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6 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

And that is why you wanted to fire the first two and will soon be wanting to fire the 3rd. When winning isn't the priority for the coach then then the coach needs to be relieved of his duties. 

If Fizz is failing at the most important objectives to the FO.  Then sure he should be fired.  Doesn't matter what i want.  

However, so far he is showing that he is serious about development: Brooks, Harrison, Selden. 

Figured out how to maximize Parsons.

We are still in playoff race.     

The craziest unforeseen biggest hurdle is actually Mike and Marc. 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If Fizz is failing at the most important objectives to the FO.  Then sure he should be fired.  Doesn't matter what i want.  

However, so far he is showing that he is serious about development: Brooks, Harrison, Selden. 

Figured out how to maximize Parsons.

We are still in playoff race.     

The craziest unforeseen biggest hurdle is actually Mike and Marc. 

Brooks is the only player that fits your description. Selden and Harrison didn't even play last night. We are still in the playoff hunt despite going 2-5 in the last 7 games. With 69 games remaining it is hardly what I consider a solid  playoff position.  

Marc and Mike are hurt but playing the most minutes on the team so I am not surprised they aren't playing at the high level people expect. I suppose you support their playing extended minutes since they are two of the 3 top paid players and Fizdale needs to protect their minutes right?  

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Its funny, Evans is the type of player we've desperately needed since tradin Gay. But heaven forbid he starts cuz it might screw up team chemistry. Dunno bout ya'll but I also put value on team balance. And I rather have a startin lineup playin better than the bench, right now it's the opposite. You replace one of Ennis/Brooks with Evans n once we get Jam‎ back the startin lineup looks somethin like this;
 
Conley
Evans
Brooks or Ennis
Green
Gasol‎
 
With a bench of Chalmers-Parsons-Wright plus two of Ennis/BMac/Brooks/Selden dependin on the night.‎ Parsons takes back the startin SF spot eventually.‎

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Just now, cdp said:
Its funny, Evans is the type of player we've desperately needed since tradin Gay. But heaven forbid he starts cuz it might screw up team chemistry. Dunno bout ya'll but I also put value on team balance. And I rather have a startin lineup playin better than the bench, right now it's the opposite. You replace one of Ennis/Brooks with Evans n once we get Jam‎ back the rotation looks somethin like this;
 
Conley/Evans/Brooks or Ennis/Green/Gasol‎
 
With a bench of Chalmers-Parsons-Wright plus two of Ennis/BMac/Brooks/Selden dependin on the night.‎ Parsons takes back the startin SF spot eventually.‎

Evans has been closing games but he hasn't been as effective as he is with the backups. 

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

Brooks is the only player that fits your description. Selden and Harrison didn't play last night. We are still in the playoff hunt despite going 2-5 in the last 7 games. With 69 games remaining it is hardly what I consider a solid position however.  

Marc and Mike are hurt but playing the most minutes on the team so I am not surprised they aren't playing at the high level people expect. I suppose you support their playing extended minutes since they are two of the 3 top paid players and Fizdale needs to protect their minutes right?  

Fiz has been the coach for longer than this season.   Harrison and Selden are proof that he is willing to play rookies and develop players.  Brooks is proof that it wasn't just a 1 year fluke.  

 

No i don't agree with them playing so many minutes but i understand why Fiz does.  They have a track record of being really really good AND are your highest paid foundation players.   I can do like you suggest and "believe" that Fiz should bench them but i understand the reality of the situation.  

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Fiz has been the coach for longer than this season.   Harrison and Selden are proof that he is willing to play rookies and develop players.  Brooks is proof that it wasn't just a 1 year fluke.  

 

No i don't agree with them playing so many minutes but i understand why Fiz does.  They have a track record of being really really good AND are your highest paid foundation players.   I can do like you suggest and "believe" that Fiz should bench them but i understand the reality of the situation.  

