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Minnesota @ Memphis 12/04/17

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36 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I dont think Harrison is that much better so I dont know what you are talking about. He was bad earlier this year because he isnt a 2 guard. He isnt good off the ball exclusively and he isnt great defending them because they are the same size as him so he cant use his size in the same way. He is playing about the same as he did last year with maybe some minor improvements because he is playing his true position again and he isnt a rookie anymore. He uses his size defending pgs well, playing off the ball, sagging into the lane, switching pnr plays at times and boxing out the big man. Its his strength.

Bango (Pete Pranica voice)! 

I actually think he is solid guarding SG too, SF are the only ones i think he struggles with.

  I think his struggles on offense he lets affect him on defense too.   Whenever he comes out of the gate with a positive contribution on either side of court- it seems to fuel his confidence.     Ennis and Harrison seem to be the guys that have to feel confident before making positive contributions.  

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54 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Your changing your mind is not crazy unfortunately. It is your normal mode of operation. 

This gets old guys. We've gone from give the youngsters a chance, to they suck get them off the court, to the alternative sucks so what are we going to do, to Harrison is back in, is the coach crazy to Harrison is the best option.

 

No one with eyes can accuse any Grizz coach (this season) of not giving young guys chances or minutes.      Dillon Brooks(a 2d rd rookie) freaking STARTS!    He alone kills any notion that coaching staff are not serious about developing youth.  

We have a team FULL of young guys so by default young guys will play.   This is not the same type of roster that was under Hollins or Joerger.    Marc is the oldest dude on the team.  

IMHO the idea is to determine which young guy(s) or worthy of development and focus on them.   Not simply just play ALL the young guys every game regardless of their potential or growth.   Hopefully by end of month the staff will have enough real game (not practice) data to determine which guys fit going forward. 

 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

No one with eyes can accuse any Grizz coach (this season) of not giving young guys chances or minutes.      Dillon Brooks(a 2d rd rookie) freaking STARTS!    He alone kills any notion that coaching staff are not serious about developing youth.  

We have a team FULL of young guys so by default young guys will play.   This is not the same type of roster that was under Hollins or Joerger.    Marc is the oldest dude on the team.  

IMHO the idea is to determine which young guy(s) or worthy of development and focus on them.   Not simply just play ALL the young guys every game regardless of their potential or growth.   Hopefully by end of month the staff will have enough real game (not practice) data to determine which guys fit going forward. 

 

I wasn't talking about the coaches giving young players chances. I was talking about people on the boards not giving them chances. If you re-read my original comments and change coaches to posters it might make more sense to you. 

I do find it humorous that you support giving young guys chances per Fizdale's orders in the off-season when the vets were sent packing, after it cost Fizdale his job because the team isn't playing at the level expected of them.

I have never supported playing players based solely on their age. I want the team to win games. If it costs wins to play young, unqualified players in real games instead of developing them first, see how they perform given opportunity and give them more minutes if they deserve them then it is not something I support.

I prefer to give younger players limited minutes, let them earn greater playing time and continue to win games in the process. I know that is old school and unfair to the fragile egos of these young players but it is also a proven recipe for success. 

I think Brooks is a fine example of a player earning his minutes in training camp, pre-season and summer league, taking advantage of opportunity when Selden and McLemore were injured and working his way into the starting lineup. He was not given the starting role. He worked hard to earn his way into that role and when Selden and Conley return he will have to continue to earn his minutes as well.

Selden will have to earn minutes once he returns also. McLemore is an example of someone not earning his minutes and being given a starting role despite his terrible play. He was given a contract, given a starting role and hurts the team when he is on the court. But he is young so I suppose you support him getting minutes.  

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I wasn't talking about the coaches giving young players chances. I was talking about people on the boards not giving them chances. If you re-read my original comments and change coaches to posters it might make more sense to you. 

ok gotcha.  

But you do seem to be oversimplifying the Harrison - Chalmers situation complaints for the sake of your argument.

Harrison is in second year and was absolutely terrible in the role he was given beginning of the season.   His terrible play was affecting the team.   There may be room for growth for him due to his age but he isn't a high ceiling player.  His contract extends past this season.  Once more players came back from injury there became better options at starting 2G spot. 

