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masr

Please fire Chris Wallace while you are at it...

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43 minutes ago, masr said:

Bottom line is front office got lucky with both Zbo signing and getting Marc in trade with Lakers. Other than Conley (and I guess Dylan Brooks?), drafting has been below average to horrible. Only major FA signing was injury prone who was not even offered by his own team, and we have gone through multiple coaches over a relatively short period of time. Some of this is bad luck, and without debating the specifics, other GMs have been fired for less...having said that, the lack of any direction (much less voice) from ownership will continue to hamper whoever runs this team....

Lucky on Z-Bo? I don't think so. The Clippers had just drafted Blake Griffin and wanted Z-Bo out of town fast. Wallace made a smart move that was possible because he had cleared up cap space in the Pau Gasol deal. He demanded Marc in the deal too and was telling everyone he was the key to the trade not the draft picks or players. 

We can criticize his performance in the drafts and free agency. We can even posit that he was played in other trades and was too friendly with max contracts to players who never made all-star games. You can criticize his lack of vision on the identity and future of the team.  Those are fair game.

However, you can't say Wallace was lucky with Gasol and Z-Bo. He told everyone who would listen that the Pau trade was about getting Marc and having cap space to make another move which turned out to be Z-Bo. 

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Lucky on Z-Bo? I don't think so. The Clippers had just drafted Blake Griffin and wanted Z-Bo out of town fast. Wallace made a smart move that was possible because he had cleared up cap space in the Pau Gasol deal. He demanded Marc in the deal too and was telling everyone he was the key to the trade not the draft picks or players. 

We can criticize his performance in the drafts and free agency. We can even posit that he was played in other trades and was too friendly with max contracts to players who never made all-star games. You can criticize his lack of vision on the identity and future of the team.  Those are fair game.

However, you can't say Wallace was lucky with Gasol and Z-Bo. He told everyone who would listen that the Pau trade was about getting Marc and having cap space to make another move which turned out to be Z-Bo. 

I don't think I ever saw you  post anything negative about Conley' deal, am I wrong? In fact I think I was about the only 1 to express dissatisfaction with it. Caught a lot of flak over that. I just didn't see him being worth that much and I still don't.

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Just now, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I don't think I ever saw you  post anything negative about Conley' deal, am I wrong? In fact I think I was about the only 1 to express dissatisfaction with it. Caught a lot of flak over that.

I have said many times that it was rich. I thought he could have been offered a little less than max for the benefit of the team and given them a better opportunity to fill out the roster. 

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Wallace did good getting marc and zbo

though lets be honest both were a bit of a gamble- zbo had horrible reputation around the league as selfish and his off court issues are well documented. Marc was slow lumbering, soft euro guy with high iq but low ceiling

at this point though he would have to sign Giannis to mid level exception for me to restore faith in him as credible gm

 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I have said many times that it was rich. I thought he could have been offered a little less than max for the benefit of the team and given them a better opportunity to fill out the roster. 

You really think he was worth more to the team than Marc was at that time? Let's see, Marc was an All Star and a former DPY also and Conley had never been an All Star.

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Just now, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

You really think he was worth more to the team than Marc was at that time?

It was a different time. Conley was coming off a contract that greatly benefited the Grizzlies and the new NBA TV contract was factoring into that amount. I never felt Conley should have been paid more than any other player in NBA history. You have to remember Gasol was offered a max contract under different financial times. I was just happy Gasol maxed out before the new deal kicked in. He could have easily taken a one or two year deal and then declared free agency with the higher values in place and he knew it at the time he made the deal. Gasol left millions on the table for the Grizzlies. Conley bled them dry the next summer. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

It was a different time. Conley was coming off a contract that greatly benefited the Grizzlies and the new NBA TV contract was factoring into that amount. I never felt Conley should have been paid more than any other player in NBA history. You have to remember Gasol was offered a max contract under different financial times. I was just happy Gasol maxed out before the new deal kicked in. He could have easily taken a one or two year deal and then declared free agency with the higher values in place and he knew it at the time he made the deal. Gasol left millions on the table for the Grizzlies. Conley bled them dry the next summer. 

No, Wallace was the 1 who did that, I doubt if Conley could of come close to that amount anywhere else.

