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Hoopsworld.com "To be concerned list"

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It's good to see one of the most credible NBA sites on the web saw things the same way I did. Hoopsworld.com released their "to be concerned list" today and #1 on the list........... You got it, Hashame.......

 

 

Las Vegas Summer League play concluded on Sunday. Some players shined while others struggled to find their niche. Today HOOPSWORLD takes a look at some of the players who failed to meet expectations.

 

Hasheem Thabeet, Memphis Grizzlies

For most in attendance in Vegas, Thabeet was the biggest disappointment. His 8.2 points and 4.6 rebounds per game were okay. However, he often looked lost on the offensive end of the court getting the ball knocked out of his hands and even missing easy dunks around the rim. Perhaps most disappointing, Thabeet really wasn't that much of a factor defensively averaging just 0.8 blocked shots in 25 minutes of run. This was the one area where he was supposed to make an immediate impact. In Thabeet's defense, he was an honest self-evaluator throughout the week and voiced a desire to get better. That said, it could take some time for him to really become an impact player in Memphis.

 

 

 

A #2 pick should be mentioned on the Summer League 1st team or at least 2nd team. I'd even take an Honorable Mention. Instead he's #1 on the "to be concerned list".... Hopefully this will put to rest any discussion that the Griz didn't make a terrible decision.

 

 

I was extremely impressed with the rest of the team though and beleive that Sam and Demarre will both improve our depth and make an immediate impact if needed. Defensively our 2nd team has a chance to really frustrate teams and wear them down with the energy they're going to bring night in night out. It'd be awesome if our #2 pick could bring the same energy, aggressiveness, and productivity but he just doesn't have it in him and it's something you can't teach.

 

The 1st team with the addition of Big Zack is going to be an extremely difficult unit to stop. We now have 3 guys that will make the opposition have to pick their poison on who they want to double to try and stop us. Also, with the way Mike can break down the defense with his dribble drive and the way he was shooting from outside gives us another weapon that will open things up. If Marc can just continue to be the leader and continue to play his rough and rugged style we have a starting 5 that can be very dangerous!! I expect the Griz to be right in the thick of things down the stretch fighting for that 8th spot.

 

I've got a few ideas that if we could somehow pull off may put us over the top:

 

Flip Murray: Flip is what I like to call a 2 for 1er... He can backup Mike at the point and OJ at the 2 giving Sam an opportunity to play more SF where IMO he'd be a little more comfortable. He really impressed me in this years playoffs and that's a big reason why I'd like to acquire him. We need guys with playoff experience!!! It's crucial to have any success once we get there because it's a TOTALLY new ball game. He would bring that as well as veteran leadership throughout the season. He's a guy that isn't scared to take the big shot and is capable of pouring in 30 on any given night while directing the team. He's a poor man's Chauncey Billups IMO with the way he's calm, poised, vocal, and has ice water in his veins in clutch situations. He is the ideal backup for Mike but could also be on the court with him at the same time. The question is does anyone know if he's still available??????

 

Marcus Williams: I was impressed with him more than anyone on the Summer League. He's got unbelievable vision and court awareness and takes care of the ball just as good as Mike. His shot could use major improvement but where he's lacking there he makes up for in his ability to get to the rim and finish or get to the line where he's an excellent FT shooter. Even if we were to get Flip or say an Anthony Carter I still think he could be a 3rd option and can be had for the minimum. We can either go into the season with 2 PG's and when one goes down go scrambling for a backup OR we can have Marcus sitting there waiting. We need to snag him now before someone else does.

 

Travis Outlaw: I'm hearing he can be had for practically nothing. So, why isn't he in a Griz uniform by now??? Send them our 2010 Lakers pick and call it a deal because your not going to get anybody at 28th-30th in next years 1st round that has the ability to be your starting SF and put up 18 and 8 like he can. He averaged 13.3ppg 4.6rpg in just 27mins in 07-08 so if he was given starter minutes like Rudy he'd put up the same production.

 

If we could add those 3 guys your looking at a 45-50 win team. You could bring Sam and Demarre along at a slower pace and let them develop rather than throwing them into the fire and expecting them to contribute. Having too much talent and depth is a good problem to have so I wouldn't concern myself with what player is already at what position. Competition makes teams better and let the best man win the spot. I think Flip would really add the vet leadership and quality minutes we need and Travis would push Rudy and make him get better. These moves would round out our 15 man roster making us 3 deep at every position plus 3 or 4 guys that can play multiple positions

 

Conley/Flip/Marcus

OJ/Sam/Jaric

Rudy/Outlaw/Demarre ====== 2009 PLAYOFFS!!!!