Chalmers is a vet coming off serious injury that had experience on his side.   Initially that was enough but as his role expanded his effectiveness cratered.  His injury has proven to have affected his ability more than realized before resigning him.   He is on a 1 year deal.  Evidence is mounting that he may be done as an effective NBA player. 

 

When looking at full situation it is perfectly reasonable for fans to call for Harrison to be removed from Starting lineup.   It is also perfectly reasonable for fans to call for benching of Chalmers once he proved to be ineffective as well.     

You would have a point about patience IF Harrison was the only young player on roster.    A team can afford to play one ineffective or developing player when  team is surrounded by an overall effective roster.   But not a team that is already developing a player (Brooks) and playing youth (martin and DD) and surrounded by limited (Parsons) or ineffective (Rio and Ben) guys IF the team isn't tanking. 

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14 hours ago, Dwash said:

Chalmers simply should be waived for Kobi or some other gleague scoring machine. They dont seem to be hard to find these days.

I can say bye to Wright too. He isnt bad but he has no future with Memphis, stays hurt, is very thin and gets pushed around at times and isnt better than Davis.

You really think there are scoring machines laying around in the GLeaague? It's the GLeague man, it isn't the NBA. Chalmers has become a burden on the team though. I do think Kobi should have a shot at taking his place before they cut Chalmers loose though. Maybe that would get him to get his head straightened out.

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

ok gotcha.  

But you do seem to be oversimplifying the Harrison - Chalmers situation complaints for the sake of your argument.

Harrison is in second year and was absolutely terrible in the role he was given beginning of the season.   His terrible play was affecting the team.   There may be room for growth for him due to his age but he isn't a high ceiling player.  His contract extends past this season.  Once more players came back from injury there became better options at starting 2G spot. 

Chalmers is a vet coming off serious injury that had experience on his side.   Initially that was enough but as his role expanded his effectiveness cratered.  His injury has proven to have affected his ability more than realized before resigning him.   He is on a 1 year deal.  Evidence is mounting that he may be done as an effective NBA player. 

 

When looking at full situation it is perfectly reasonable for fans to call for Harrison to be removed from Starting lineup.   It is also perfectly reasonable for fans to call for benching of Chalmers once he proved to be ineffective as well.     

You would have a point about patience IF Harrison was the only young player on roster.    A team can afford to play one ineffective or developing player when  team is surrounded by an overall effective roster.   But not a team that is already developing a player (Brooks) and playing youth (martin and DD) and surrounded by limited (Parsons) or ineffective (Rio and Ben) guys IF the team isn't tanking. 

How did Harrison improve while he was sitting at the end of the bench? Perhaps he was working on the weaknesses in his game so he wouldn't look terrible the next time he got an opportunity? 

Perhaps sitting Chalmers will help him work on his weaknesses as well despite him being a veteran. Then again, I would have thought you would have preferred Baldwin be given an opportunity over a 30 year old who has been out of the league for over a year returning from an Achilles injury that I said would never allow him to get back to the player he once was. That would at least be consistent on your part. 

And now more rotation changes and players having to adapt to those lineup issues while the team struggles continue. Sounds like a wonderful plan. 

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10 hours ago, The Stro Show said:

lol I came home expecting a lot more from this thread. 3 pages. Go Grizz! Reke and Gasol is an interesting duo. Wonder how Conley can fit in when he comes back.

Be nice if they could get someone to take that 30M off their books. 3 of the last 4 games makes me think the Grizz have gotten their mo jo going again, wondering what getting MC back will do to that.

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9 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

I agree with you.

My frustration with JaM is that he CAN be dominant in the post and on the boards AND has a decent outside shot, no doubt. But he seems to go MIA during games, or for stretches of games.

I really want him to succeed but CONSISTENCY needs to be written on his mirror in the dressing room.

A lot of that is because the other guys don't get the ball to him. PF don't have the opportunity to do what they want to, it's dependent on other players.

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

How did Harrison improve while he was sitting at the end of the bench? Perhaps he was working on the weaknesses in his game so he wouldn't look terrible the next time he got an opportunity? 

