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Lord Gordon

Chris Vernon

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I encouraged everyone to go and listen to Chris' show from today (dec 12). He perfectly expressed all of the frustration people who live this team feel. He went in on everyone, front office included.

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8-19, next to last in the West, and now he says something? Kind of easy to be finger pointing now, isn't it?

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So funny listening to the reactionaries when some of us has been screaming for years.

This is the product of "letting it play out." Years of torture to follow.  Deal with it.

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a few of us have been trying to point this out for years . CW sucks at valuing assets  , years of giving up too much in trades , getting to little in trades and letting guys walk for nothing . 

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He's complaining that the team would never lay down like they did last night if Zbo and Tony were still here.

I guess he doesn't remember us getting beat by 50.

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Vernon was pretty on point for most of it...but he was always a huge Joerger fanboy I believe, so everything started reverting back to that.

He's definitely right in how stupid it was to buy into a coaches plans 110% and then dismiss him 12 games into the season to leave that plan to someone else.. I mean it's just one of the many moronic things Wallace has done. Hardly even stands out in his resumè.

He definitely was ripping Marc hard about his post game comments being all talk but then said it's Pau Gasol's brother who already desensitized him to that? Hmm, maybe.

Not sure I agree completely on needing to keep signing 'Grizzly' players like Matt Barnes and such.. That began to wear thin but it's easy to feel that way when no one on the team cares much. I would definitely take grinders over this, but a happy medium would be best.

 

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Vernon  is right about saying the team doesn't care anymore. Why anyone would pay to watch these chumps is mind boggling.

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Biggest point of them all is what I've preached since Fiz was let go, and Vernon touched on it. Fiz won 43 games his first year. Wallace had a year's worth of data to analyze what the team should do moving forward. He dove head first into moving toward Fiz ball. And then bailed on it after 19 games. 

The result of the way this team is managed is a train wreck. 

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1 hour ago, IdrinkGuinness said:

a few of us have been trying to point this out for years . CW sucks at valuing assets  , years of giving up too much in trades , getting to little in trades and letting guys walk for nothing . 

Yeah, but when you point it out after the grizzlies go to the WCF it kinda seems a bit, I don't know, strange. 

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7 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

Biggest point of them all is what I've preached since Fiz was let go, and Vernon touched on it. Fiz won 43 games his first year. Wallace had a year's worth of data to analyze what the team should do moving forward. He dove head first into moving toward Fiz ball. And then bailed on it after 19 games. 

The result of the way this team is managed is a train wreck. 

The grizzlies from the allstar break last year till this year were way under .500. Point being fizz was hired to change a culture that didn't need changing.

And you can look at this all you want and misrepresent it, but the fact is when you bench your star to try to get a win or whatever you are trying to do, your system ain't working. Fizz's system was stupid and it took less than a year and a half to figure it out. 

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1 hour ago, Thomas said:

He's complaining that the team would never lay down like they did last night if Zbo and Tony were still here.

I guess he doesn't remember us getting beat by 50.

Zbo would have head butted guys, and Tony would have demolished the lockers in the dressing room.

If I remember right, didn't we have a team meeting after that GSW loss?

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17 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Yeah, but when you point it out after the grizzlies go to the WCF it kinda seems a bit, I don't know, strange. 

that's  about the time we started  going all in and put very little effort into any type of future . we also sucked at the draft when it could have been our best way to improve .

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35 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

Biggest point of them all is what I've preached since Fiz was let go, and Vernon touched on it. Fiz won 43 games his first year. Wallace had a year's worth of data to analyze what the team should do moving forward. He dove head first into moving toward Fiz ball. And then bailed on it after 19 games. 

The result of the way this team is managed is a train wreck. 

I agree with your end remark, and the stupidity of the decision making process, but I got that Vernon was roasting Fiz for ditching the identity and culture, and vet players.....and Wallace let that happen, but then Wallace flip flopped. So Wallace is worse out of this

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I think the culture change had more to do with Mike and Marc taking the reigns. And moving away from Zbo and TA having them. It's not working. Time to clean house and start over. 