Zack/Hak/Darrell

Marc/Haddadi/Thabeet

 

 

GO GRIZZ!!!

 

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I've got a few ideas that if we could somehow pull off may put us over the top:

 

Flip Murray: Flip is what I like to call a 2 for 1er... He can backup Mike at the point and OJ at the 2 giving Sam an opportunity to play more SF where IMO he'd be a little more comfortable. He really impressed me in this years playoffs and that's a big reason why I'd like to acquire him. We need guys with playoff experience!!! It's crucial to have any success once we get there because it's a TOTALLY new ball game. He would bring that as well as veteran leadership throughout the season. He's a guy that isn't scared to take the big shot and is capable of pouring in 30 on any given night while directing the team. He's a poor man's Chauncey Billups IMO with the way he's calm, poised, vocal, and has ice water in his veins in clutch situations. He is the ideal backup for Mike but could also be on the court with him at the same time. The question is does anyone know if he's still available??????

 

Marcus Williams: I was impressed with him more than anyone on the Summer League. He's got unbelievable vision and court awareness and takes care of the ball just as good as Mike. His shot could use major improvement but where he's lacking there he makes up for in his ability to get to the rim and finish or get to the line where he's an excellent FT shooter. Even if we were to get Flip or say an Anthony Carter I still think he could be a 3rd option and can be had for the minimum. We can either go into the season with 2 PG's and when one goes down go scrambling for a backup OR we can have Marcus sitting there waiting. We need to snag him now before someone else does.

 

Travis Outlaw: I'm hearing he can be had for practically nothing. So, why isn't he in a Griz uniform by now??? Send them our 2010 Lakers pick and call it a deal because your not going to get anybody at 28th-30th in next years 1st round that has the ability to be your starting SF and put up 18 and 8 like he can. He averaged 13.3ppg 4.6rpg in just 27mins in 07-08 so if he was given starter minutes like Rudy he'd put up the same production.

 

If we could add those 3 guys your looking at a 45-50 win team. You could bring Sam and Demarre along at a slower pace and let them develop rather than throwing them into the fire and expecting them to contribute. Having too much talent and depth is a good problem to have so I wouldn't concern myself with what player is already at what position. Competition makes teams better and let the best man win the spot. I think Flip would really add the vet leadership and quality minutes we need and Travis would push Rudy and make him get better. These moves would round out our 15 man roster making us 3 deep at every position plus 3 or 4 guys that can play multiple positions

 

Conley/Flip/Marcus

OJ/Sam/Jaric

Rudy/Outlaw/Demarre ====== 2009 PLAYOFFS!!!!

Zack/Hak/Darrell

Marc/Haddadi/Thabeet

 

 

GO GRIZZ!!!

Flip would be great, but if we acquired him i feel like we'd still need a 3 pt shooter off the bench, cause he definitely does not fill that void.

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Flip would be great, but if we acquired him i feel like we'd still need a 3 pt shooter off the bench, cause he definitely does not fill that void.

 

 

I can agree with that.... We definitely do need a pure sharp shooter. Flip(39% from 3pt 07-08) can definitely get hot from outside but I'm assuming your talking about a player more in the mold of a Korver/Reddick/Kapono correct??? I agree we definitely missed Mike and Juan Carlos last year. Outlaw shot 38% from 3pt in the reg. season last year so adding the 2 doesn't necessarily improve our shooting but they are decent and capable of knocking down the 3. They both have that playoff experience which we DESPERATELY need and that's what really intrigues me. If I'm not mistaken they'd be the only 2 on the team with post-season experience because Marco's never been.

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I can agree with that.... We definitely do need a pure sharp shooter. Flip(39% from 3pt 07-08) can definitely get hot from outside but I'm assuming your talking about a player more in the mold of a Korver/Reddick/Kapono correct??? I agree we definitely missed Mike and Juan Carlos last year. Outlaw shot 38% from 3pt in the reg. season last year so adding the 2 doesn't necessarily improve our shooting but they are decent and capable of knocking down the 3. They both have that playoff experience which we DESPERATELY need and that's what really intrigues me. If I'm not mistaken they'd be the only 2 on the team with post-season experience because Marco's never been.

Oh well 39% is good. On the site i looked at it said he shot 36% from 3-pt, which is actually worse than marco

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Oh well 39% is good. On the site i looked at it said he shot 36% from 3-pt, which is actually worse than marco

 

Your right he did shoot 36% last year... 07-08 he shot 39% which was his career best.

