with Tony and may even throw in a pick.

Lance couldn't possibly be a worst fit than Tony at this point. He is a credible playmaker for the SG spot and plays defense too.

That move gives us our 4/5th big plus wing playmaker.


Don't think Cole can get traded till later either

#30 why jabba?

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:48 PM

Neither Smith or Cole can be traded till December 14. I think they would be willing to get rid of Smith and Stevenson especially if they continue to play the way they have been. The pick I think is a stretch because neither team wants to have these players in their future, except maybe Lance. He could reignite his career in Memphis; he did thrive with a veteran team in Indiana so who knows. Maybe Zbo and some of the other vets could help him channel all his emotions positively. Obviously the Clippers and young Hornets couldn't help him.   



#31 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:58 PM

That article was from October 1st. To imply that is how Joerger is thinking right now is interesting to say the least. 

 

However, I don't disagree with Joerger. He wants the team to play better offensively. From what I have seen the team is getting plenty of open looks. They just aren't hitting the shots. They aren't predictable. They just aren't efficient. They need to hit the shots they are getting. They need to set better picks to free up people. They need to attack the rim more and make better cuts. All within the system they have had. 

 

The predictability the team suffered from before the season isn't the problem they are facing today. Today they aren't hitting their shots. Today they aren't setting good enough picks. Today they are improving their cuts but still need to do more of this. They need to keep the ball moving (which they have improved on). The offense is fine when the shots are falling. The players aren't forcing up contested shots like they did at the end of last season. Joerger addressed those issues and he isn't complaining about these things today. Right now, in the present, the team needs to hit the shots that are open. They need to set picks better. They need to cut to the basket to get easier looks. They need to keep the ball moving. All these things have been implemented already and now the team needs to start executing the system in place. 

 

I have been under the assumption that you want a "new offense" and not to execute better with the current system. If that isn't the case then we are in agreement. 

This is basketball not football there aren't that many different plays to begin with.  So all the changes Dave mention does translate to a technically a "different offense" and that's why the CORE members complained and keep reverting back to their old ways.

 

"The emphasis is on early offense, generating easy scores, but more importantly, making a number of smart passes that keep the defense off balance and chasing the basketball.

The Griz rebelled against Joerger's offensive initiative when he took over as head coach before the 2013-14 season. Memphis got off to a slow start record-wise during the first month and quickly went back to its plodding ways."

They don't view it as simple tweaks or being more efficient in what they already did.  

"it wasn't because they were tossing it inside and the low post was killing it."

That was/is our offense basically run plays to toss it for a lowpost attempt inside this is Lionel's legacy.  So all the wrinkles you see about more cutting to the basket and slashing comes from what Dave has been trying to implement. 

Also this article is extremely relevant because it is from beginning of the season and tells you that he has been trying for 3yrs to change our offense.   Which once again affirms that the Coach unlike yourself wasn't okay with the teams offense and sees the same problem i see. 



#32 chipc3

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:12 PM

Joerger said in the article you quoted:
 

 

 

 the Griz don't want to run and gun as much as Joerger expects to get the ball up the floor and operate in their sets more quickly. There's no reason they Griz can't accomplish that given the enhanced athleticism and depth on this roster.

 

Getting into the sets they have run for years is not a new offense. Right before that Joerger said:
 

 

 

The Griz want to recapture the dogged defense that led the league in steals off turnovers a few seasons ago.

Does this mean the team is running a new defense? Of course not. And like the defense, the offense is basically the same. 

 

Joerger isn't trying to recreate the wheel. He is simply wanting it to run quicker and when the open shots the team has missed so far start to fall it won't be because the team is finally changing their sets. It will be because they are making the shots from the sets and that will make the offense more efficient and effective. 



#33 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:17 PM

Don't think Cole can get traded till later either

Darn'it!

 

Well i don't want Smith - i would rather spend that time developing JaM.   Wonder if we could do a 3 team deal to acquire the 5th Big.



#34 Ndq0327

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:25 PM

Darn'it!

Well i don't want Smith - i would rather spend that time developing JaM. Wonder if we could do a 3 team deal to acquire the 5th Big.


