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Troy Williams Appreciation Thread


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#41 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:03 AM

I don't think this will be the last time we hear about Troy Williams. We'll have a few roster spots to round out next year.

 

The thing most people aren't taking into account is that Troy Williams' salary was not guaranteed beyond this season (and had the smallest guaranteed salary this season). When in doubt the non-guaranteed player goes out first, especially for a team close to the tax line like we are.

 

Will Troy get to keep his spot on the Iowa roster or does he lose that as well? 



#42 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:05 AM

Difference is I actually know/knew people that were on the Hollins and Joerger staffs and they literally said.   Those dudes, Did not like playing young(unproven) guys".   To be fair Hollins wasn't even as bad as Joerger is when it comes to development. 

 

I also have critical thinking and observational skills so using the evidence of how they managed their rosters.  I came to that conclusion even with insider knowledge. 

 

I give credit to Fizdale because he actually showed a strategy and interest in development across the board.   Once again its not as simple as saying X player has met the minimum development threshold because they played X number of minutes.  You have to evaluate the overall situation and how the coach handles young guys.   Fiz has shown patience and fairness in majority of the situations.  That's all a fan can ask for. 

 

Joerger is showing in Sacremento that he still doesn't like to play young guys.  

 

So who was talking to you then? Were you talking to assistant coaches? You can name them now since they are already off the Grizzlies staff right? 



#43 MemphisX

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:07 AM

Lmao

SSDD

#44 fanboyslim

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:09 AM

Will Troy get to keep his spot on the Iowa roster or does he lose that as well? 

As far as I know, roster spots in Iowa aren't guaranteed, so if the team (and he) is interested I'm sure they'd find him a spot.

 

I'm more concerned about him being poached by someone else, in the NBA or overseas.



#45 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:12 AM

As far as I know, roster spots in Iowa aren't guaranteed, so if the team (and he) is interested I'm sure they'd find him a spot.

 

I'm more concerned about him being poached by someone else, in the NBA or overseas.

 

Harrison lasted all season without a contract in Iowa. Has Troy been tearing up the D-League? 



#46 Ndq0327

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:22 AM

Harrison lasted all season without a contract in Iowa. Has Troy been tearing up the D-League?


Yes he has people know about him he led all rookies in scoring in the SL and was top in scoring in the preseason. He will get picked up by a bottom feeding team just watch.

#47 Memfizz

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:24 AM

#****Wallace

#48 smit-tay griz

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:30 AM

So a rookie is being demoted and another released to create PT for a veteran who was out of the league.

I wonder if those who were critical of Joerger for the Grizzlies FO releasing Ennis for a veteran center last year will be critical of Fizdale releasing Williams for Douglas this year? Or will they criticize Wallace for both deals?

More likely they'll continue to make excuses for Fizdale/Wallace and defend the team not developing youth in a season where the team is in 7th place in the conference when basically healthy. They'll continue to defend Fizdale starting Parsons over Ennis, releasing Troy Williams for Toney Douglas, demoting Harrison and Martin so Brandan Wright and Toney Douglas can get minutes and still proclaim Fizdale is trying to develop youth.

The truth is that Fizdale is playing only veterans of at least 3 NBA seasons now. He's playing 40 year old Vince Carter and broken down, out of shape Chandler Parsons while releasing a promising rookie in Troy Williams. I'm not critical of this either. I just feel those who criticized Joerger/Wallace last year are being hypocritical now.

In Dave Joerger's first two seasons combined out of over 39,360 minutes available he played rookies 1893 minutes.  In David Fizzdale's first season in over 11,760 minutes available so far he has played rookies a total of 1991 minutes.  If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.



#49 tjazz22

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:31 AM

SMDH at this one. Instead of getting rid of Wade Baldwin's non-producing *** or trash *** Andrew Harrison, we cut the one guy who actually plays like he belongs in the NBA.



SMGDH!!! I hope there a trade coming. This dude belongs on this team

#50 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:33 AM

So who was talking to you then? Were you talking to assistant coaches? You can name them now since they are already off the Grizzlies staff right? 

I have actually told you before just check some of your old direct messages from me.  I don't believe in putting people on blast that are still working within the industry. 

 

Besides the freaking beat writer has said the same thing about Joerger and every radio personality.   You are the only person on this board who has to hear the coach directly say "I don't like playing young guys", before believing it. 



#51 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:43 AM

I have actually told you before just check some of your old direct messages from me.  I don't believe in putting people on blast that are still working within the industry. 

 

Besides the freaking beat writer has said the same thing about Joerger and every radio personality.   You are the only person on this board who has to hear the coach directly say "I don't like playing young guys", before believing it. 

