SC Grizz

So now what?

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:55 PM, Memphis Maverick said:

Play defense. Play Selden over Mac

Is Selden still banged up?

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Personally, i never understood why we needed to tank to get this magical guaranteed superstar draft pick.    I was always in the camp of pulling a BOS not a Philly.   

Meaning we should've traded zbo and/or tony years ago when they had value to get a first round pick.   I was never of the belief that the only guys that can develop into stars are automatically slotted 1-12 in the draft.   I am also not of the belief that this Grizz FO would even pick the right one in the first place. 

I wanted to move one or two of the core guys for 1rst rd picks then develop the player(s) along with the remaining core guys  ala Celtics.   Instead most fans either wanted to hit the Nuke button or ride the bus till wheels fell off.    Neither option guaranteed success.   

Tanking wouldn't have guaranteed us anything due to incompetency of this FO and weakness of most of these drafts.   Do ya'll think we would have gotten Porzingas?? Embiid?? Simmons?  More likely we would have taken Winslow, Cauley-Stein, Hezonja, Dunn, Bender.... None of those dudes are better than Wayne, Rabb, or Dillon.  

Reality is our fanbase ain't sticking around for a full tank rebuild.   However, if things don't get better i am all for a pivot and soft rebuild by first trading Marc for picks.     Then focusing on the talented young guys we do have while keeping Parsons and Evans because they are only 28yrs old and entertaining to watch.     Go see what can be had for Wright, Gasol, Harrison, and Ennis.     Moving Mike and Parsons would cost us future assets due to their injury history and salaries.    No reason to give up Tyreke when moving those salaries can now allow us to resign him.     We can still pursue being a playoff team with a team built around Mike + Parsons +Evans + JaMyke .    Then go all in on developing Rabb, Davis, Wayne, and Dillon and any other new assets we may have.     

I think the part you are forgetting is that Boston DID start a full rebuild. Remember they drafted Marcus Smart at the top of the draft in 2014. They were terrible for the first half of the next year....until they traded for IT who turned the team around. it was a short rebuild, but they went into rebuild mode.

The thing is while IT is similar to a ZBo or maybe what a Tyreke can be in a flawed rehab 2nd rate superstar...the meat of that rebuild was the swap with Brooklyn. Even Al Horford said those assets weighed heavily in his decision to sign there.

The swap with Brooklyn is why Im saying dont wait. They sold Brooklyn on the logic that KG/Pierce were winners even if they were losing skill. But if you wait too long your assets lose their shine. I felt that they made that trade before they were totally dead, thats why they got so much in return.

Bottom line is we need some lottery talent. They are good players available in the 6-10 part of the lottery, so you dont have to go for #1 picks every year. But we need lotto talent. This is your greatest chance for All Star talent in the top part of the draft. History shows that you need top half of the draft talent. The foundation needs an overhaul. It needs an AllStar talent. Also, guys like IT and Crowder probably dont breakout as easily on a declining veteran team. Thats the other positive to have an open full

rebuild. You are letting it be known that we are developing players over trying to milk a few wins out of a mediocre squad. Your priorities are on the table and vets can get on board or move on.

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Think there's any way to send out Gasol and Parsons and get back DeAndre Jordan and Kevin Love? That would definitely shore up our rebounding issues. 

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6 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Then go all in on developing Rabb, Davis, Wayne, and Dillon ...

So when Rabb's cleared from concussion, do you leave him in the G-League, push 8000 calories a day into him and do two-a-days in the weight room? Or bring him up and let him get pushed around?   

A few weeks ago the answer was obviously G-League. Now, maybe we should have kept Janis Timma. 

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Interesting comment from one of the pro tank guys from previous seasons.

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17 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

When Conley is OUT

When Selden is OUT

When Wright is OUT

When Rio is on minutes watch

When Parsons is on minutes restriction

When Brooks is a rookie and foul prone

When Harrison is complete garbage

When Rabb is OUT

When you don't want to play Marc 40+ on a gimpy ankle

What would you do?

I really don't think a lot of ya'll understand the extra complications that Fiz has to deal with.   He cannot really go to a 8 man rotation right now due to all those factors above.   This isn't 2K guys do need in game rest.   He tries to still minutes every game for his main guys but unfortunately the weak players on this team barely qualify for G-league level.  

I agree with the limitations that are placed on Fiz because of injuries and roster make-up.

How to justify D. Davis scoring 14 points in the 1st half then being completely ignored in the 2nd half is a different story...

Also while he has limitations I would never put in the lineup from my post you quoted on the court for any period of time. Never. Literally the only guy in that unit that is capable of handling the ball at all is Tyreke. The rest of them are not even able to run the "offense". If you have minutes restrictions, etc. then you have to plan accordingly IMO. 

As an example, no matter how slaw Harrison is I would have had him out there instead of one of McLemore, Ennis or Martin in that line up. Ennis could have easily played 4 and the others switched accordingly to allow us to get one more guy who can dribble a dang basketball out there. 

