Thomas

Fan starts peition to get Chris Wallace fired

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12 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I think Thabeet is worse than those moves.  Thabeet is the worst #2 pick of the two (Thabeet v Bowie).  Yes, Bowie had a better player drafted after him (actually quite a few great players after him), at least Bowie played over 500 games.  

 

And Oden's failures were primarily health related, not talent.  And most the NBA draft community had Oden ahead of Durant (except for this board, which is still batting 100% on draft talent evaluation), there wasn't a great consensus that Thabeet would be good and contribute. 

 

There were so many warning signs on Thabeet, and with Gasol on the roster, the pick was worse (IMO).

 

 

Thabeet was just dumb.  I watched the guy play basketball in college.  There is no WAY someone watched this guy play and thought he was the 2nd best prospect in that draft.  If they DID then fire their butts because they are incompetent.

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On 12/5/2017 at 9:52 PM, chipc3 said:

When he was on the pre-season roster I didn't see those issues at all. He tore it up here during the pre-season and many people wanted him to remain over players with guaranteed deals. 

Now in previous seasons those comments were true but he clearly worked himself into shape before coming to Memphis and he was ready to make up for his first few years as a bust. Getting playing time on a bad team helped too of course. There is no guarantee he would have gotten those minutes behind Gasol. Especially with Kosta Koufos backing up Gasol at the time. 

People forget that Whiteside was toiling in the D-League after not playing in the NBA for over two seasons before Memphis gave him his shot. After he was released he spent another month in the D-League before Miami gave him his shot.  

The hype he got from social media and 2K helped bigtime.

He was getting away with more contact than ever.

Before January that time, he was getting called for a lot of fouls.

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1 hour ago, Gradey said:

Thabeet was just dumb.  I watched the guy play basketball in college.  There is no WAY someone watched this guy play and thought he was the 2nd best prospect in that draft.  If they DID then fire their butts because they are incompetent.

Have you guys seen him play recently?

He played for the Philippines sometime this year and boy calling it atrocious is an understatement.

I really wonder what they saw in him, he's really really bad.

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16 hours ago, f-dizzle said:

But we can agree Thabeet was the worst move ever. Not drafting Bowie over Jordan level, not Oden over Durant level. But we could have had Harden, Damar, or Curry. 

Sam Bowie might have made 1 of the best big men in the game had he not gotten hurt. The only other 7 footer I had ever seen dribble the ball between his legs was Wilt Chamberlain when he was at Kansas.

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I'm down to fire CW just so that he isn't the one that makes our inevitable Top 10 pick in this year's draft ("stealth" tank has been engaged :ph34r:)

Could end up with another Josh Selby, Xavier Henry, Wade Baldwin. Who from this class was a top highschool prospect but has sucked in college? Wallace will pick that guy.

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55 minutes ago, Zappastache said:

I'm down to fire CW just so that he isn't the one that makes our inevitable Top 10 pick in this year's draft ("stealth" tank has been engaged :ph34r:)

Could end up with another Josh Selby, Xavier Henry, Wade Baldwin. Who from this class was a top highschool prospect but has sucked in college? Wallace will pick that guy.

That is what is so terrifying about this entire season and makes it difficult to go all in for a tank job.  

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That is what is so terrifying about this entire season and makes it difficult to go all in for a tank job.  

This from the man who has been begging the team to tank for years while Chris Wallace sits in the same position. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

This from the man who has been begging the team to tank for years while Chris Wallace sits in the same position. 

You have me confused with other posters.   I have never begged team to tank.   I begged for team to break up the CORE4 because the ceiling had been reached and they were declining.     

You assumed breaking up the CORE4 and tanking were the same thing.  I never thought they were the same. 

My proposal was for them to trade Zbo and TA for real NBA players or assets (not barely rotational guys like CW has done) and use that to build a new foundation with Mike and Marc.

 

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9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

You have me confused with other posters.   I have never begged team to tank.   I begged for team to break up the CORE4 because the ceiling had been reached and they were declining.     

You assumed breaking up the CORE4 and tanking were the same thing.  I never thought they were the same. 

My proposal was for them to trade Zbo and TA for real NBA players or assets (not barely rotational guys like CW has done) and use that to build a new foundation with Mike and Marc.

