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MemphisX

Chad Fruad: Grizz may trade Rudy, Hasheem?

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Why didn't the Griz sign Rudy in the summer? I think part of it was to save money in the short term -- $6mil-$9mil. I'm sure they knew that Rudy was capable of performing in way that would increase his value as a FA this summer. And I'm sure they thought about the conditions of the FA market, and that teams left out of the James/Wade/Bosh derby might throw a lot of money at Rudy. Consequently, I think they are prepared to match just about any offers for Rudy.

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It's not that simple.

 

The Grizzlies cannot simply match Rudy Gay at a 12-13 million a year offer with the out of being able to trade him.

 

For one, he would be a BYC player for at least one full season, meaning if a deal became available for Rudy this time next year, he'd be almost untradeable to get any kind of value back for him.

 

Also, matching an offer for him does not mean they can match the contract and then trade him immediately. If they match the offer, it becomes a contract that WE take on. Sign and trades have to be negotiated BEFORE an offer sheet is even made to Rudy Gay.

 

If they match, they need to do so with the intent of keeping him for the long-term.

 

You always have to keep your options open. Making sure that your high paid players are tradeable is a good thing to do. Like I said before, the real problem would come when we have to resign Mayo, and by then Gay won't be a BYC at all.

 

You match, you keep him for a couple of playoff runs and then you see what you need to do, and which player is a keeper and which one is not. Having tradeable players means that you can postpone some critical decisions to the limit. And splitting a core that seems to be ultra competitive is as critical a decision as it gets.

 

So yes, you match Rudy, even if it's at 12-13 (it won't be that high) unless you can get a good sign and trade, you try to fix the bench over the summer and prepare to try a deep run in the playoffs. Then we start thinking about Marc and Zach, and it's soon to tell anything about them right now. By our second run, Rudy or Zach should be tradeable if needed so to keep Mayo, or any other player (you never know when you can get a steal in the draft), Marc would be BYC so we would have to wait at least a year.

 

So yeah, in two and a half years we may have to split the core, until then, let's ride it. And we might be able to keep the four of them even longer, it will depend on the contracts we can get them to sign, starting with Rudy. If you can get Rudy for under 10 a year, preferably front loaded, that would be a very good thing.

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Kevin,

 

I really don't get your reaction to this. I'm just having a conversation to pass the time.

 

In response to Chip, no I didnt' realize that. Its been awhile since I buried my head in the Cap and contract stuff. Its also been awhile since I looked at what a team can afford.

 

So I could be wrong in what we can and can't match. But thats the fun in being a fan. The discussion.

 

I don't get the panic from so of you about an internet discussion and rumor.

 

Ford, Vernon etc dont have any power. They just add to discussions. If Verno had power Conley would be gone, Randolph wouldn't be here and OJ would be playing pg.... if we would have gotten him at all.

 

I'm a big believer in psychology in sports. The reason one team wins and the other loses has a lot to do with a player or a team's mind frame. The older I get and the many years I've watched sports it happens time and again.

 

One well placed rumor or seed can take this whole thing away from the grizzlies, and I am a firm believer in this. There is no way that the grizzlies will sustain these rumors and when you guys and the radio sports media like Vernon keep feeding this story, it WILL change the mind set of our team. You can bank on it.

 

You already have seen this with this thread, half the people here are finding every deal imaginable to trade Rudy to another team.

 

May I remind you that we haven't even signed Rudy yet? What happens if Rudy get paranoid?

 

It one takes something small like this and it's over. You don't think so, but could happen. The last thing the grizzlies need are distractions of the money kind.

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"You always have to keep your options open. Making sure that your high paid players are tradeable is a good thing to do. Like I said before, the real problem would come when we have to resign Mayo, and by then Gay won't be a BYC at all.

 

You match, you keep him for a couple of playoff runs and then you see what you need to do, and which player is a keeper and which one is not. Having tradeable players means that you can postpone some critical decisions to the limit. And splitting a core that seems to be ultra competitive is as critical a decision as it gets.