 

I don't have any record in my private messages from you. I don't remember any private messages when you told me any insider who told you about Joerger or Hollins' dislike of rookies. I strongly doubt Hollins, who started as a rookie in Portland, would be against rookies in general but I could see him being against unqualified or unprepared rookies getting PT. Hollins started Conley. He played Lowry. He played Gay albeit less than some wanted. Joerger played Calathes, Podexter, Davis and Leuer who were all on rookie contracts. He clashed with them. He didn't play them a lot but we need to remember that Joerger was in a "win or else" mode right from the beginning. That affects your desire to plan for the future, allow players to make mistakes and to think of anything other than maximizing wins now. 

 

In contrast, Fizdale is heading back toward the veteran only rotation that Joerger and Hollins have been criticized about with no expectation of winning this year. People are not expecting a run to the NBA Finals. Wallace hired Fizdale with Pera's okay so there isn't anyone looking over his shoulder like Joerger had who was hired by Levien and Pera was rumored to try and fire 2 weeks into his first year.

 

I'm also not saying that Fizdale should be criticized for this. I am only asking the hatred of Joerger and Hollins for doing the same thing needs to end. These men did their best in a tough situation. Hollins transformed this franchise from the worst in professional sports to a final 4 franchise his last year here. Joerger continued the success to the point that the Grizzlies have the 3rd longest active stretch of playoff appearances in the NBA.  

 

I want Fizdale to continue that success and I want Wallace to make great picks, intelligent roster moves and smart contract signings. I haven't seen Wallace do that much lately but I want him to do it going forward and possibly, signing Douglas and dumping Williams will be the first in a number of smart moves. I sincerely want that.  



#52 smit-tay griz

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:07 AM

@Chip you are being ridiculous trying to assert that Fiz dislikes playing young guys in the same vein as Hollins and Joerger.    

 

Harrison(a rookie) was closing and playing over 30mpg even when Vince, Tony, and Ennis were available.   I don't understand why Fiz gets no credit for giving Harrison time.   

 

He played Jarrell legitimate minutes and even started him.   Troy Williams started and got minutes as an undrafted rookie.  You cannot automatically assume this was only because of injuries.  

 

Ennis and JaM are young guys (NBA experience) getting real rotation minutes and have legit roles.  Joerger didn't want Ennis at all.   Lionel would've never played Daniels (another young guy) because of his defensive shortcomings.

 

The entire composition of this roster was crappy to begin with.   NO COACH would be able to navigate 4 completely inexperienced rookies with aging veterans and big money players coming off serious injuries - 100% successfully.  Some of ya'll aren't being realistic.

 

Moving Troy Williams to sign Toney Douglas is a Wallace failure.   Fiz has already SHOWN that he is willing to play young guys.   Chip what do you want him to do?   Start Wade + Williams and Davis together and play them 35mpg?   I understand by being a Grizz fan for so long that you really don't have a true understanding of what rookie development means.   Giving them minutes outside of garbage time and giving them a real opportunity to earn their spot is all a coach can do.  Whenever the vets were stinking it up - Fiz had no problem bringing in the young guys.   Joerger would never do that. 

 

Realistically, most teams can only develop at most 2  rookies on a playoff team at a time.  There are only two spots on our roster where those minutes can be given out due to the clutter on the wing.   Point Guard and Center.  Fiz obviously played Harrison and gave Wade a chance too.   Davis got real NBA minutes outside of garbage time but he has been injured.  Williams is battling an overall productive Vince, Tony, Ennis and surgent Daniels for minutes.   Not to mention he gets further pushed out due to integration of Chandler.    There is no justification that Troy Williams as an undrafted rookie can get minutes over all those guys;unless Fiz is willing to deal with a full fledged mutiny Troy is the casualty of Wallace's roster failure. 

 

 Spurs get a ton of love when it comes to development but even they don't throw 3-4 rookies out there in the same season.   Typically they focus on integrating one rookie a season.  Which is something I personally have been begging for.   No sane basketball fan thinks a playoff team should be trying to integrate 4 rookies and a limited experienced second year guy into the rotation.   

Let's dispel this ridiculously stupid notion that Hollins didn't play young guys.  Hollins first season as head coach his starting lineup had three rookies, one second year player, and one third year player.  The following season two of those three rookies were still starting along with the second and third year guys and he played his new crop of rookies over 3000 minutes.  The following season he tried inserting one of the rookies into the starting lineup until he was injured, and another became the primary backup at PG.  Although he was only able to get 1500 minutes from his new crop of rookies he still played the second year guys a total of 1985 minutes while the rookies, second and third year players of his first season coaching still got the bulk of minutes.  If Hollins played young players less as the years went by it was because our draft picks were much lower and less qualified.