I think Harrison improvement comes from minimized role and change of position.   He was developed last season as the backup PG and showed some improvement there.   This year was the first time he has lined up at SG in his professional career.    Hindsight 20/20 but Fiz moving him to a different role at a different position actually set him up for failure. 

 So really shouldn't be surprising to us that he is more productive playing the role and position that he had most experience with.  Kudos to JB for making that move. 

Broadcast team has said numerous times that team hasn't had many practices. So highly unlikely Harrison had many opportunities to improve during this losing streak. 

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13 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

To me Jmyke looks posed to be a breakout player. I could see him becoming a paul milsap tyke.  

Good example; Millsap took a while to get past "role player"

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50 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Harrison improvement comes from minimized role and change of position.   He was developed last season as the backup PG and showed some improvement there.   This year was the first time he has lined up at SG in his professional career.    Hindsight 20/20 but Fiz moving him to a different role at a different position actually set him up for failure. 

 So really shouldn't be surprising to us that he is more productive playing the role and position that he had most experience with.  Kudos to JB for making that move. 

Broadcast team has said numerous times that team hasn't had many practices. So highly unlikely Harrison had many opportunities to improve during this losing streak. 

Practices have increased since Fizdale was forced out. Team has had days off between games and Bickerstaff wanted to change a few things. 

Harrison returning to PG has helped somewhat. However the team is playing more of a 2 combo guard set right now instead of a traditional PG/SG set up. Among Chalmers, Tyreke, Harrison and McLemore the only truly traditional guard is McLemore and he stinks as a SG and is losing minutes every game.  

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Jeez you guys are fickle.  The amount of emphasising you put on two games is ridiculous. When will ya'll learn.

We started this year on fire.. We were top contenders in some eyes.  We lose 10 games, it's all Fizdale (yet the successful start wasn't).. we're the worst team ever.  Fire Fizdale, play better for two games and we're good again, Bickerstaff is this great coach.

 

 

*In before next meltdown of season and fans with pitchforks again.*

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5 hours ago, Memfizz said:

Jeez you guys are fickle.  The amount of emphasising you put on two games is ridiculous. When will ya'll learn.

We started this year on fire.. We were top contenders in some eyes.  We lose 10 games, it's all Fizdale (yet the successful start wasn't).. we're the worst team ever.  Fire Fizdale, play better for two games and we're good again, Bickerstaff is this great coach.

 

 

*In before next meltdown of season and fans with pitchforks again.*

Maybe instead of JB being a great  coach, Fiz wasn't nearly as good as you thought he was.

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1 hour ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Maybe instead of JB being a great  coach, Fiz wasn't nearly as good as you thought he was.

Maybe it had nothing to do with the coaching at all but a poorly constructed roster. Perhaps someone had to take the blame and Wallace threw Fizdale under the bus. 

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So the coach could start the 5 worst players on the team and let them play the most minutes and it wouldn't have anything to do with the coach. I know that would be a radical step but every substitution usually has an effect on the team, either good or bad and I say using McLemore like Fiz did, did more harm than good because he was lost on defense and his offense hasn't been that great. He should've waited till McLemore learned what he was supposed to do defense. I could see why 
Gasol was so peeved. It wasn't just they were getting beat, they were pathetic.

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2 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Maybe instead of JB being a great  coach, Fiz wasn't nearly as good as you thought he was.

Maybe it's been just two games.

Question for you - what do you make of the early hot start to the season? When we were taking it to Houston & every elite team?

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20 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

So the coach could start the 5 worst players on the team and let them play the most minutes and it wouldn't have anything to do with the coach. I know that would be a radical step but every substitution usually has an effect on the team, either good or bad and I say using McLemore like Fiz did, did more harm than good because he was lost on defense and his offense hasn't been that great. He should've waited till McLemore learned what he was supposed to do defense. I could see why 
Gasol was so peeved. It wasn't just they were getting beat, they were pathetic.

A coach can't lose 10 games straight for you.. Even if he tried. Grow up a little.

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11 hours ago, Memfizz said:

Maybe it's been just two games.

