Thomas

Fan starts peition to get Chris Wallace fired

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7 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

Wallace was the GM in place, but he did not draft Conley. He also did not choose Thabeet, I'II give him that.

 

He made ONE good trade his entire time here which brought Marc and allowed us to absorb ZBO's contract.

He signed one good contract, Tony Allen's.

 

Every other move has made him THE WORST GM in the league by a country mile.  

If you're talking about high impact moves, yes, but he has made small moves that weren't bad.

Juan-Carlos Navarro was pretty good get for a rookie giving us about 11ppg and was closing in on the 3-point rookie record, but of course no one was beating out KD for RoY.

Donte Greene for Darrell Arthur

Marreese Speights and Dante Cunningham were good moves under the circumstances.

Did he sign Ellington before Levien was brought in?  Didn't matter anyway since Levien traded him with Speights, Selby  and a 1st round pick for Jon Leuer.

Bayless for Lee was sort of a lateral move offensively, though I think it helped our defense.

Claiming Beno Udrih of waivers and getting James Johnson and JaMychal Green off the scrapheap weren't bad moves.

Everyone on these boards talks about how bad that the Love for Mayo move was, but I think they should shut up about it.  Everyone on these boards was excited about it and KBM was virtually the only poster saying it was a bad move.  Everyone else is just using hindsight, something even GMs don't have.

We could have drafted a bit better, though other than the #2 in '09 (not Wallace) and going flat on Xavier Henry at #12 we haven't really had any high picks.  Passing on Rodney Hood for Jordan Adams was a big miss (a miss that a lot of other teams missed as well), but maybe we can partly thank Hollinger (who some folks on these boards though was going to be a savior) for that.

The biggest issues to me have been trading away first round picks (not all of which he was responsible for) and signing hurt guys, especially Parsons and Wright.  Obviously he doesn't have a stellar record and maybe we could do better, but we could do worse as well, so I'll not be signing any emotional petition 

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This is reality. The Grizzlies have lost 11 consecutive games. If they lose tonight they would need to defeat New York on Wednesday to avoid tying the longest losing streak since moving to Memphis. That team fired Sydney Lowe and hired Hubie Brown around Thanksgiving. 

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In all honesty CW probably approaches his job for what it really is.  He likely sees it as a middling opportunity in the landscape of the NBA and although he would never admit it, probably does not honestly see it as a franchise that could really win a championship barring massive injuries to other teams and luck going their way.

He approaches the draft, free agency, and trades as patch jobs...the same way you would treat a used car to keep it going a little longer.  He's like a used car salesman.  So in that aspect, he's a good used car salesman who will never get another opportunity on the lot with the big boys, selling new cars.  He just patches up the used ones and makes them appear to be workable, or to last enough months to pass the warranty period.  CW is good enough but not great.

If the Grizzlies want the franchise to truly be great they will need a massive overhaul in the front office beginning with CW.

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22 minutes ago, Michael D said:

In all honesty CW probably approaches his job for what it really is.  He likely sees it as a middling opportunity in the landscape of the NBA and although he would never admit it, probably does not honestly see it as a franchise that could really win a championship barring massive injuries to other teams and luck going their way.

He approaches the draft, free agency, and trades as patch jobs...the same way you would treat a used car to keep it going a little longer.  He's like a used car salesman.  So in that aspect, he's a good used car salesman who will never get another opportunity on the lot with the big boys, selling new cars.  He just patches up the used ones and makes them appear to be workable, or to last enough months to pass the warranty period.  CW is good enough but not great.

If the Grizzlies want the franchise to truly be great they will need a massive overhaul in the front office beginning with CW.

Bad analogy with the used car sales thing. Most salesmen start out (in the 90s) selling new cars and move on to used cars once they start doing well because here is more money to be made in them. 

😆. Just a little bit of education there from an ex car salesman. 

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4 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

He'd do better if he could get 5K but I doubt that would have any influence on Pera.

yeah I know, I just think it's hilarious 

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You gotta remember 1 thing, depending on the draft, it might be possible that the picks the Grizz traded wouldn't have done as much as the person they got with the pick. Something think about there.

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8 hours ago, chipc3 said:

You don't like Dillon Brooks or Ivan Rabb? You don't believe Tyreke was a good signing? JaMychal Green wasn't a nice find? 

Man this crowd is getting tough. 

 

7 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

If you're talking about high impact moves, yes, but he has made small moves that weren't bad.

Juan-Carlos Navarro was pretty good get for a rookie giving us about 11ppg and was closing in on the 3-point rookie record, but of course no one was beating out KD for RoY.