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1 hour ago, Thomas said:

He's complaining that the team would never lay down like they did last night if Zbo and Tony were still here.

I guess he doesn't remember us getting beat by 50.

Then 30+ the following game.   Selective Amnesia at its finest.   the guys started losing to losing teams more and more the last 3 seasons. 

 

1 hour ago, Memfizz said:

He's definitely right in how stupid it was to buy into a coaches plans 110% and then dismiss him 12 games into the season to leave that plan to someone else.. I mean it's just one of the many moronic things Wallace has done. Hardly even stands out in his resumè.

He definitely was ripping Marc hard about his post game comments being all talk but then said it's Pau Gasol's brother who already desensitized him to that? Hmm, maybe.

 I have not shed a tear over fizdales departure because quite frankly he wasn't here long enough for me to get that attached.    What i have shed a tear about is that the dude who did what you described is still in charge.    I also shed another tear because the entire point of hiring fiz was to attempt to create a new culture, develop young talent, and change to a more modern style.   

Firing Fiz to me represented that the FO now wants to reverse on that promise.  Which is incredibly stupid because you shaped the roster in a way where reverting isn't possible.    This reeks of a rudderless ship that is stuck in the bermuda triangle.   That is what is so frustrating. 

I don't think Vernon criticized Gasol enough.  My biggest problem is that if you Aint the type of dude that carries a team (which vernon emphasized) then you need to quit throwing everyone under the bus for not meeting the expectations you don't even meet.   I am more angry with him over his attitude than his play.   If you are gonna get a coach fired and complain about  scheme and defense or whatever then you need to BRING it.  At least lead by EXAMPLE.    Vernon also verified what i said about the locker-room, which is half those guys are ticked at Marc.    That CCCC is part of the reason why chemistry has been on short supply.   

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Totally forgot the biggest insight Vernon probably dropped was that Gasol sat 5 SEATS away from any teammates when he sat in the 4th and he claims it's because the players know/think he got the coach fired the way he did.

 

The biggest mistake Vernon made in the podcast though was hands down not asking Alexis Morgan to come with him when he was leaving.  Idiot.

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2 minutes ago, tjazz22 said:

I think the culture change had more to do with Mike and Marc taking the reigns. And moving away from Zbo and TA having them. It's not working. Time to clean house and start over. 

I see your point. 

Keep in mind that Pera had that dinner with Mike and Marc 5 seasons ago - Rudy, Zbo and TA were not invited.  The plan was always to hand the reigns over to them and this is the culmination of that.    People need to realize that Marc and Mike were fully aware and onboard with moving on from Zbo and TA.    They were not blindsided.   Remember Mike made a DEMAND that they add a dynamic wing before he resigned - and Wallace went out and got Parsons.   Yall don't think team wouldve given Tony a minimum deal if Mike or Marc spoke up?  Don't kid yourselves  No such demands were made this offseason in regards to keeping Tony or Zbo from them.   

Some of You all are giving Fiz waayyy too much power (not you tjazz).   He was the lowest paid coach in the entire NBA and a rookie who was FORCED to play Parsons all last season.   Got literally FIRED for trying to motivate his best player to give 100 (coaches bench star players for poor performance all the time).   Yet ya'll think this dude now has the power to get everyone removed and bring in all the FA he wants.  LOL    All Fiz could do is talk he may have had some influence from the standpoint of what he envisioned system should be.   But FO made all the big boy decisions and now that it isn't working they want to blame it on the coach. 

 

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2 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I see your point. 

