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New_Sacred_Cow

Minnesota @ Memphis 12/04/17

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8 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

That's a good argument but not the one my quote was referring to at all. 

 

This is that comment. Clearly LTG was making the point that Fizdale should have known better than to play his veteran PG because he was going to screw up. Hence my response. 

The team's problems were never based solely on the makeup of the team for me. It was the high likelihood that the team's core pieces (Conley, Gasol, Parsons, Evans, Wright, Chalmers) were injury risks and not be able to compete without breaking down. After that core the pieces were questionable at best with Ennis, McLemore, Selden, Harrison, Martin and Davis being the primary backups. When you combine injury risks and shaky inexperienced players you have a recipe for disaster.

That is why I don't blame Fizdale for the mess the team found themselves in. 

Honestly I missed on Brooks being as solid as he has been to start the season and I have been pleasantly surprised by Rabb's play in the D-League. I am not proclaiming some incredible foresight. The problems with the roster was known before the season for those willing to be honest. If you closed your eyes and predicted that injuries wouldn't happen and the inexperienced players would all mature into excellent players then I suppose you could point a finger at the Head Coach and blame him for the losing streak. 

And I am not a big fan of Fizdale's. His biggest weakness was too much experimentation with lineups and keeping players unsure of their roles from game to game which hurt chemistry. That plus his lack of skill or ability at drawing up plays coming out of timeouts and motivating players at halftime earned him his early exit.   

You predicted the same last year and Marc stayed healthy the entire year and Mike only missed 11 games at the beginning of the season. However despite Mike being out, this team should not have lost to the teams they lost 2, giving up 20 point leads after 20 point leads.

My problem with your foresight shtick is that only the bottom line is every truly right. Last year the grizzlies were barely a .500 team, not due to injuries but to teams chemistry and rookie coaching.

This year, the grizzlies have routinely given up 20 point leads to lose games, and then it just snowballed from there. Also, beyond that, you said that a lot of fizz's problem was poorly-contracted team, rather than injuries. So you are being disingenuous, playing both sides against the middle. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Is your position Fizdale should have known his veteran PG would make some bonehead plays in the final minutes? 

20/20 hindsight at its best!

Yeah, he'd been chucking 3s all night and hadn't hit a single 1.

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25 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Yeah, he'd been chucking 3s all night and hadn't hit a single 1.

So easy to say this after the game after you know what happened. It’s not so easy when you look down the bench and only see Harrison sitting there.

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29 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You predicted the same last year and Marc stayed healthy the entire year and Mike only missed 11 games at the beginning of the season. However despite Mike being out, this team should not have lost to the teams they lost 2, giving up 20 point leads after 20 point leads.

My problem with your foresight shtick is that only the bottom line is every truly right. Last year the grizzlies were barely a .500 team, not due to injuries but to teams chemistry and rookie coaching.

This year, the grizzlies have routinely given up 20 point leads to lose games, and then it just snowballed from there. Also, beyond that, you said that a lot of fizz's problem was poorly-contracted team, rather than injuries. So you are being disingenuous, playing both sides against the middle. 

My problem with your Shtick is is changes daily. I prefer to be correct on the bottom line than completely wrong about everything.

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

My problem with your Shtick is is changes daily. I prefer to be correct on the bottom line than completely wrong about everything.

You changed your opinion in the same page of a thread. Is it poor-constructed teams or injuries? 

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5 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You changed your opinion in the same page of a thread. Is it poor-constructed teams or injuries? 

Yes! 

As I said before the season began, the problem is the team’s construction which included veterans with injury histories combined with inexperienced players who lack talent. I predicted the team would struggle this season because the team was put together poorly.

That’s why I predicted 38 wins and missing the playoffs. I doubt that will be exact but it’s a lot more likely than your idealistic hopes for the team. 

The team’s makeup isn’t the coach’s fault but Fizdale didn’t help himself by his actions as coach. Basically he left the door open which Wallace pushed him out of. No one could win consistently with this lineup but it didn’t have to be this bad either. Bottom line is until Wallace is gone and we have a GM with vision who is respected around the league this team will continue to struggle.