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He's got a long way to go, but let's be real, he's only #1 on the "to be concerned" list because he was the second pick and was the object of very high expectations. If he were the 12th pick or 22nd pick he wouldn't be on that list.

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He's got a long way to go, but let's be real, he's only #1 on the "to be concerned" list because he was the second pick and was the object of very high expectations. If he were the 12th pick or 22nd pick he wouldn't be on that list.

 

 

Your exactly right and that's my point........ People that argue and try and say that we made the right pick are in denial or don't know basketball. He should have been the 12th or 22nd pick to a team that can afford to take a chance if they want. You don't take a chance with a #2 pick, you take the best player available regardless of position. There is nothing anybody can say to me that will convince me that Chris Wallace thought Hashame was the 2nd best talent in the draft. It was Heisley's decision and a terrible one at that. I believe that he pays Chris Wallace to take the heat for his decisions not to use his basketball knowledge to draft and acquire players. I heard CW on 560 a number of times leading up to the draft and although he didn't come out and say it it was totally obvious that he was enamored with TYREKE. If Heisley would have let his P.O.B do his job then we would have Tyreke. Of course that's my opinion and I could be wrong but I've heard CW talk basketball and he knows the game and knows how to evaluate talent and I don't believe for 1 second that he made the call on Thabeet. But, he had to act like it at the press conference to cover Heisley's *** in case he turns out to be a flop which he will.

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And I can't believe those stupid Texans took Mario Williams (BUST) over Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart and Vince Young...

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I heard CW on 560 a number of times leading up to the draft and although he didn't come out and say it it was totally obvious that he was enamored with TYREKE. If Heisley would have let his P.O.B do his job then we would have Tyreke. Of course that's my opinion and I could be wrong but I've heard CW talk basketball and he knows the game and knows how to evaluate talent and I don't believe for 1 second that he made the call on Thabeet. But, he had to act like it at the press conference to cover Heisley's *** in case he turns out to be a flop which he will.

And Tyreke barely shot 40% from the field in SL, and his team sucked, so what is your point?

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He's got a long way to go, but let's be real, he's only #1 on the "to be concerned" list because he was the second pick and was the object of very high expectations. If he were the 12th pick or 22nd pick he wouldn't be on that list.

 

Thats whats ******* everyone off. He was the 2nd overall pick. Now if we had the the 12th pick like you said thats fine for a project. But you don't take a project center with Strotential at number 2, you just don't. I'm not a Thabeet hater nor supporter, but man you have to draw the line somewhere. Horrible pick at this point but I'll still support. Go Grizz!

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Thats whats ******* everyone off. He was the 2nd overall pick. Now if we had the the 12th pick like you said thats fine for a project. But you don't take a project center with Strotential at number 2, you just don't. I'm not a Thabeet hater nor supporter, but man you have to draw the line somewhere. Horrible pick at this point but I'll still support. Go Grizz!

 

Yeah that's basically where I'm at. I was yelling at the top of my lungs at the TV when we drafted Thabeet. But we have him now and I'm hoping and praying that I'll end up being dead wrong about the kid.

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And Tyreke barely shot 40% from the field in SL, and his team sucked, so what is your point?

 

 

My point is Tyreke should have been taken #2 since he was the 2nd best talent and I feel that our P.O.B. felt like he was the 2nd best talent and was overrided by the owner. Decisions such as these lead to franchises never getting out of the cellar and making it more about politics than the game of basketball. I may be totally off base but it sure seems like Wallace isn't being able to do his job by making personnell decisions and that the owner is which is flat out stupid. Is he paying him to take the heat for his decisions or is he paying him to make basketball moves? If you honestly can say that you prefer Thabeet over a Tyreke, Harden, or Rubio then that's your opinion. I just don't see how if you watched any of the games this Summer League that you could possibly feel that way. Tyreke had NOTHING to do with his team sucking and he was here and had our supporting cast he would have gone 5-0 too. You have to capitalize on opportunities like getting a #2 pick and we absolutely blew it. That's my point....... I don't have to wait and see or give the guy a chance, I know garbage when I see it... But, the offseason as a whole I believe has been a huge success when you look at what we were 3 months ago and what we are now. Hopefully were not done yet either. It just would have been that much sweeter with Tyreke in the fold IMO.....

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Check out the Dysfunctional thread that was just posted!!!! It basically justifies everything I just said before this post about Wallace not getting to do his job... I seriously was just stating my opinion and what it seemed like to me I didn't know for a fact that it was indeed what was really going on. Crazy...... This is why we'll never be championship contenders because the basketball guys are'nt getting to make the basketball decisions. The owner is supposed to finance everything not make the personnell decisions. I just knew the Thabeet pick wasn't Wallace's decision. Thanks alot Mike!!!!!!!