Question for you - what do you make of the early hot start to the season? When we were taking it to Houston & every elite team?

The only elite teams they played were Houston and Golden State. I really felt like the Grizz got the better of the calls against GS. He messed up the chemistry the Grizz had at the beginning of the year. He kept playing McLemore even though it was very evident that McLemore was completely lost on defense. Gasol even said, 1 day Jarell was starting and then he's in the G League, now he is back in the rotation again.

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11 hours ago, Memfizz said:

A coach can't lose 10 games straight for you.. Even if he tried. Grow up a little.

Did he not leave Mario in the line up against Orlando and was he not the reason the Grizz lost?

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2 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Did he not leave Mario in the line up against Orlando and was he not the reason the Grizz lost?

Is your position Fizdale should have known his veteran PG would make some bonehead plays in the final minutes? 

20/20 hindsight at its best!

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14 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Maybe it had nothing to do with the coaching at all but a poorly constructed roster. Perhaps someone had to take the blame and Wallace threw Fizdale under the bus. 

The roster is not poorly-constructed. The grizzlies have the makings of being great, in my opinion, but they need more time to jell. Plus, Wallace got Tyreke for pennies which has been the best value of any free agent acquisition this year.

Fizz didn't know how to use what he had: when you bench Marc, you clearly don't know. 

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2 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Did he not leave Mario in the line up against Orlando and was he not the reason the Grizz lost?

All 10 games there child?

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Is your position Fizdale should have known his veteran PG would make some bonehead plays in the final minutes? 

20/20 hindsight at its best!

I think the position is that the grizzlies, despite what you think, this collection of players weren't inevitably, perpetually, predestined to lose.

Y'all need to grow up if the solution you think will solve everything is just getting rid of the players we have.

When Frank Vogel took over for Jim Obrien there was an immediate change of culture. You think Butler would have ever won anything without having Brad Stevens? Brad Stevens never got 1 5 star recruit and it didn't matter. Conversely, Josh Pasnter got top recruit after top recruit and did nothing with it.

Fizdale did not get the best out of his players and teams were killing him with schemes, game after game.  

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16 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I think the position is that the grizzlies, despite what you think, this collection of players weren't inevitably, perpetually, predestined to lose.

Y'all need to grow up if the solution you think will solve everything is just getting rid of the players we have.

When Frank Vogel took over for Jim Obrien there was an immediate change of culture. You think Butler would have ever won anything without having Brad Stevens? Brad Stevens never got 1 5 star recruit and it didn't matter. Conversely, Josh Pasnter got top recruit after top recruit and did nothing with it.

Fizdale did not get the best out of his players and teams were killing him with schemes, game after game.  

That's a good argument but not the one my quote was referring to at all. 

 

3 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Did he not leave Mario in the line up against Orlando and was he not the reason the Grizz lost?

This is that comment. Clearly LTG was making the point that Fizdale should have known better than to play his veteran PG because he was going to screw up. Hence my response. 

The team's problems were never based solely on the makeup of the team for me. It was the high likelihood that the team's core pieces (Conley, Gasol, Parsons, Evans, Wright, Chalmers) were injury risks and not be able to compete without breaking down. After that core the pieces were questionable at best with Ennis, McLemore, Selden, Harrison, Martin and Davis being the primary backups. When you combine injury risks and shaky inexperienced players you have a recipe for disaster.

That is why I don't blame Fizdale for the mess the team found themselves in. 

Honestly I missed on Brooks being as solid as he has been to start the season and I have been pleasantly surprised by Rabb's play in the D-League. I am not proclaiming some incredible foresight. The problems with the roster was known before the season for those willing to be honest. If you closed your eyes and predicted that injuries wouldn't happen and the inexperienced players would all mature into excellent players then I suppose you could point a finger at the Head Coach and blame him for the losing streak. 

And I am not a big fan of Fizdale's. His biggest weakness was too much experimentation with lineups and keeping players unsure of their roles from game to game which hurt chemistry. That plus his lack of skill or ability at drawing up plays coming out of timeouts and motivating players at halftime earned him his early exit.   

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