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Did anyone catch the press conference today? Wallace had the meat sweats going even more than usual. Dude is in desperation mode and I'm afraid he's not done doing long-term damage to this franchise.

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18 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The reality is that fizdale talked a big game and never delivered on his promise. His offense was rudimentary at best. Everyone knows that. His defensive principles were also bad. People loved to blame our bad pick n roll on Zach. Now that Zach is gone, it is Marc or Mike. Fizdale was a really bad coach and the only reason the board even liked him was because they hated gng so much that anything, even losing, was better. 

Dude WTH, are you talking about? This thread is about getting rid of Wallace. 

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4 minutes ago, guillermo said:

Wallace did good getting marc and zbo

though lets be honest both were a bit of a gamble- zbo had horrible reputation around the league as selfish and his off court issues are well documented. Marc was slow lumbering, soft euro guy with high iq but low ceiling

at this point though he would have to sign Giannis to mid level exception for me to restore faith in him as credible gm

 

That may have been your opinion of Gasol but Wallace was adamant from the start that Gasol was the piece he wanted in the deal. I remember thinking he was putting a good face on the deal and that most likely the Lakers didn't want both Gasol brothers because the'd have to replenish the Kleenex too often from their checking for blood after every contact with someone! 

Wallace knew Randolph was a risk in the locker room but there was never any question about his talent. Wallace felt that Randolph realized this was his last opportunity and that he would mature here. He was right about that too. 

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18 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

No, Wallace was the 1 who did that, I doubt if Conley could of come close to that amount anywhere else.

True. Wallace had a weird idea that he owed Conley because he out-performed his last deal. 

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

True. Wallace had a weird idea that he owed Conley because he out-performed his last deal. 

I think I was Gasol I would have been pi**ed royally. Maybe if he had gotten the same as Gasol but not 10M more. But there was something else 2, hadn't Gasol been injured before his last contract?

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I believe Gasol broke his foot after the new deal. It was lucky for him that he did the deal first. 

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26 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

That may have been your opinion of Gasol but Wallace was adamant from the start that Gasol was the piece he wanted in the deal. I remember thinking he was putting a good face on the deal and that most likely the Lakers didn't want both Gasol brothers because the'd have to replenish the Kleenex too often from their checking for blood after every contact with someone! 

Wallace knew Randolph was a risk in the locker room but there was never any question about his talent. Wallace felt that Randolph realized this was his last opportunity and that he would mature here. He was right about that too. 

 

Maybe this was happening before the Zach trade (which Wallace deserves credit for), but I feel like since that trade, Wallace tried to find too many lightning in a bottle type of deals.

Have a draft pick in the lower half of the first or in the 2nd round - go with the high athletic upside youngster who, if he catches lightning in a bottle and works out, will be the "steal" of the draft.

Have room to sign a free agent? Go get the cool table with the bad leg, that if healthy, just might catch lightning in a bottle and be a tremendous deal. Brandon Wright, Vince Carter, Chandler Parsons, Tyreke, Mario, and I'm probably missing others.  

I would also like to know how many first round picks weren't actually squandered on draft picks, but on "deals" to get rid of someone or as part of another failed trade.

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Possibly right about trying to catch too much lightning and. It getting safer players.

Wallace is also taking heat for deals he had no part in. Levien traded Rudy Gay, Mo Speights, Wayne Ellington and a first round pick for Jon Leuer and Tayshaun Prince. That trade cost the team their 2017 first round pick. We can’t blame Wallace for that. 

Wallace gave up their 2019 1st round pick for Jeff Green but got the Clippers pick in return when we traded him. Then he gave up that pick for Deyonta Davis and Rade Zagorac. He signed Rade and waived him before he played a single game. Davis has looked okay but clearly not ready to play a major role yet. 

So in my way of thinking the only 1st round pick Wallace gave up was renting Jeff Green and acquiring Deyonta Davis for next year’s draft pick (at the earliest). 

The Grizzlies getting into the lottery this year would help replenish some talent. If they fall into the lottery next year they’ll keep the 2019 pick as well. If Davis is truly the lightning Wallace traded our Clipper’s pick for that is a wash. 

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When you're the smallest market in NBA, you obviously have to hit on your first round picks, or you'll fail. It also doesn't help when the city of Memphis is not a east coast or a west coast city with huge media market. Instead, we're a city with one of the highest crime rates in the country, and the downtown area is not great at all. No free agent would want to spend their NBA career in Memphis, unless they're obviously looking for a bargain money deal.