 

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42 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

So easy to say this after the game after you know what happened. It’s not so easy when you look down the bench and only see Harrison sitting there.

I think Harrison proved himself in the playoffs last year. Fiz could've at least told Chalmers to shut down his 3 attempts.  They had other players shooting them much better than he was. That shows a lack of faith in the other players on the court which I don't see.

If you look, Gasol was 10-14 and Tyreke was 13-20, why was a guy who was 3-12 shooting so much? Harrison was a starter too in that game and he was 4-8.

Could it have been because he was 1 of his guys from Miami?

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39 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Yes! 

As I said before the season began, the problem is the team’s construction which included veterans with injury histories combined with inexperienced players who lack talent. I predicted the team would struggle this season because the team was put together poorly.

That’s why I predicted 38 wins and missing the playoffs. I doubt that will be exact but it’s a lot more likely than your idealistic hopes for the team. 

The team’s makeup isn’t the coach’s fault but Fizdale didn’t help himself by his actions as coach. Basically he left the door open which Wallace pushed him out of. No one could win consistently with this lineup but it didn’t have to be this bad either. Bottom line is until Wallace is gone and we have a GM with vision who is respected around the league this team will continue to struggle.

 

Here the thing. First, of the players with injury histories: Tyreke (missed no games), Chalmers (missed 1 game), Marc, (missed no games), Parsons [missed 2 games, and rest]), Brandan Wright was playing 14 minutes a game and Davis has been more than capable to take his spot. I guess you could technically say that Ben Mac fits your profile, but the grizzlies were deep at the wing position to begin with: brooks, Tyreke, ennis to name a few. The grizzlies did not have to start a rookie to cover Ben's minutes, so you were again wrong there.

Ironically, the player that hurt us the most was Jamychal, who had not had an injury history before the season and it was a fluke ankle turn that cost him games, which could have happened to anybody.

Next, you claim the team was poorly-constructed due to all of the players with injury histories, but fail to realize that the grizzlies had about 8 million to spend on free agents. Name me how we could have done better with the free agent money we had to spend? By my estimation we got extreme value/ And when you have that little of money, you probably going to have to make compromises somewhere, but regardless of that the grizzlies got value from the money they spent.

Of course the biggest problem the grizzlies have had is Mike Conley being out. He more than anybody meets both of your supposed assumptions. Had injury history and no backup. But again, the grizzlies tried to address that last year when they drafted Wade Baldwin. When Wade became a bust, and Mike got hurt, we had a problem.

But again: fizz had enough talent, for enough games, not to tank the season. He remains the common problem in all of this.

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Giving Ben McLemore was a clear waste of money this summer as was signing Rade only to release him before game 1. 

The real problem is why was the team in the position? Chandler Parsons had a decent game tonight but his contract demands more and that was a terrible signing at the time and for the year and a half since. 

But as you pointed out, the team has had bad luck combined with expected outages of players. It’s not one player getting hurt for extended times. It’s the totality of all the players missing little times each.

Teams will always have unforeseen injuries over 82 game sbut the likelihood of more injuries go up every game. The Grizzlies are a quarter of the way thru the season and already minor nicks and bumps are adding up. As the dog days kick in and the players bodies get more and more tired these are likely to increase. You have to understand this obvious truth. 

I hope you are right. I’ve consistently stated this. It’s just that I’ve watched the NBA a long time and the chances grow every game of more injuries. Stocking a team with numerous players known to be injury prone is a recipe for disaster. Missing on first round draft picks and relying on 2nd round picks and I drafted players to back the starters up (and in some cases starting themselves) is a recipe for disaster. 

The Front Office did both. 

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35 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Giving Ben McLemore was a clear waste of money this summer as was signing Rade only to release him before game 1. 

The real problem is why was the team in the position? Chandler Parsons had a decent game tonight but his contract demands more and that was a terrible signing at the time and for the year and a half since. 