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This was just posted on Hoopsworld in an article about the Blazers offseason:

 

While a back-up power forward and point guard were the two areas the Blazers needed to improve on the most at the start of the offseason, Portland continues to be in the market for a small forward – this even with the return of Martell Webster and maturation of Nicolas Batum. As for Travis Outlaw, he remains expendable.

 

 

What are we waiting on??? I'd even send them Rudy if they threw in their Rudy to give us our shooter.... I believe if Outlaw played 38 mins he could put up Rudys numbers if not better.....

 

Rudy Gay

 

FOR

 

Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez

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In an interview with a local news station Thabeet agreed that he should have played better. He said he was trying to get accustomed to the 3sec. rule and that he rushed many of his offensive possesions.

 

I bet he plays much better in preseason than he did in summer league.

 

 

Rudy Gay

 

FOR

 

Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez

 

Why in the world does everyone keep trying to trade Rudy?

He led the team in scoring and stayed productive despite OJ's great rookie season. He even tried to improve on defense late last year by guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player. He was even invited to play with the olympic team to play. He has some nice pieces around him now lets see what he can do.

 

Rudy Gay>>>>>>>>Travis Outlaw

 

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In an interview with a local news station Thabeet agreed that he should have played better. He said he was trying to get accustomed to the 3sec. rule and that he rushed many of his offensive possesions.

 

Great. He's sweating the 3 second rule on offensive possessions. That's EXACTLY what he needs to be working on, isn't it?

 

I could care less about his offense. We didn't draft him for his offense.

 

As for what I expect out of his first year, I don't care if he averages 2 points a game. He'd better be nearing double digit rebounds from day one. We got him for his rebounding and shot blocking and his supposed intimidation factor down low. If he's that much of a "generational talent" (and that's our organization's words) then we should see it right away.

 

The kid can be raw. Heck, he can be raw for a couple of years. But raw and soft is BS. I hope Z-bo and Gasol give him the knickname "pinball" in practice and beat some toughness into him.

 

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In other words, you're content with Darko 2.0.

 

I'm content with a Darko 2.0 as long as the team has about the same number of wins and losses this season.

 

I am willing to bet any amount that there won't be many, if any, games that are lost by the Grizz this season because Thabeet or Haddadi played poorly against some other teams backup center.

 

The biggest hole that needed to be filled in the off-season was the 4. Whether or not you agree with the ZBO acquisition - you can't deny that he is a much better player than anyone that the team could have drafted to fill that need.

 

The FO knew that they were drafting somebody that would not need to be a starter any time soon. They are gambling that he will be a force in the league or at least an above average center in the next year or two. They have a perfectly capable center in Marc to do all of the heavy lifting for at least 2 more years.

 

All of the draft picks and moves conducted over the last two months should be judged collectively rather than individually to fairly analyze the situation.

 

Key losses- Darko, Ross, Buck, Darius, 3 cash considerations

 

PG- No change

SG-No change

SF-No change

PF-Huge upgrade

C-No change

 

Bench-Improved offense and defense (Potentially)

 

Coach-No change

 

I think the bottom line is that the team was improved on paper and we won’t know if the #2 draft decision was a complete failure or good choice until mid-season or the end of the year.

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I'm content with a Darko 2.0 as long as the team has about the same number of wins and losses this season.

 

I am willing to bet any amount that there won't be many, if any, games that are lost by the Grizz this season because Thabeet or Haddadi played poorly against some other teams backup center.

 

The biggest hole that needed to be filled in the off-season was the 4. Whether or not you agree with the ZBO acquisition - you can't deny that he is a much better player than anyone that the team could have drafted to fill that need.

 

The FO knew that they were drafting somebody that would not need to be a starter any time soon. They are gambling that he will be a force in the league or at least an above average center in the next year or two. They have a perfectly capable center in Marc to do all of the heavy lifting for at least 2 more years.

 

All of the draft picks and moves conducted over the last two months should be judged collectively rather than individually to fairly analyze the situation.

 

Key losses- Darko, Ross, Buck, Darius, 3 cash considerations

 

PG- No change

SG-No change

SF-No change

PF-Huge upgrade

C-No change

 

Bench-Improved offense and defense (Potentially)

 

Coach-No change

 

I think the bottom line is that the team was improved on paper and we won’t know if the #2 draft decision was a complete failure or good choice until mid-season or the end of the year.