 

You have begged the team not to make the playoffs instead of working to reach them under Joerger at LEAST twice. I can go back and find the threads and your comments if you prefer but I hope you will admit you said it and we don't have to go that route. 

If I'm not mistaken just this year, after Fizdale was fired, you wrote that you hope that Wallace wouldn't make some moves to try and reach the playoffs. Isn't that tantamount to tanking if you don't want the team to make the playoffs? 

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You have begged the team not to make the playoffs instead of working to reach them under Joerger at LEAST twice. I can go back and find the threads and your comments if you prefer but I hope you will admit you said it and we don't have to go that route. 

If I'm not mistaken just this year, after Fizdale was fired, you wrote that you hope that Wallace wouldn't make some moves to try and reach the playoffs. Isn't that tantamount to tanking if you don't want the team to make the playoffs? 

Aren't you the guy running around here preaching the Gospel of how CW is horrible and needs to be fired?     

You are leaving off very important context in your recalling of my statements (as always).   We are currently sitting at 5th worst team in the league; which means we are already tanking.   I was afraid CW would make drastic moves (like mortgaging our future AGAIN) just to scrape into the playoffs.   Which is what i said.      

Joerger situation was when Gasol was injured and we dropped a lot of games and were Out of Playoffs.    

i have never BEGGED for team to not make the playoffs.  I just evaluate the situation as it is and make judgement based on that.   CW has consistently made short-term moves to keep the streak alive that hurt us in the long-term.  I am against that. 

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Aren't you the guy running around here preaching the Gospel of how CW is horrible and needs to be fired?     

You are leaving off very important context in your recalling of my statements (as always).   We are currently sitting at 5th worst team in the league; which means we are already tanking.   I was afraid CW would make drastic moves (like mortgaging our future AGAIN) just to scrape into the playoffs.   Which is what i said.      

Joerger situation was when Gasol was injured and we dropped a lot of games and were Out of Playoffs.    

i have never BEGGED for team to not make the playoffs.  I just evaluate the situation as it is and make judgement based on that.   CW has consistently made short-term moves to keep the streak alive that hurt us in the long-term.  I am against that. 

Joerger situation was before and after the injuries but if you want to deny you have stated numerous times that you wanted the team to tank and then turn around and defend when you said the team would tank that is your perogative. Just understand that admitting you said the team should tank at one time (and you were passionate about it at the time which I said was begging but if you prefer some other term that is fine) does negate you saying you "never" said the team should tank.

That was all I was saying. Context doesn't come into play. If you said it then it was said no matter what the context. 

And yes I have been saying for a few years now that Wallace should be fired. I stand by that call. I want a new GM who will have a vision of what he wants the team to look like, will be respected around the league and won't waste draft picks. Is that asking for too much??? 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Joerger situation was before and after the injuries but if you want to deny you have stated numerous times that you wanted the team to tank and then turn around and defend when you said the team would tank that is your perogative. Just understand that admitting you said the team should tank at one time (and you were passionate about it at the time which I said was begging but if you prefer some other term that is fine) does negate you saying you "never" said the team should tank.

That was all I was saying. Context doesn't come into play. If you said it then it was said no matter what the context. 

And yes I have been saying for a few years now that Wallace should be fired. I stand by that call. I want a new GM who will have a vision of what he wants the team to look like, will be respected around the league and won't waste draft picks. Is that asking for too much??? 

Acknowledging the team is bad (which they were usually due to injury) and probably better off getting into the lottery is not the same thing as saying we should have a fire sale and tank.   

Other posters on here have been begging for team to tank for years (MemphisX comes to mind).   that has never been me.  

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Acknowledging the team is bad (which they were usually due to injury) and probably better off getting into the lottery is not the same thing as saying we should have a fire sale and tank.   

Other posters on here have been begging for team to tank for years (MemphisX comes to mind).   that has never been me.  

Fire sale and tank is an extreme version of tanking. Wanting the team to lose so they get in the lottery instead of reaching the playoffs is a milder form of tanking. Both involve wanting the team to lose so they don't reach their potential. I have never asked the team to be anything less than the best they can be. You have. Call it whatever you want to call it. The end result is the same. 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Fire sale and tank is an extreme version of tanking. Wanting the team to lose so they get in the lottery instead of reaching the playoffs is a milder form of tanking. Both involve wanting the team to lose so they don't reach their potential.