Donte Greene for Darrell Arthur

Marreese Speights and Dante Cunningham were good moves under the circumstances.

Did he sign Ellington before Levien was brought in?  Didn't matter anyway since Levien traded him with Speights, Selby  and a 1st round pick for Jon Leuer.

Bayless for Lee was sort of a lateral move offensively, though I think it helped our defense.

Claiming Beno Udrih of waivers and getting James Johnson and JaMychal Green off the scrapheap weren't bad moves.

Everyone on these boards talks about how bad that the Love for Mayo move was, but I think they should shut up about it.  Everyone on these boards was excited about it and KBM was virtually the only poster saying it was a bad move.  Everyone else is just using hindsight, something even GMs don't have.

We could have drafted a bit better, though other than the #2 in '09 (not Wallace) and going flat on Xavier Henry at #12 we haven't really had any high picks.  Passing on Rodney Hood for Jordan Adams was a big miss (a miss that a lot of other teams missed as well), but maybe we can partly thank Hollinger (who some folks on these boards though was going to be a savior) for that.

The biggest issues to me have been trading away first round picks (not all of which he was responsible for) and signing hurt guys, especially Parsons and Wright.  Obviously he doesn't have a stellar record and maybe we could do better, but we could do worse as well, so I'll not be signing any emotional petition 

Chip,

Dillion is okay so far because he plays hard and is in on defense. He is a value pick considering where he was drafted, but let's be honest he ain't a "I'ma gonna turn your franchise around player". I know you are high on Rabb because of his G-league numbers, but again has he played with the big boys yet to show that he can produce consistently? Even if the two works out and are real contributors to the team going forward, that is ONE good draft in over a decade. Tyreke and Green are no-brainer, low risk type moves. He's done and cut lots of these guys that turned out to fair better elsewhere, James Johnson, H. Whiteside, etc. Wallace has no real plan or talent evaluation capabilities at the very least does not have the vision of seeing it through so it's throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks. 

Smit-tay-griz,

Yes, Wallace has made lots of lateral moves. With the length of his term there is no way he hasn't found an acorn here or there. There is however no real direction of the team unless the direction was to ride the core 4 until the wheels fall off which is what has happened. Constantly letting  value walk to make one more push in the playoffs, constantly trading away draft picks for one year rentals all to push for that first-second round out in the playoffs. This slide into the playoffs and seeing what the core 4 can do has caught up and with his track record, I don't want Wallace leading the team into the future. It is by no means an emotional response. If anything, it has been a long bottled-up response. 

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1 hour ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Chip,

Dillion is okay so far because he plays hard and is in on defense. He is a value pick considering where he was drafted, but let's be honest he ain't a "I'ma gonna turn your franchise around player". I know you are high on Rabb because of his G-league numbers, but again has he played with the big boys yet to show that he can produce consistently? Even if the two works out and are real contributors to the team going forward, that is ONE good draft in over a decade. Tyreke and Green are no-brainer, low risk type moves. He's done and cut lots of these guys that turned out to fair better elsewhere, James Johnson, H. Whiteside, etc. Wallace has no real plan or talent evaluation capabilities at the very least does not have the vision of seeing it through so it's throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks. 

Smit-tay-griz,

Yes, Wallace has made lots of lateral moves. With the length of his term there is no way he hasn't found an acorn here or there. There is however no real direction of the team unless the direction was to ride the core 4 until the wheels fall off which is what has happened. Constantly letting  value walk to make one more push in the playoffs, constantly trading away draft picks for one year rentals all to push for that first-second round out in the playoffs. This slide into the playoffs and seeing what the core 4 can do has caught up and with his track record, I don't want Wallace leading the team into the future. It is by no means an emotional response. If anything, it has been a long bottled-up response. 

We rag on Wallace but to be fair we dont know hoe much of the push to make gng work was him or ownership.

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1 hour ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Chip,

Dillion is okay so far because he plays hard and is in on defense. He is a value pick considering where he was drafted, but let's be honest he ain't a "I'ma gonna turn your franchise around player". I know you are high on Rabb because of his G-league numbers, but again has he played with the big boys yet to show that he can produce consistently? Even if the two works out and are real contributors to the team going forward, that is ONE good draft in over a decade. Tyreke and Green are no-brainer, low risk type moves. He's done and cut lots of these guys that turned out to fair better elsewhere, James Johnson, H. Whiteside, etc. Wallace has no real plan or talent evaluation capabilities at the very least does not have the vision of seeing it through so it's throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks. 