 

I've backed off my initial resistance to the Randolph trade in hopes that he will somehow learn to play defense and kick the ball out of double teams rather than just "get his" and cannabalize production from other players. But if he reverts to his "me myself and I" routine, which has been his calling card his entire career, then I will be even more fiercefully opposed to the trade than I was in the first place. But in any case, I've decided to let Zach prove that he can change his ways before I condemn the trade further.

 

Regarding the #2 pick, note the key words I bolded above--they gambled on Thabeet. Gambled in the sense that people gamble their paychecks in Tunica--they know it's probably a losing proposition, but the lure of huge potential gains is too much for them to exercise common sense and stay away. I'm fine with gambling with a mid-1st round pick, but if you've got the #2 pick then you can't afford to take huge risks with a project because it almost never pans out. It's especially critical for a franchise like Memphis (where free agency is not a preferred route for building a team) to make a #2 pick count and take a player that gives them the highest likelihood of being a solid contributor. But with the entire basketball world and 90% of fans on this board telling Heisley he was a fool for considering Thabeet with that pick, he went ahead and took him anyway. Unless Thabeet gets a heart transplant between now and the regular season, he has no chance of being a force in this league (let alone a "generational talent"), and that's a crippling mistake for a franchise that can't afford any.

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I'm fine with gambling with a mid-1st round pick, but if you've got the #2 pick then you can't afford to take huge risks with a project because it almost never pans out. It's especially critical for a franchise like Memphis (where free agency is not a preferred route for building a team) to make a #2 pick count and take a player that gives them the highest likelihood of being a solid contributor. But with the entire basketball world and 90% of fans on this board telling Heisley he was a fool for considering Thabeet with that pick, he went ahead and took him anyway. Unless Thabeet gets a heart transplant between now and the regular season, he has no chance of being a force in this league (let alone a "generational talent"), and that's a crippling mistake for a franchise that can't afford any.

 

hands_clapping_lg_clr.gif

 

 

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In other words, you're content with Darko 2.0.

 

dont let stats get in your way, but darko's rookie season numbers:

 

Career Season Averages

 

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

03-04 DET 34 0 4.7 0.262 0.000 0.583 0.3 0.9 1.3 0.2 0.2 0.4 0.38 1.00 1.4

04-05 DET 37 2 6.9 0.329 0.000 0.708 0.1 1.1 1.2 0.2 0.1 0.5 0.43 0.80 1.8

05-06 DET 25 0 5.6 0.515 0.000 0.375 0.4 0.7 1.1 0.4 0.1 0.6 0.60 1.00 1.5

05-06 ORL 30 1 20.9 0.507 0.000 0.595 1.1 3.0 4.1 1.1 0.4 2.1 1.20 2.20 7.6

06-07 ORL 80 16 23.9 0.454 0.000 0.613 1.8 3.7 5.5 1.1 0.6 1.8 1.55 2.70 8.0

07-08 MEM 70 64 23.8 0.438 0.000 0.554 1.8 4.2 6.1 0.8 0.5 1.6 1.44 2.60 7.2

08-09 MEM 61 15 17.0 0.515 0.000 0.562 1.4 3.0 4.3 0.6 0.4 0.8 0.79 2.20 5.5

Career -- 337 98 17.2 0.454 0.000 0.588 1.2 2.8 4.0 0.7 0.4 1.2 1.05 2.10 5.5

 

Like I said, dont let facts getin the way of your hatred for Thabeet, but if he avgs 7 pts and 5 boards his rookie year he would be far past Darko 2.0.

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Regarding the #2 pick, note the key words I bolded above--they gambled on Thabeet. Gambled in the sense that people gamble their paychecks in Tunica--they know it's probably a losing proposition, but the lure of huge potential gains is too much for them to exercise common sense and stay away. I'm fine with gambling with a mid-1st round pick, but if you've got the #2 pick then you can't afford to take huge risks with a project because it almost never pans out. It's especially critical for a franchise like Memphis (where free agency is not a preferred route for building a team) to make a #2 pick count and take a player that gives them the highest likelihood of being a solid contributor.

The same thing can be said in reverse, Memphis NEEDS to gamble on picks like this and not just take somebody who will be a for sure nice player off the bench, rather they need to aim for the stars b/c they will never get one through FA, rather, they can probably add solid bench players through FA before they will add a star.

 

 

But with the entire basketball world and 90% of fans on this board telling Heisley he was a fool for considering Thabeet with that pick, he went ahead and took him anyway. Unless Thabeet gets a heart transplant between now and the regular season, he has no chance of being a force in this league (let alone a "generational talent"), and that's a crippling mistake for a franchise that can't afford any.

 

 

 

 

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