#53 Blue Bear

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:18 AM

SMDH at this one. Instead of getting rid of Wade Baldwin's non-producing *** or trash *** Andrew Harrison, we cut the one guy who actually plays like he belongs in the NBA.

 

I really hate that they dropped him from the team. 



#54 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:18 AM

Let's dispel this ridiculously stupid notion that Hollins didn't play young guys.  Hollins first season as head coach his starting lineup had three rookies, one second year player, and one third year player.  The following season two of those three rookies were still starting along with the second and third year guys and he played his new crop of rookies over 3000 minutes.  The following season he tried inserting one of the rookies into the starting lineup until he was injured, and another became the primary backup at PG.  Although he was only able to get 1500 minutes from his new crop of rookies he still played the second year guys a total of 1985 minutes while the rookies, second and third year players of his first season coaching still got the bulk of minutes.  If Hollins played young players less as the years went by it was because our draft picks were much lower and less qualified.

 

While I appreciate the effort, give it up. The truth isn't as important as "the heart of the story" for some people. 



#55 GrizzTigerFan

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:20 AM

Let's dispel this ridiculously stupid notion that Hollins didn't play young guys.  Hollins first season as head coach his starting lineup had three rookies, one second year player, and one third year player.  The following season two of those three rookies were still starting along with the second and third year guys and he played his new crop of rookies over 3000 minutes.  The following season he tried inserting one of the rookies into the starting lineup until he was injured, and another became the primary backup at PG.  Although he was only able to get 1500 minutes from his new crop of rookies he still played the second year guys a total of 1985 minutes while the rookies, second and third year players of his first season coaching still got the bulk of minutes.  If Hollins played young players less as the years went by it was because our draft picks were much lower and less qualified.

I agree that Hollins wasn't as bad as Joerger when it comes to playing young guys.  My problem with Hollins was the way he treated them.  The way he dealt with young'ins (not named Mike Conley) was to be extremely impatient with them and crush their confidence. 

 

Even his best friend Ron Tillery will attest to the fact that Hollins preferred to not play young or unproven guys.    Joerger is the poster-boy for not playing youngsters along with guys like Larry Brown. 



#56 chipc3

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:23 AM

I agree that Hollins wasn't as bad as Joerger when it comes to playing young guys.  My problem with Hollins was the way he treated them.  The way he dealt with young'ins (not named Mike Conley) was to be extremely impatient with them and crush their confidence. 

 

Even his best friend Ron Tillery will attest to the fact that Hollins preferred to not play young or unproven guys.    Joerger is the poster-boy for not playing youngsters along with guys like Larry Brown. 

 

Hollins preferred not to play youngsters but was forced to because the team didn't have any vets better. 

 

Sounds just like Fizdale right now. Or is Fizdale going to play Harrison and Baldwin ahead of Toney Douglas? 

 

Joerger being thrown in the same category as a Hall of Fame coach? Is that supposed to be an insult? 



#57 smit-tay griz

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:25 AM

I agree that Hollins wasn't as bad as Joerger when it comes to playing young guys.  My problem with Hollins was the way he treated them.  The way he dealt with young'ins (not named Mike Conley) was to be extremely impatient with them and crush their confidence. 

 

Even his best friend Ron Tillery will attest to the fact that Hollins preferred to not play young or unproven guys.    Joerger is the poster-boy for not playing youngsters along with guys like Larry Brown. 

Hollins played young players that performed.  How many young guys that he did not play showed that they were valuable commodities?



#58 chasingpapes

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 12:07 PM

Lol I'm just saying, Williams stepped up and played big whenever he was called upon this season. What has Baldwin done? Harrison? They're the reason why we have to cut Troy, not Troy himself.

I'm not saying cut your first round pick...but don't cut the guy who deserves to be on the team.

 

I feel ya. It really shouldn't have come to this. Goin into the season with two rooks at point was the wrong move that forced this. Even if Baldwin/Harrison were playin well we'd still need a vet with experience backin up Conley. Troy was too deep in the depth chart to really get any more significant minutes this year, barring injury. So hopefully if he ends up back in Iowa i imagine they'll bring him back in for summer league action atleast. It was a move we had to make.



#59 The Stro Show

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

One thing is for sure, I trust Douglas more than Wade and Twin.

#60 Memfizz

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:05 PM

I'm as mad as anyone, but the only funny thing is how much everyone wanted Douglas back and now doesn't give a ****.

We should have DEFINITELY waived Wade or somebody though.. Troy was an absolute stud