I understand the reality of the situation. My OP on this subject said "in a perfect world" and went on to state that I anticipated players getting minutes who don't deserve them. Glad you finally came to agree with my position. :)

Maybe now you will simply speak the truth as you believe it instead of interpreting what you hope others are thinking and make it sound like you believe that to be the truth.

Fizdale is a big boy and he is either going to do what is right or what he believes others want him to do. If he continues to do what others expect of him instead of what's right the team will hover around .500 or worse and what could have been a good season will go down the drain. 

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5 minutes ago, cdp said:
Its funny, Evans is the type of player we've desperately needed since tradin Gay. But heaven forbid he starts cuz it might screw up team chemistry. Dunno bout ya'll but I also put value on team balance. And I rather have a startin lineup playin better than the bench, right now it's the opposite. You replace one of Ennis/Brooks with Evans n once we get Jam‎ back the rotation looks somethin like this;
 
Conley/Evans/Brooks or Ennis/Green/Gasol‎
 

Agree with you.   It's insane how many Grizz fans have been criticizing Tyreke for doing basically what they have been BEGGING for a wing player to do for years. 

 "He doesn't pass enough" - neither did Zbo but his jersey retired.  BTW his ast#'s are better than Marc and  1 less than Mikes. 

"Offense is just ISO" - so was Rudy AND Zbo

 "When he scores we loose". That has EVERYTHING to do with Mike and Marc being terrible. 

Either start him or start Parsons.  Mike and Marc aren't getting it done. 

 

10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Evans has been closing games but he hasn't been as effective as he is with the backups. 

That's because Mike and Marc switch it to their 2man and don't involve him enough in offense.  When the game is in the balance they resort to the familiar, problem is they aren't efficient enough to justify that. 

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2 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Agree with you.   It's insane how many Grizz fans have been criticizing Tyreke for doing basically what they have been BEGGING for a wing player to do for years. 

 "He doesn't pass enough" - neither did Zbo but his jersey retired.  BTW his ast#'s are better than Marc and  1 less than Mikes. 

"Offense is just ISO" - so was Rudy AND Zbo

 "When he scores we loose". That has EVERYTHING to do with Mike and Marc being terrible. 

Either start him or start Parsons.  Mike and Marc aren't getting it done. 

 

That's because Mike and Marc switch it to their 2man and don't involve him enough in offense.  When the game is in the balance they resort to the familiar, problem is they aren't efficient enough to justify that. 

People wanting a scoring wing doesn't mean they want a player who simply drives the ball to the basket, clogging the lane for Mike and Marc and not spreading the court at all. Teams are defending the Grizzlies by packing the paint and daring the Grizzlies to beat them from the perimeter. So far that has been a pretty smart move too since the team is 25th in the league in 3 point shooting percentage. 

Hopefully the SG role will be taken by Selden or McLemore who can hit the long ball according to everyone this summer. With Green returning that too will help spread the court making it easier for Conley and Gasol to operate. In my opinion many of the problems the Grizzlies have right now stem from teams daring them to shoot from the perimeter where the team isn't as effective. Adding Evans to the starting unit won't alleviate that problem in my eyes. 

I know Evans has been hitting his threes but he's mostly a drive to the basket type of player. Selden and McLemore are better suited to spread the court if they can prove they can hit the shots on a consistent basis. If they can't then starting Evans makes more sense but right now I don't believe Evans is the answer to the starting five problems and losing him off the bench weakens that group as well.  

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

People wanting a scoring wing doesn't mean they want a player who simply drives the ball to the basket, clogging the lane for Mike and Marc and not spreading the court at all. Teams are defending the Grizzlies by packing the paint and daring the Grizzlies to beat them from the perimeter. So far that has been a pretty smart move too since the team is 25th in the league in 3 point shooting percentage. 