That's simply because you play the middle in all of your statements.   So you can go on a "i told you so" rampages on other posters. 

 

2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I have never asked the team to be anything less than the best they can be.

That's the most non-committal nothing statement i have ever read.  But it lines up with pretty much all of your statements.   

The only thing you have committed to (only recently at that) is that CW is a bad GM; but there is literally 10yrs of evidence on that so that's not ground breaking or anything. 

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GTF - Have you ever asked the team to be less than they could be? Have you ever wanted the coach to operate the team to lose games that were winnable so they could miss the playoffs and have Chris Wallace pick in the lottery instead of making the playoffs and have a shot at the title? 

You may consider this not endorsing tanking but if it looks like you are saying the team should tank, and it smells like you are saying the team should tank, then aren't you endorsing tanking? 

If that is true then you can't deny you have asked the team to tank in the last five years despite having Chris Wallace, who you now claim has 10 years of evidence as a bad GM (I would disagree with 10 years since he was the GM who acquired Conley, Gasol, Randolph and Allen and brought the team to 7 consecutive playoffs appearances but recent history has shown it to be true but that is a different issue). 

So I have one question: What's changed during the last few days or weeks that has taken you from being worried about the team making the playoffs and not getting a lottery pick to your most recent comment that you were concerned about being in the lottery and with Wallace in charge? 

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29 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

So I have one question: What's changed during the last few days or weeks that has taken you from being worried about the team making the playoffs and not getting a lottery pick to your most recent comment that you were concerned about being in the lottery and with Wallace in charge? 

Maybe because I watched them play (currently 5th worst record in league).  Maybe because they fired their Coach. Maybe because there top performer from last year is out from injury for indeterminable amount of time.  

I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but the last time there was this much chaos on roster (Ivaroni season) we ended up in the lottery. 

I don't understand why i can't acknowledge we are lottery bound AND be concerned about Wallace ability to make the pick at the same time.   Why is that an either or proposition to you?

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Maybe because I watched them play (currently 5th worst record in league).  Maybe because they fired their Coach. Maybe because there top performer from last year is out from injury for indeterminable amount of time.  

I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but the last time there was this much chaos on roster (Ivaroni season) we ended up in the lottery. 

I don't understand why i can't acknowledge we are lottery bound AND be concerned about Wallace ability to make the pick at the same time.   Why is that an either or proposition to you?

When you are scared the team is going to try and make the playoffs and scared that the team won't make the playoffs you have issues to resolve with being a fan. 

Me personally, I want to make the playoffs. I want the team to turn things around (I couldn't care less who is coaching to do it either). If they don't I want to win the lottery and will trust the FO won't screw it up again. Call it the law of averages. Eventually this FO will make the correct lottery pick. 

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On 12/5/2017 at 1:13 AM, Iron Mike said:

TBH I was able to watch the a few of his games prior his explosion in Miami, and it wasn't pretty. He looked raw, easily pushed around and got gassed very quick. Kudos to their coaching staff though.

Whiteside joined the Heat for the 2014-15 season. 
Same year Miami promoted coach Dave Fizdale to Associate Head Coach. 
Hmmm. 

 

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I think it is time to move on from Wallace, but I am not about to say all of his moves were bad. He has kept us in the playoffs for 7 straight years. They can't all be bad. The problem is we mortgaged the future to be a solid playoff team but not a contender. 

The bad (cause I am negative nancy and some people already listed the good):

Thabeet- it may have been Heisley's call, but if you aren't good enough to explain to him why it was a horrendous decision and talk him out of it, you aren't the man to lead the organization.

Drafting Xavier Henry- plenty of quality guys were taken after him including Eric Bledsoe and Avery Bradley

Trading a first round pick for one year rental Ronnie Brewer (regardless of the injury, it was a bad move). It was used to draft Donatas Montiejunas. Guys who were available with that pick include Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, and Isaiah Thomas. 

Trading Love for Mayo was bad. I was for it at the time, but that doesn't matter. I am not the GM. The GM's job is to foresee these things. 