But as you pointed out, the team has had bad luck combined with expected outages of players. It’s not one player getting hurt for extended times. It’s the totality of all the players missing little times each.

Teams will always have unforeseen injuries over 82 game sbut the likelihood of more injuries go up every game. The Grizzlies are a quarter of the way thru the season and already minor nicks and bumps are adding up. As the dog days kick in and the players bodies get more and more tired these are likely to increase. You have to understand this obvious truth. 

I hope you are right. I’ve consistently stated this. It’s just that I’ve watched the NBA a long time and the chances grow every game of more injuries. Stocking a team with numerous players known to be injury prone is a recipe for disaster. Missing on first round draft picks and relying on 2nd round picks and I drafted players to back the starters up (and in some cases starting themselves) is a recipe for disaster. 

The Front Office did both. 

Nobody denies that Parsons was the problem, but here's another thing. I was one of the few vocal against signing him. I wanted the grizzlies to spread the money around and I wanted Jeremy Lin on the team. Nearly everybody else was pretty happy that we signed him.

My point now is that why cry over spilled milk. Make the best of it. Parsons could be a key player in getting rid of Tyreke.

I was also against getting Tyreke, Chalmers and Ben. Everybody else creamed their jeans when we got chalmers and Reke. But again, now that we got them we need to make the best of it. The only problem is that Tyreke is the worst kind of player because he is selfish at the wrong times, and other than Parsons and maybe chalmers nobody on this team knows how to execute in winning time. So it is the Tyreke show.

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You just asked me what the team was supposed to do. I gave you an answer (not sign McLemore) and mentioned that the team’s financial problems were created the year before with the Chandler signing. 

I realize you are desperate for someone to say you are right. So you are right. The team wasn’t built poorly. The previous injuries with the veterans clearly should have no impact on how people view the future. The poor drafts and desperate attempts at making late picks and free agents shouldn’t affect the dream that they will all reach unforeseen highlights. You were right and I was wrong despite the records showing otherwise.

Are you happy now?

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You just asked me what the team was supposed to do. I gave you an answer (not sign McLemore) and mentioned that the team’s financial problems were created the year before with the Chandler signing. 

I realize you are desperate for someone to say you are right. So you are right. The team wasn’t built poorly. The previous injuries with the veterans clearly should have no impact on how people view the future. The poor drafts and desperate attempts at making late picks and free agents shouldn’t affect the dream that they will all reach unforeseen highlights. You were right and I was wrong despite the records showing otherwise.

Are you happy now?

No I asked you what could we have gotten better than those guys with the amount of money we had? I also said that people (this means YOU) weren't up in arms about Parsons, Ben or Reke when they got signed. Hindsight is 20/20.

Again, my entire claim about you is that you are wrong about just about everything BUT the record and you want to use the record as some great insight that you have or to prove how level headed you are.

I'm just pointing out that hardly anything you said about why the grizzlies struggle, is why they are struggling.

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11 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

No I asked you what could we have gotten better than those guys with the amount of money we had? I also said that people (this means YOU) weren't up in arms about Parsons, Ben or Reke when they got signed. Hindsight is 20/20.

Again, my entire claim about you is that you are wrong about just about everything BUT the record and you want to use the record as some great insight that you have or to prove how level headed you are.

I'm just pointing out that hardly anything you said about why the grizzlies struggle, is why they are struggling.

I wasn't up in arms about Parsons? I thought he was was a bad signing but (like so many times) I said I hope I am wrong and that he works out. What else could I do after we signed him??? Better get your facts straight before accusing people of things they didn't say. 

Also I am not using my predicting the season totals right as anything other than a prediction of what I think the final record will be.

You attack everyone who disagrees with you maliciously and YOU ARE NEVER EVEN CLOSE ON YOUR PREDICTIONS. Instead of trying to pick a fight with someone because their predictions are closer to reality. Why don't you just admit you were completely wrong again and be done with it. And in the future try to settle down and be polite to other people's opinion instead of going out of your way to insult everyone. Maybe you'd get more respect from posters that way.  

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