Keep in mind that Pera had that dinner with Mike and Marc 5 seasons ago - Rudy, Zbo and TA were not invited.  The plan was always to hand the reigns over to them and this is the culmination of that.    People need to realize that Marc and Mike were fully aware and onboard with moving on from Zbo and TA.    They were not blindsided.   Remember Mike made a DEMAND that they add a dynamic wing before he resigned - and Wallace went out and got Parsons.   Yall don't think team wouldve given Tony a minimum deal if Mike or Marc spoke up?  Don't kid yourselves  No such demands were made this offseason in regards to keeping Tony or Zbo from them.   

Some of You all are giving Fiz waayyy too much power (not you tjazz).   He was the lowest paid coach in the entire NBA and a rookie who was FORCED to play Parsons all last season.   Got literally FIRED for trying to motivate his best player to give 100 (coaches bench star players for poor performance all the time).   Yet ya'll think this dude now has the power to get everyone removed and bring in all the FA he wants.  LOL    All Fiz could do is talk he may have had some influence from the standpoint of what he envisioned system should be.   But FO made all the big boy decisions and now that it isn't working they want to blame it on the coach. 

 

I get your conclusion and that's right, the bottom line is this is ALL on Wallace.

How you arrived at your conclusion, I'm not so conviced about. How do we know Marc and Mike didn't  want Zbo to return? I dont believe it. I think your overestimating the influence Marc has. And even if he went along with it, doesnt mean he agreed or liked the decision. Tony to a much lesser extent.

As Vernon said, these guys are just not wired the way we are wanting. Same goes for Conley. The sooner we all come to terms with that, the sooner we will be at peace

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Fizdale's system and visioned worked 100% and gave us our second peak since grit and grind WCF appearance imo... When and if everyone bought in.  Which was a big if on the Marc, Zbo, Tony side (in that order). When they all bought in, we were darn near elite.  It was really **** hard to stop our inside outside attack with Gasol stretching the floor when needed.

Taking the Spurs to 6 was no joke and if what everyone was constantly moaning about came true, Marc kept playing like Conley-less Marc, I believe we could have gotten back to WCF.

Marc for whatever reason, beating a dead horse now, wanted to be 3rd wheel and not assertive lead.  At that point Fizdale was pointless, still fired prematurely, but his vision doesn't work without an assertive Gasol since everyone fed off that.

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Then 30+ the following game.   Selective Amnesia at its finest.   the guys started losing to losing teams more and more the last 3 seasons. 

 

 I have not shed a tear over fizdales departure because quite frankly he wasn't here long enough for me to get that attached.    What i have shed a tear about is that the dude who did what you described is still in charge.    I also shed another tear because the entire point of hiring fiz was to attempt to create a new culture, develop young talent, and change to a more modern style.   

Firing Fiz to me represented that the FO now wants to reverse on that promise.  Which is incredibly stupid because you shaped the roster in a way where reverting isn't possible.    This reeks of a rudderless ship that is stuck in the bermuda triangle.   That is what is so frustrating. 

I don't think Vernon criticized Gasol enough.  My biggest problem is that if you Aint the type of dude that carries a team (which vernon emphasized) then you need to quit throwing everyone under the bus for not meeting the expectations you don't even meet.   I am more angry with him over his attitude than his play.   If you are gonna get a coach fired and complain about  scheme and defense or whatever then you need to BRING it.  At least lead by EXAMPLE.    Vernon also verified what i said about the locker-room, which is half those guys are ticked at Marc.    That CCCC is part of the reason why chemistry has been on short supply.   

The flaw in thinking we should change to a "more modern" style is that the teams that are successful at playing that way have already cornered the market on all the best players in that style.  The only thing we can do in that regard is field a second rate team.  The way you can compete with them is by doing something very different, playing a style which takes them way out of their comfort zone.  The style we played was our advantage, because the other teams didn't like it.  That's why I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on pace.  When we forced teams to play at our slow pace most of the league couldn't handle it.

I really don't care what style we play as long as we win, but trying to play like the Warriors or Rockets is stupid.  We need to do something different.  If other teams generally want to play slow, we should force them to play fast.  If they want to finesse, we should play bruising, tough basketball.  If they want to run we should slow it down.  Teams that play generally the same style as most of the other teams in the league don't have any team identity.  We desperately need an identity right now, not trying to be "more modern".  Honestly, I don't see anything modern about it.  Teams have played that way in the past, though I don't think they shot it from as deep in the old days.