Giving up on Demarre Carroll too early

Giving up on Whiteside too early

Drafting Tony Wroten over Draymond Green

Drafting Jordan Adams over Rodney Hood

Trading a first rounder to Cleveland so they would take some contracts off our hands. It was supposed to help improve the Rudy Gay deals. It didn't. Instead it became a debt that has handcuffed us. It finally conveyed this past year; Kings used it to draft Harry Giles. He has not played yet and is a huge question mark. Guys that were available at the slot that would have contributed to this team include Kyle Kuzma and OG Anunoby

Trading a first rounder for Jeff Green. I ripped it at the time as anyone with a decent basketball mind knew that every team he had ever played on had a better offensive rating and a better defensive rating when he was on the bench. That picked has yet to be conveyed, and I dread the thought of it being Otis Thorpe part 2.

Not knowing how injured Vince Carter was. I loved him here. He still wasn't a quality player here until his third year.

Not knowing how injured Chandler Parsons was. He's contributing now. I hope he continues to contribute. I do not see him playing at a max salary level ever again.

 

I know a lot of this hindsight. However, the GM's job is to accurately predict how these players will develop. No one is perfect at it. You still have to be better than Chris Wallace has been. 

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4 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

 

 

4 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Not knowing how injured Chandler Parsons was. He's contributing now. I hope he continues to contribute. I do not see him playing at a max salary level ever again.

 

I know a lot of this hindsight. However, the GM's job is to accurately predict how these players will develop. No one is perfect at it. You still have to be better than Chris Wallace has been. 

Why is it Cuban knew about Parsons, and we knew that Cuban knew (because he openly said it in the media) but we were stupid enough to do a max deal anyway?

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On 12/5/2017 at 7:06 PM, f-dizzle said:

But we can agree Thabeet was the worst move ever. Not drafting Bowie over Jordan level, not Oden over Durant level. But we could have had Harden, Damar, or Curry. 

Nope. Signing Parson and giving that ridiculous contract was by far the worst.

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5 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I think it is time to move on from Wallace, but I am not about to say all of his moves were bad. He has kept us in the playoffs for 7 straight years. They can't all be bad. The problem is we mortgaged the future to be a solid playoff team but not a contender. 

The bad (cause I am negative nancy and some people already listed the good):

Thabeet- it may have been Heisley's call, but if you aren't good enough to explain to him why it was a horrendous decision and talk him out of it, you aren't the man to lead the organization.

Drafting Xavier Henry- plenty of quality guys were taken after him including Eric Bledsoe and Avery Bradley

Trading a first round pick for one year rental Ronnie Brewer (regardless of the injury, it was a bad move). It was used to draft Donatas Montiejunas. Guys who were available with that pick include Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, and Isaiah Thomas. 

Trading Love for Mayo was bad. I was for it at the time, but that doesn't matter. I am not the GM. The GM's job is to foresee these things. 

Giving up on Demarre Carroll too early

Giving up on Whiteside too early

Drafting Tony Wroten over Draymond Green

Drafting Jordan Adams over Rodney Hood

Trading a first rounder to Cleveland so they would take some contracts off our hands. It was supposed to help improve the Rudy Gay deals. It didn't. Instead it became a debt that has handcuffed us. It finally conveyed this past year; Kings used it to draft Harry Giles. He has not played yet and is a huge question mark. Guys that were available at the slot that would have contributed to this team include Kyle Kuzma and OG Anunoby

Trading a first rounder for Jeff Green. I ripped it at the time as anyone with a decent basketball mind knew that every team he had ever played on had a better offensive rating and a better defensive rating when he was on the bench. That picked has yet to be conveyed, and I dread the thought of it being Otis Thorpe part 2.

Not knowing how injured Vince Carter was. I loved him here. He still wasn't a quality player here until his third year.

Not knowing how injured Chandler Parsons was. He's contributing now. I hope he continues to contribute. I do not see him playing at a max salary level ever again.

 

I know a lot of this hindsight. However, the GM's job is to accurately predict how these players will develop. No one is perfect at it. You still have to be better than Chris Wallace has been. 

Not Wallace on that Cleveland move.

You forgot Brandan Wright.

You also forgot giving up on Hasheem Thabeet too early.:lol:

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13 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

 

Why is it Cuban knew about Parsons, and we knew that Cuban knew (because he openly said it in the media) but we were stupid enough to do a max deal anyway?

Maybe I was just trying to give Wallace the benefit of the doubt by saying he didn't know when he should have. If he really did know, it's even worse.

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