 

So yes, you match Rudy, even if it's at 12-13 (it won't be that high) unless you can get a good sign and trade, you try to fix the bench over the summer and prepare to try a deep run in the playoffs. Then we start thinking about Marc and Zach, and it's soon to tell anything about them right now. By our second run, Rudy or Zach should be tradeable if needed so to keep Mayo, or any other player (you never know when you can get a steal in the draft), Marc would be BYC so we would have to wait at least a year.

 

So yeah, in two and a half years we may have to split the core, until then, let's ride it. And we might be able to keep the four of them even longer, it will depend on the contracts we can get them to sign, starting with Rudy. If you can get Rudy for under 10 a year, preferably front loaded, that would be a very good thing."

 

 

++++++++++1

 

 

 

 

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I'll make it my business to never say anything to you. If you think Hamed's the 2nd coming of Patrick Ewing thats your business. Man I had no idea Hamed was in such high demand. Thanks for the info by the way.

 

idk how you come up with these miraculous conclusions but i think you're talent and insight could be better used by some physicists to figure out what a black hole is made of instead of posting on the forum.

 

where you determined i equated Hamed Haddadi as Patrick Ewing is anybody's guess.

 

to be precise what i said was Hamed deserves minutes. i guess you believe thats my petition for his all star candidacy.

to elaborate on what that means, which will likely go over your head, his somewhat impressive accomplishments in other leagues would lead one to believe he has just as much chance for progress as Thabeets ho hum college career would lead one to believe he's the next Mutumbo. When Haddadi had the chance to play off instinct he did fairly well. When he was forced into half court sets it appeared language barriers caused problems. my understanding is this has improved and with some minutes in an NBA game, he should progress decently. Even more bizarre is that i mentioned him needing about 5 to 10min a game and you somehow interpreted that as being Patrick Ewing. tell me, on what planet would the old Patrick Ewing get 5 to 10min a game? cant wait to hear it.

 

what all my statements imply is that Hamed posses basically the same skills as Thabeet and had accomplished more thus meaning he at minimum deserves some minutes to find out if he can ultimately hack it or not. The truth is, what i've seen of him, he's played better than Thabeet when given the chance but Thabeet gets the minutes bc he's a #2 pick. You've never heard Hollins claim theyre teaching him to play the game of basketball like you would a 7th or 8th grader which he said about thabeet. refer to my signature. I'm fairly confident you wouldnt have seen Hamed be inserted into a game early in the 2nd quarter and then swiftly be replaced by Steven Hunter for the rest of the game when a reserve was needed. that's what happened to Thabeet. He played so poorly Hollins thought Hunter would do a better job.

 

despite what the banner may cause you to believe, im actually not a Haddadi fan at all. however, in comparison to Thabeet, he's comparable if not better and his lapses seemed to have very little to do with IQ as Thabeets always do.

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You always have to keep your options open. Making sure that your high paid players are tradeable is a good thing to do. Like I said before, the real problem would come when we have to resign Mayo, and by then Gay won't be a BYC at all.

 

You match, you keep him for a couple of playoff runs and then you see what you need to do, and which player is a keeper and which one is not. Having tradeable players means that you can postpone some critical decisions to the limit. And splitting a core that seems to be ultra competitive is as critical a decision as it gets.

 

So yes, you match Rudy, even if it's at 12-13 (it won't be that high) unless you can get a good sign and trade, you try to fix the bench over the summer and prepare to try a deep run in the playoffs. Then we start thinking about Marc and Zach, and it's soon to tell anything about them right now. By our second run, Rudy or Zach should be tradeable if needed so to keep Mayo, or any other player (you never know when you can get a steal in the draft), Marc would be BYC so we would have to wait at least a year.

What about Marc?

 

He expires next year along with Randolph. Assuming Z-Bo can be re-signed for even 2/3 of his current contract, what do you think Marc will command? He will have to be extended the same offseason as Z-Bo. He's easily a 7-9 million dollar a year center.