The draft picks is what Wallace has failed at and the Grizzlies are paying the price. We've all been waiting on Minnesota and Philadelphia to finally make the playoffs and they are on their way. The most valuable assets in the league are draft picks, that's what Boston has and is what the Grizzlies need.

P.S. I think a team needs 45 wins to make the playoffs. Some teams gets in the playoffs with less than 45 playoffs. There won't be much changed in the Western Conference playoffs for this year other than Minnesota will replace Memphis, and New Orleans will probably replace LA Clippers (OKC will still get in, Denver is probably out). My point is, we have all known that once Minnesota gets in the playoffs, one team would be the odd man out, and Memphis is that team. Especially since Conley, Evans, Chalmers, McLemore, Parsons, Selden, and Wright are all band-aid players.

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GSW, HOU, SAS, OKC, MIN, POR, NOP and DEN will probably be the top eight teams to make the playoffs. This is the season we should tank and try to get a top lottery pick. It's still early in the season but the timing is right to rebuild now because of Mike's injury and the incompetent roster. However we should all know nothing will change unless we get a new man in charge of the FO. I am getting sick of Wallace not being held accountable for his poor decisions and lack of vision. The guy is full of excuses. Looking at the schedule ahead, I hope we will lose another 9 straight games to make it 17 in a row. I want to see if that will force Pera to finally make a decision and fire Wallace.

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8 hours ago, Lord Gordon said:

Wallace has done about as much or more damage than Stu Jackson.

That’s going way overboard. Wallace brought the Core 4 to Memphis. Mike Conley was Wallace’s first draft pick, Marc Gasol was Wallace’s only player demand in the Pau Gasol trade (go back and look it up if you don’t believe me), Zach Randolph was acquired in a complex two part trade initiated by sending Darko Milicic to Minnesota for Quenton Richardson and then sending Richardson to the Clippers for Zach. Tony Allen was a free agent signee by Wallace that Hollis wouldn’t even let off the bench until injuries forced him to play him.

There have been mistakes for sure and probably Wallace has been here too long now but to suggest he’s done harm to the franchise is a joke. To compare him to Stu Jackson is beyond ignorant. 

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I agree with chip

Wallace was instrumental in grit grind - have to give credit where its due- he brought over TA, took gamble on zbo, had good insight to get Marc, signed conley to club friendly second contract and he is a classy guy.

but yeah its time to move on

 

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Wallace tried to build an offensive team around Gay and Mayo. It failed and TA/Zbo took over with grit and grind.

You can give him credit, but understand grit n grind was 1) held on too long 2) probably stunted the development of any young players into modern offenses 3) Is not replicable.

This team wont go anywhere until someone, anyone, in this organixation evaluates its true ceiling based on the talent level across the league...instead of based on its recent success.

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Wallace tried to build an offensive team around Gay and Mayo. It failed and TA/Zbo took over with grit and grind.

You can give him credit, but understand grit n grind was 1) held on too long 2) probably stunted the development of any young players into modern offenses 3) Is not replicable.

This team wont go anywhere until someone, anyone, in this organixation evaluates its true ceiling based on the talent level across the league...instead of based on its recent success.

Why was it held onto too long? Do you advocate the team should have tried to lose sooner? What young players did it stunt the development of and how? Why isn't it "replicable?" Are there no longer any players available capable of playing that way? Why isn't recent success a good indicator? 

Seems to me the team has struggled trying to move away from what made it successful. Right now the team is built to compete in the same way as almost every other team in the league and has no superstar, no young talent and their FA acquisitions are injured. Are we surprised by the outcome? 

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17 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I don't think I ever saw you  post anything negative about Conley' deal, am I wrong? In fact I think I was about the only 1 to express dissatisfaction with it. Caught a lot of flak over that. I just didn't see him being worth that much and I still don't.

Are you kidding? At least half this board went insane. Even I, possibly Conley's biggest supporter over the years, wasn't warm and fuzzy about totally MAXing him out. I was on board for 5/120ish. I felt the full MAX was unnecessary and that he would have re-signed for much less, but at the end of the day we had to retain him and we did.

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