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16 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I see your point. 

Keep in mind that Pera had that dinner with Mike and Marc 5 seasons ago - Rudy, Zbo and TA were not invited.  The plan was always to hand the reigns over to them and this is the culmination of that.    People need to realize that Marc and Mike were fully aware and onboard with moving on from Zbo and TA.    They were not blindsided.   Remember Mike made a DEMAND that they add a dynamic wing before he resigned - and Wallace went out and got Parsons.   Yall don't think team wouldve given Tony a minimum deal if Mike or Marc spoke up?  Don't kid yourselves  No such demands were made this offseason in regards to keeping Tony or Zbo from them.   

Some of You all are giving Fiz waayyy too much power (not you tjazz).   He was the lowest paid coach in the entire NBA and a rookie who was FORCED to play Parsons all last season.   Got literally FIRED for trying to motivate his best player to give 100 (coaches bench star players for poor performance all the time).   Yet ya'll think this dude now has the power to get everyone removed and bring in all the FA he wants.  LOL    All Fiz could do is talk he may have had some influence from the standpoint of what he envisioned system should be.   But FO made all the big boy decisions and now that it isn't working they want to blame it on the coach. 

 

They wanted Marc and Mike to lead the way. Add a wing and see what they do. They hired the coach they felt could lead that charge. He fit the city, has the connections, but didn't vibe with Gasol. The mistake he made (unknowingly) was riding Gasol. Marc aint built like that. He's used to having "Dawgs". Mike and Marc had career years under him. But...hey

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7 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

The flaw in thinking we should change to a "more modern" style is that the teams that are successful at playing that way have already cornered the market on all the best players in that style.  The only thing we can do in that regard is field a second rate team.  The way you can compete with them is by doing something very different, playing a style which takes them way out of their comfort zone.  The style we played was our advantage, because the other teams didn't like it.  That's why I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on pace.  When we forced teams to play at our slow pace most of the league couldn't handle it.

I really don't care what style we play as long as we win, but trying to play like the Warriors or Rockets is stupid.  We need to do something different.  If other teams generally want to play slow, we should force them to play fast.  If they want to finesse, we should play bruising, tough basketball.  If they want to run we should slow it down.  Teams that play generally the same style as most of the other teams in the league don't have any team identity.  We desperately need an identity right now, not trying to be "more modern".  Honestly, I don't see anything modern about it.  Teams have played that way in the past, though I don't think they shot it from as deep in the old days.

I don't understand why some of ya'll think getting into the offense quicker AKA "playing with a faster pace" is a recipe for disaster.    We can be a power team and still play with pace.   

However, the part that made getting into the offense quicker darn near impossible is that the two biggest slowest dudes on the team - were the two guys the offense ran thru.    So Mike had to wait on them to get into position before he could even START the offense.   Also when you play at a slower pace and go straight halfcourt sets it makes it easier for the opposing defenses to set up against you.     Then if you still want to score in that proposition then you better have multiple guys that can create their own shots and surround them with shooters.    

Our recipe for success was not sustainable all those first round exits should have been the biggest clue.  Anytime teams took away the paint we had no plan B.     Due to the makeup of our team - it was hard to develop a plan B.    Our style of play was not attractive to wing scorers and quite frankly did nothing but hurt them.     This was another underrated aspect to why we never got premier free agents.  Tayshaun said on Vernon show that playing alongside Zbo and Gasol took him out of his offensive comfort zone.  HE had to change to fit with them.    If Tayshuan said that then what do ya'll think the rest of the league was saying.    We had TWO dynamic wings (Rudy and OJ) on the roster at beginning of GNG and we kept neither of them because of their fit with the CORE4.   NBA players notice that. 

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