Smit-tay-griz,

Yes, Wallace has made lots of lateral moves. With the length of his term there is no way he hasn't found an acorn here or there. There is however no real direction of the team unless the direction was to ride the core 4 until the wheels fall off which is what has happened. Constantly letting  value walk to make one more push in the playoffs, constantly trading away draft picks for one year rentals all to push for that first-second round out in the playoffs. This slide into the playoffs and seeing what the core 4 can do has caught up and with his track record, I don't want Wallace leading the team into the future. It is by no means an emotional response. If anything, it has been a long bottled-up response. 

I agree but after a decade of depression and darkness even a penlight seems like a gigantic ray of sunshine! 😄

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2 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Chip,

Dillion is okay so far because he plays hard and is in on defense. He is a value pick considering where he was drafted, but let's be honest he ain't a "I'ma gonna turn your franchise around player". I know you are high on Rabb because of his G-league numbers, but again has he played with the big boys yet to show that he can produce consistently? Even if the two works out and are real contributors to the team going forward, that is ONE good draft in over a decade. Tyreke and Green are no-brainer, low risk type moves. He's done and cut lots of these guys that turned out to fair better elsewhere, James Johnson, H. Whiteside, etc. Wallace has no real plan or talent evaluation capabilities at the very least does not have the vision of seeing it through so it's throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks. 

Smit-tay-griz,

Yes, Wallace has made lots of lateral moves. With the length of his term there is no way he hasn't found an acorn here or there. There is however no real direction of the team unless the direction was to ride the core 4 until the wheels fall off which is what has happened. Constantly letting  value walk to make one more push in the playoffs, constantly trading away draft picks for one year rentals all to push for that first-second round out in the playoffs. This slide into the playoffs and seeing what the core 4 can do has caught up and with his track record, I don't want Wallace leading the team into the future. It is by no means an emotional response. If anything, it has been a long bottled-up response. 

The highlighted phrases are some of the things I don't like.  I'm not sure what direction this franchise is headed in (besides down), and Wallace may have more of a plan than I realize.  Actually, the article someone linked to somewhere here on the boards made me wonder if he maybe has some long term plan which I can't see, because there may be more reason to having some of these contracts expire when they do, IDK.  It's hard enough trying to make big steps forward when you have low picks (IDK how SAS does it, but they seem alone in that regard), but it's even harder when you trade those picks away.

You may not be emotional about it and feel you have good reason, and you may be right.  I think some others may be a bit too emotional about it without taking a real objective look at what he has and has not done.  I'm just not into petitions to fire someone.  I'll let Robert Pera decide on his own.

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3 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

Chip,

Dillion is okay so far because he plays hard and is in on defense. He is a value pick considering where he was drafted, but let's be honest he ain't a "I'ma gonna turn your franchise around player". I know you are high on Rabb because of his G-league numbers, but again has he played with the big boys yet to show that he can produce consistently? Even if the two works out and are real contributors to the team going forward, that is ONE good draft in over a decade. Tyreke and Green are no-brainer, low risk type moves. He's done and cut lots of these guys that turned out to fair better elsewhere, James Johnson, H. Whiteside, etc. Wallace has no real plan or talent evaluation capabilities at the very least does not have the vision of seeing it through so it's throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks. 

Smit-tay-griz,

Yes, Wallace has made lots of lateral moves. With the length of his term there is no way he hasn't found an acorn here or there. There is however no real direction of the team unless the direction was to ride the core 4 until the wheels fall off which is what has happened. Constantly letting  value walk to make one more push in the playoffs, constantly trading away draft picks for one year rentals all to push for that first-second round out in the playoffs. This slide into the playoffs and seeing what the core 4 can do has caught up and with his track record, I don't want Wallace leading the team into the future. It is by no means an emotional response. If anything, it has been a long bottled-up response. 

Nobody knows where brooks will end up. Your opinion about his ceiling is entirely based on draft position. He could end up being the next Brandon Roy. Yes. Or he could end up being Allan Houston. You just don't know. What I do know is that he can play basketball at a high level right now.

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54 minutes ago, f-dizzle said:

Drafts Thabeet and let's Whiteside go. SMH

Why didn't Whiteside show anything with his former team or in the D-League, or the Grizzlies?  You're just playing Monday morning quarterback.

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5 hours ago, f-dizzle said:

Drafts Thabeet and let's Whiteside go. SMH

Nah, no one really saw Whiteside become that big.

The Heat was rebuilding and just got lucky that they gave him minutes.