 

Rudy at 12-13, Zach at 10, Marc at 9. That's 31 million in 3 players. Over half the ideal cap for our market. Add O.J. and Hasheem's contracts of ~4-5 million each and you are up to 40. With 10 more players you have to pay to fill out the roster. Unless you are drafting like the Spurs of old, you won't have enough young talent on small enough deals to compliment those salaries and keep your cap reasonable.

 

The Grizzlies have one of three directions they can go in.

 

1) Match an offer for Gay and look to get value from Z-Bo's expiring and Marc Gasol next offseason in the form of a young enough big man that you can consolidate their two salaries into one player and that player would become a part of your core (Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson, Bogut).

 

2) Trade Gay now for players with less upside on shorter deals that can still help you win now and won't disrupt the chemistry (like a Tayshawn Prince) with eyes on keeping Gasol and extending Randolph and use picks to supplement those guys.

 

3) Sign and trade Gay in the offseason for lesser players and or picks with eyes on the future to keep building. Take the money he opens up and spend on a lesser player on the market (John Salmons) that can compliment what you still have and try and keep your financial house in order.

 

I don't see how anyone could argue against these options if they are thinking rationally about this team and it's market.

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One well placed rumor or seed can take this whole thing away from the grizzlies, and I am a firm believer in this.

 

what?

are you saying that Ford has more power over the grizzlies franchise in terms of planting rumors for fans to talk about and then Wallace/Heisley are foreced to do what the fans want?

 

:blink:

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Man WE should make all we could to let our guys stay together!!!OJ/RUDY/ZACH/GASOL

For me,OJ/RUDY/GASOL should not be trade and Thabbet if he devolop his game in the D end...

Give him some time!!!

 

When I saw a report about we getting brewer and getting wafer, when I'm dreaming we draft Monroe and Turner or get a nice FA next year.Everything is important; BUT if our players don't stay together everything will continue to be nothing...

Just REBUILDING!!!

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what?

are you saying that Ford has more power over the grizzlies franchise in terms of planting rumors for fans to talk about and then Wallace/Heisley are foreced to do what the fans want?

 

:blink:

 

No man. I am not talking about Ford forcing anything. You don't have to force the trade for the rumor to accomplish what it wants.

 

Maybe you aren't old enough to understand what I am talking about.

 

A well placed rumor can get into our players mind set. And if that happens it can effect the play on the court. Some players never recover from things like that. See Chris Webber. Basketball, like all high level sports, is about being mentally tough. Winning and losing is about the mind and nothing else but it.

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This topic has gone insane. One guy writing a trade rumor doesnt change the entire future of our franchise. I think people need to calm down a little bit and worry about beating the Thunder

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I'm a big believer in psychology in sports. The reason one team wins and the other loses has a lot to do with a player or a team's mind frame. The older I get and the many years I've watched sports it happens time and again.

 

One well placed rumor or seed can take this whole thing away from the grizzlies, and I am a firm believer in this. There is no way that the grizzlies will sustain these rumors and when you guys and the radio sports media like Vernon keep feeding this story, it WILL change the mind set of our team. You can bank on it.

 

You already have seen this with this thread, half the people here are finding every deal imaginable to trade Rudy to another team.

 

May I remind you that we haven't even signed Rudy yet? What happens if Rudy get paranoid?

 

It one takes something small like this and it's over. You don't think so, but could happen. The last thing the grizzlies need are distractions of the money kind.

 

Since my masters and bachelors is in Psychology, I also believe in psychology is sports. But #1) its part of the nba. Just like several other players he'll have to learn how to ignore it. 2) Rudy should not and better not be reading message board threads. Thats on him. 3) Nothing we do here on a messageboard is going to have dramatic effect on Verno or those guys. They are going to do what gets a response from their listeners.

 

But basically it comes down to Hollins job and Rudy's job to ignore outside distractions. If they can't deal with a minor rumor then how the heck are they going to deal with all the playoff speculation and news. In fact as the team gets more recognition they will get more and more news out there criticisizing their jobs. Its up to them to learn how to deal with it.

 

To me its just another part of their development.

 

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I'm a big believer in psychology in sports. The reason one team wins and the other loses has a lot to do with a player or a team's mind frame.