I doubt they do all of that for a 5th big it may be wise to just wait till the 14 when you have more options. But considering they probably just want another big body I don't think they wait that long. I'm not expecting this guy to be a world beater.

#35 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 04:20 PM

Joerger said in the article you quoted:
 

 

Getting into the sets they have run for years is not a new offense. Right before that Joerger said:
 

Does this mean the team is running a new defense? Of course not. And like the defense, the offense is basically the same. 

 

Joerger isn't trying to recreate the wheel. He is simply wanting it to run quicker and when the open shots the team has missed so far start to fall it won't be because the team is finally changing their sets. It will be because they are making the shots from the sets and that will make the offense more efficient and effective. 

 Uhmm he never said he wanted to "recapture their offense" like he said about the defense so no that isn't the same.

 

Like i said Joerger has been adding wrinkles since he has been HC but he is struggling to get the CORE to fully embrace his changes.   Taking into account the new plays he added plus increasing the pace does equate to changing the offense IMHO.   But if you choose not to believe that more power to you.



#36 smit-tay griz

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 07:33 PM

What would it take to get Nerlens from Philly?    Dude is going to be stud defensive anchor sooner than later.  Just curios asking for a friend. 

 

 

Calm down Cowboy i was referring to Philly they don't have any real players and aren't trying to win.

 

Now that you understand that you can safely watch the rest of your argument implode upon itself from the comfort of your keyboard. 

One post you want a Philly player.  Next post they don't have any.  What's the deal?



#37 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:31 PM

One post you want a Philly player. Next post they don't have any. What's the deal?

Who cares I was criticizing Philly. Now are you running to there defense too?

#38 smit-tay griz

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:36 PM

Who cares I was criticizing Philly. Now are you running to there defense too?

I'm not running to anyone's defense.  Just trying to figure out your seeming contradictory statements.



#39 southbluffsgrizzfan

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:36 PM

Waiving either of the young players makes not Waiving Stokes look absolutely stupid. I could see us moving Russ for a big cause they have Harrison in the dleague and he should at least be as good as a third pg by next season. But I think Russ has gotten an unfair shake due to Joerger's inability to let him be himself and learn from his mistakes.

I really hope the reason they are playing VC is because they are showing that he can actually still play. It makes no sense to go through another season with VC playing ahead of a young wing when VC is not in your future plans. All the BS about not knowing the plays is an excuse cause Chalmers doesn't know the plays but he is a more important player than Ennis.

good point about how it would look if we waived either of the young players.  I had forgotten about Harrison in the D League.  If someone would give something for Russ, then I could see that.  I also thought that the sudden minutes for VC might be a showcase for some team who might want his expiring contract and might need some 3pt shooting from time to time. 

 

I really wish they could figure out a way to get Hollins back at least for this year.  Not saying I would want to commit to a multi year contract with Ryan but he added something to the team during the preseason and Marc is surely going to "tweak" a knee or his neck or something playing all these minutes.  Makes you just sick at your stomach to think we had Hassan Whiteside and waived him twice.  Such a brilliant move that was. 

 

I realize the move needs to be toward youth and Ennis is "youthful"  LOL, but if it just sucks to be needing a back up big and cannot get one who is available and would want to sign with us because we have to hold a roster spot for a player who Dave will never play any meaningful minutes (Ennis).



#40 Ndq0327

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 08:50 PM

good point about how it would look if we waived either of the young players. I had forgotten about Harrison in the D League. If someone would give something for Russ, then I could see that. I also thought that the sudden minutes for VC might be a showcase for some team who might want his expiring contract and might need some 3pt shooting from time to time.

I really wish they could figure out a way to get Hollins back at least for this year. Not saying I would want to commit to a multi year contract with Ryan but he added something to the team during the preseason and Marc is surely going to "tweak" a knee or his neck or something playing all these minutes. Makes you just sick at your stomach to think we had Hassan Whiteside and waived him twice. Such a brilliant move that was.

I realize the move needs to be toward youth and Ennis is "youthful" LOL, but if it just sucks to be needing a back up big and cannot get one who is available and would want to sign with us because we have to hold a roster spot for a player who Dave will never play any meaningful minutes (Ennis).


The only person that should on the waive block should be carter