 

TBH I was able to watch the a few of his games prior his explosion in Miami, and it wasn't pretty. He looked raw, easily pushed around and got gassed very quick. Kudos to their coaching staff though.

 

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3 hours ago, Iron Mike said:

Nah, no one really saw Whiteside become that big.

The Heat was rebuilding and just got lucky that they gave him minutes.

 

TBH I was able to watch the a few of his games prior his explosion in Miami, and it wasn't pretty. He looked raw, easily pushed around and got gassed very quick. Kudos to their coaching staff though.

 

More evidence. It takes on court minutes. All the practice and gleague time in the world didnt make Whiteside a credible player until he ironed out his mistakes on the court.

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22 minutes ago, Dwash said:

More evidence. It takes on court minutes. All the practice and gleague time in the world didnt make Whiteside a credible player until he ironed out his mistakes on the court.

With that logic there should never be a complaint from anyone, no matter who is on the floor.  Just let everyone get minutes until they iron out their mistakes.

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On 12/3/2017 at 3:41 PM, Kevin B Moses said:

So which one of you guys is Jonathan Simcoe?

 

Simcoe is a hs student.

Everyone here seems to be middle schoolers, or former has beens so far past their prime that the only exercise we get is jumping to conclusions.

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4 hours ago, Iron Mike said:

Nah, no one really saw Whiteside become that big.

The Heat was rebuilding and just got lucky that they gave him minutes.

 

TBH I was able to watch the a few of his games prior his explosion in Miami, and it wasn't pretty. He looked raw, easily pushed around and got gassed very quick. Kudos to their coaching staff though.

 

When he was on the pre-season roster I didn't see those issues at all. He tore it up here during the pre-season and many people wanted him to remain over players with guaranteed deals. 

Now in previous seasons those comments were true but he clearly worked himself into shape before coming to Memphis and he was ready to make up for his first few years as a bust. Getting playing time on a bad team helped too of course. There is no guarantee he would have gotten those minutes behind Gasol. Especially with Kosta Koufos backing up Gasol at the time. 

People forget that Whiteside was toiling in the D-League after not playing in the NBA for over two seasons before Memphis gave him his shot. After he was released he spent another month in the D-League before Miami gave him his shot.  

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But we can agree Thabeet was the worst move ever. Not drafting Bowie over Jordan level, not Oden over Durant level. But we could have had Harden, Damar, or Curry. 

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1 hour ago, f-dizzle said:

But we can agree Thabeet was the worst move ever. Not drafting Bowie over Jordan level, not Oden over Durant level. But we could have had Harden, Damar, or Curry. 

I think Thabeet is worse than those moves.  Thabeet is the worst #2 pick of the two (Thabeet v Bowie).  Yes, Bowie had a better player drafted after him (actually quite a few great players after him), at least Bowie played over 500 games.  

 

And Oden's failures were primarily health related, not talent.  And most the NBA draft community had Oden ahead of Durant (except for this board, which is still batting 100% on draft talent evaluation), there wasn't a great consensus that Thabeet would be good and contribute. 

 

There were so many warning signs on Thabeet, and with Gasol on the roster, the pick was worse (IMO).

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I think Thabeet is worse than those moves.  Thabeet is the worst #2 pick of the two (Thabeet v Bowie).  Yes, Bowie had a better player drafted after him (actually quite a few great players after him), at least Bowie played over 500 games.  

 

And Oden's failures were primarily health related, not talent.  And most the NBA draft community had Oden ahead of Durant (except for this board, which is still batting 100% on draft talent evaluation), there wasn't a great consensus that Thabeet would be good and contribute. 

 

There were so many warning signs on Thabeet, and with Gasol on the roster, the pick was worse (IMO).

 

 

Bowie had a good college career and had his jersey retired by Kentucky but he suffered repeated injuries to his legs and feet which greatly affected his NBA career.  I agree that the Thabeet selection was worse.  Thabeet had no injury issues - he just couldn't play basketball.

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Even though it’s probably time to move on, I won’t be wishing anyone fired.i couldn’t stand Fiz, but not happy he lost his job the way he did.

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Honestly, CW is pretty good at the end of the draft or tinkering around adding small pcs.  Or....maybe its not so much that he is GOOD at it as it is that he just has done a lot of those moves and some have worked out (and the others were small enough they fell off the radar quickly).


Where he has SUCKED is the big ticket stuff.  Top end draft picks (whether or not he drafted them, its his gig), top end FA's....the big money make or break stuff he has been just turdalicious.

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