Then why in the world are you so adamant about re-signing Rudy Gay? He has the most fragile frame of mind on the team. Even worse than Mike Conley.

 

I wouldn't want to peg my team's future on that.

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I'm saying the Grizzlies should match any offer. I don't have the money to match any offer he gets.

You do remember how the Pau Gasol experiment worked out, right? You don't give that kind of money to a guy who isn't a bonafide #1 option in a small market like Memphis. Do that with Rudy and we will go down the same path we went down a few years ago.

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You do remember how the Pau Gasol experiment worked out, right? You don't give that kind of money to a guy who isn't a bonafide #1 option in a small market like Memphis. Do that with Rudy and we will go down the same path we went down a few years ago.

 

Well, then the question goes back to, do we have a bonafide #1 right now?

 

I do know this; despite Randolph's age, we should keep him around. You cannot discount the influence on this team he has had. Most importantly, he has made the Mayo/Gay struggle for leadership a moot point. They both defer to his leadership, and he has taken it and run with it. Now, this wouldn't require a max length contract; hopefully we could get him to do a 3-4 year deal. But keeping Z-bo logically needs to be a priority right now.

 

I dunno if Randolph is a "bonafide" #1 option, but his skills and leadership make him the closest thing we will have, until possibly Mayo is ready to step into that role in a few more seasons.

 

Now, what I am about to say is not an argument for trading Rudy Gay...just something else to consider.

 

Although an exciting player to watch, he may be just as unmarketable as Pau was here. He is still associated with our losing years and he really doesn't have any kind of a "story". Mayo has been marketed since he was a kid, and Z-bo's "underdog" story combined with the fact that he can ball and is a tough, gritty player makes both of those guys more attractive "star" draws in this market.

 

I'm just sayin', I doubt that would play significantly into any FO decisions.

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It does if you are Michael Heisley and don't want to risk having to match an offer or stiffle the short term success we have been having by taking back less in a sign and trade deal..ala Rashard Lewis to Orlando. A second round pick isn't going to help us much next year if we lose Gay and have to replace him with lesser players via the draft or free agencey and we ain't matching an offer that is too high. I'm sorry. That is the truth. People act like they don't know who is running this team.

 

One thing I do like about Heisley's philosophy is that he doesn't make these kinds of decisions until he HAS to. Problem with that is, we don't and won't know when he makes that decision until it happens.

 

 

Same reason he traded for the maxed out Zach Randolph instead of offering a smaller yearly salaried contract to Lee or Milsap. It's less money long-term. He does not want that. Prince or Butler are shorter deals. Just like Nate Robinson, Dorell Wright, Ronnie Brewer, Von Wafer. Get the picture? Wake up people.

 

It is what it is.

 

 

Yep, now if Heisley open up his wallet a little. He might have some dust in there? lol.

 

sign,

 

Stephen Aye

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Then why in the world are you so adamant about re-signing Rudy Gay? He has the most fragile frame of mind on the team. Even worse than Mike Conley.

 

I wouldn't want to peg my team's future on that.

 

 

The deal I would make would be Rudy for Gerald Wallace? That would be equal value IMO.

 

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhvvncb

 

sign,

 

Stephen Aye

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No man. I am not talking about Ford forcing anything. You don't have to force the trade for the rumor to accomplish what it wants.

 

Maybe you aren't old enough to understand what I am talking about.

 

A well placed rumor can get into our players mind set. And if that happens it can effect the play on the court. Some players never recover from things like that. See Chris Webber. Basketball, like all high level sports, is about being mentally tough. Winning and losing is about the mind and nothing else but it.

 

wow. i was actually going to drop this till you're weak attempt to bring my wisdom into the discussion.

i'm more than old enough to understand what most people are talking about. typically the stuff you say however is so ridiculous i need to double check to make sure i read it right. im giving you the chance to fix the ridiculous that are your posts.

 

theres a reason why the crap you say is consistently in somebodies signature.

 

Conley challenging Stocktons assist record is probably my favorite.

OJ being the weakest link in the starting 5 lol.