This is just one example, but we make simple mistakes like this all the time. I really really disliked DJ because I thought he was a scumbag, but even when he was playing Ryan Hollins you could look at it from a logically perspective and say "yeh I get that". With Fiz I honestly can't and that is worrisome to me. 

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This is a terrible year to rebuild. No one in the draft is a Ben Simmons type game changer, it’s a bunch of dudes with “potential” and I hate that word when associated with the Grizzlies front office. But at this point if it’s not looking good by mid December I don’t think you have a choice. 

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16 hours ago, SC Grizz said:

As an example, no matter how slaw Harrison is I would have had him out there instead of one of McLemore, Ennis or Martin in that line up. Ennis could have easily played 4 and the others switched accordingly to allow us to get one more guy who can dribble a dang basketball out there. 

Harrison is a -30 on the season for worst on team.   McLemore Ennis and Martin are all better options over him and it aint even close.     I will assume you haven't watched all the games this season to see how big of a drain Harrison is on the offense and defense.    McLemore is at least respected from 3pt range and has proven he can play in the NBA.    Plus McLemore is your 11million dollar investment so it just makes more logical sense to try to get him going than continue killing yourself playing Harrison. 

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7 hours ago, King Dork said:

This is a terrible year to rebuild. No one in the draft is a Ben Simmons type game changer, it’s a bunch of dudes with “potential” and I hate that word when associated with the Grizzlies front office. But at this point if it’s not looking good by mid December I don’t think you have a choice. 

Doncic.

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On 11/24/2017 at 10:00 PM, GrizzTigerFan said:

Harrison is a -30 on the season for worst on team.   McLemore Ennis and Martin are all better options over him and it aint even close.     I will assume you haven't watched all the games this season to see how big of a drain Harrison is on the offense and defense.    McLemore is at least respected from 3pt range and has proven he can play in the NBA.    Plus McLemore is your 11million dollar investment so it just makes more logical sense to try to get him going than continue killing yourself playing Harrison. 

I have watched enough to know that Harrison has played very poorly, but I have also watched enough of both Ben McLemore and Andrew Harrison to know that Harrison is the better ball-handler (even if not by much). McLemore has shown very little as our big free agent splash which stinks because I was very optimistic about him.  

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1 hour ago, SC Grizz said:

I have watched enough to know that Harrison has played very poorly, but I have also watched enough of both Ben McLemore and Andrew Harrison to know that Harrison is the better ball-handler (even if not by much). McLemore has shown very little as our big free agent splash which stinks because I was very optimistic about him.  

Yea but McLemore is also a much better offensive player and their defense is a wash.   Right now we need dudes on the court that are a threat to score.    Which is why Martin was getting PT over Ennis.    Martin at least can attack off the bounce and sort of create his own shot.   Ennis has to be spoonfed all of his shots if they aren't runouts.     

The thing is nobody is playing lockdown defense so it appears to me that Fiz is trying to play the guys with the higher offensive ceilings to see if that jumpstarts anything. 

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Sorry but Harrison is a far better defender than McLemore. That’s just a silly saying they are similar on defense. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Sorry but Harrison is a far better defender than McLemore. That’s just a silly saying they are similar on defense. 

statisically speaking this year McLemore is actually much much better.   But eye test tells me they are close. 

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-advanced/

Harrison Defrtg: 114  and Ben defrtg 98

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

statisically speaking this year McLemore is actually much much better.   But eye test tells me they are close. 

http://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-advanced/

Harrison Defrtg: 114  and Ben defrtg 98

Get your eyes checked. Harrison has played most of his minutes out of position against starting SGs. McLemore has played against bench players at his natural position. 

Lies, white lies and statistics...

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Get your eyes checked. Harrison has played most of his minutes out of position against starting SGs. McLemore has played against bench players at his natural position. 

Lies, white lies and statistics...

harrison is still playing out of position and the Grizz were being torched on difference everytime he touched the court.   My eyes are pretty good. 

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If you see McLemore outplaying Harrison on defense then this will have to be another area where we agree to disagree.

You still believing Fizdale is the answer at coach? I only ask since you have been so vocally opposed to coaches with winning records in the past.

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

If you see McLemore outplaying Harrison on defense then this will have to be another area where we agree to disagree.

You still believing Fizdale is the answer at coach? I only ask since you have been so vocally opposed to coaches with winning records in the past.

I am not saying that McLemore is killing Harrison defensively and frankly i don't care cuz they are both mediocre players at this point. 

only his second year coaching and has an entire new roster.    If we are going thru a rebuild and possibly tanking then a coach that believes in playing young talent is the way to go.   

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Longest losing streak since 2009 with games coming up against San Antonio twice and Cleveland but GF is still hanging tough supporting his coach. 

Just curious but how many losses will it take for you to change your mind? 

And Ivan Arab didn’t play tonight so Wallace’s mistakes (Martin with a 1st round pick and Davis who cost us the Clippers #1 pick next year) could. Seems like Fizdale has played some young guys like those two and Harrison but he isn’t playing the one I see having the most upside. It isn’t always smart to play a bad player simply because he is young.

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