 

the majority of the forum members would agree you hardly ever know what you're talking about.

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I'm soooooooooooooooooooooo against trading Rudy but if we did give me Josh Smith and ATL 1st round draft pick for Rudy and our 2 late draft picks. not Prince, Butler or anybody else. This move would make O.J feel like it's his team and we get another high flyer with better production and Defense,but please don't trade Rudy!!!!!!

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wow. i was actually going to drop this till you're weak attempt to bring my wisdom into the discussion.

i'm more than old enough to understand what most people are talking about. typically the stuff you say however is so ridiculous i need to double check to make sure i read it right. im giving you the chance to fix the ridiculous that are your posts.

 

theres a reason why the crap you say is consistently in somebodies signature.

 

Conley challenging Stocktons assist record is probably my favorite.

OJ being the weakest link in the starting 5 lol.

 

the majority of the forum members would agree you hardly ever know what you're talking about.

 

 

This is so ironic.

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I have a question for all you who are in favor of this move or see it as realistic in any shape or form.

 

My question is this: so the grizzlies are in the mist of their first winning season in 5 years, and a report comes out that suggests that the grizzlies might want to deal one of the key players on the team and the response to that report is a collective yes? Ford makes a lot of sense and we can't overpaid Rudy. Instead of the other alternative, if this is true Heisley is showing his true colors. I haven't read one response in this thread that suggested that Heisley is being cheap if this is true.

 

Let me ponder this for a moment. So I am the one that is being ridiculous because I am attempting to keep the good thing the grizzlies have going? Am I correct in observing that? That, because I would rather let this story die a quick death and enjoy our first winning season, I'm out of my mind for caring about that. Is that it?

 

Because I don't care about entertaining a report that the grizzlies trade a 20 point scorer for a guy with knee problems, 4 years older and makes more than 10 million a year, of which the guy I'm giving up can only make 2 million more next year and scores 12 points less, I'm being ridiculous.

 

Yeah, some of you are really sharp I'd say.

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This is so ironic.

 

Hilarious that's all u have to say.

 

You're the one that said that smart guy.

 

Done talkin to u and ure overreacting crybaby routine.

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You do remember how the Pau Gasol experiment worked out, right? You don't give that kind of money to a guy who isn't a bonafide #1 option in a small market like Memphis. Do that with Rudy and we will go down the same path we went down a few years ago.

 

 

 

Agreed, max money spent here has to be 100% correct or it could really bite us again. Rudy is havin a great year but it's hard to just forget about the lack of focus and defense over the past three TWENTY WIN seasons. If he was the man then and 24 wins was the best he could do that should raise some eyebrows. I love this "new" Rudy but not at the expense of having to gut the team. Keeping Rudy would be awesome but if we snagged Ronnie Brewer for the Laker pick and flipped Rudy (yeah yeah, insert any of the thousands of trade scenarios here) for Battier and Landry and 1st rounder we'd be getting a good front court player and a perimeter defender and a pick. Point is we could really use Gay's trade value to improve by landing two or three guys that can make a difference and add depth, kind of like we did with the Pau (Z-Bo, Marc, Arthur, ?Brewer?) trade to make this a team that could go past round one.

 

Reality is one of either Marc, Zach, Rudy, or O.J. will have to go, no way in heck you can have four players making 10million plus in Memphis, if a cap is 51(ish) million and you have 45-50 million in four players you better be puttin a trophy on a shelf yearly and sold out signs hangin on the Forum windows

 

This team is good, and it isn't just because of Rudy. We have a frontcourt right now that is insane and with a great shooter in O.J. and an improving point in Conley who can distribute this team is pretty solid. If the 15 million you save in not keeping Rudy with these four guys is spent wisely they could easily fill in the depth of a playoff team. We still have Young, Carroll, Thabeet, Arthur, Hudson, Haddaddi for cheap to go along with it all.

 

 

 

 

 

(p.s.- KBM, if Rudy cant win games because of trade rumors is that really the guy you want to give 15 per to? I would hope a max money guy can stay focused night in and night out)

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