Hopefully the SG role will be taken by Selden or McLemore who can hit the long ball according to everyone this summer. With Green returning that too will help spread the court making it easier for Conley and Gasol to operate. In my opinion many of the problems the Grizzlies have right now stem from teams daring them to shoot from the perimeter where the team isn't as effective. Adding Evans to the starting unit won't alleviate that problem in my eyes. 

I know Evans has been hitting his threes but he's mostly a drive to the basket type of player. Selden and McLemore are better suited to spread the court if they can prove they can hit the shots on a consistent basis. If they can't then starting Evans makes more sense but right now I don't believe Evans is the answer to the starting five problems and losing him off the bench weakens that group as well.  

Philosophy of this team since GNG era began is to craft an offense based around your best most efficient scorer.    Right now that is Tyreke.   

Pop Quiz

  • who is better at scoring in the paint, Mike or Reke?
  • Who is better outside shooter, Mike or Reke?    
  • Who is better coming off screens and shooting, Mike or Reke? 
  • Who is better at getting to the rim and drawing fouls, Mike or Reke?   
  • Who is more efficient scorer that's harder to defend. Mike or Reke?
  • Who is better passer and floor general, Mike or Reke?
  • Who is paid way more but performing way less, Mike or Reke?

Your answers should be Reke, Reke,Mike, Reke, Reke, Mike Mike.   Its just like the Rudy and Zbo argument.   Your offense will look better when you gear it towards the more efficient guys.  Team turned the corner when they realized that Zbo was the best "scorer" for that team in 2013.   Notice i said "scorer" not overall player.   Tyreke is the best Scorer this team has had since 2011, period.  Smart coaches figure out how to maximize that as much as they can.   

 Mike has turned into a chucker and until he changes that its hard to justify running offense thru him.    You  shouldn't view it as Reke clogging the lanes for Mike and Marc.  You should look at it as Mike is taking away touches from Reke.  Besides Reke spaces the floor just fine- he slashes not posts up so he doesn't clog the paint. Reke can co-exist with Conley and Gasol.  

If you think its all about banking wins.  Then why would you be opposed to starting our best player?    Its foolish to assume that Tyreke's success is tired to him being a reserve player.    Just because he is scoring 20+ game off the bench doesn't mean he needs to come off the bench to score 20+ a game.      I am pretty sure if KD, Lebron or Steph came off the bench they would all easily average 20+ ppg too.    

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I am not against starting the best player. I just disagree with you on basing the opinion strictly on scoring. Mike is a better team leader than Evans and I want a team leader running the point. 

I also disagree that Evans success is not directly related to playing with Chandler (a court spacer), Chalmers (spacer) and the others. I believe Evans success is because the court is better spaced with the backups than it is with the starters. I believe Conley and Gasol will improve their play when two legitimate three point threats are added to the starting lineup in JaMychal Green and either Selden or McLemore. I prefer Selden after watching McLemore play for the Hustle but both are better threats from deep than Brooks. 

If Selden and McLemore fail to live up to the hype you and others gave them this summer then Evans can be moved into the lineup and take away touches from Conley and Gasol. Of course, that would mean Fizdale was not protecting his big three as you suggested he wanted to do earlier in this thread.

It is so difficult to keep up with all of your changing theories on these issues. One moment you are advocating Fizdale wanting to find ways to keep Conley, Gasol and Parsons as the focus and the next you are advocating taking opportunities away from them. 

I don't want to over-react to the slow start that is based on a combination of injuries slowing Gasol and Conley plus injuries taking two starters out of the rotation. With those starters back or due back shortly now is not the time to make more changes to the rotation. Now is the time to heal up (the team is at home until after Thanksgiving now) and get the original starters working out together to get back in sync and start exploiting opponents who try to pound the paint defensively.  

If Selden or McLemore fail then Evans is always available to move into the role they lost. 

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Are you serious?  This "belief" you have is only reality in amateur and rec leagues.    In multi-billion dollar sports entertainment the highest paid athletes always get the priority FIRST.   Fiz wasn't hired to simply "win games" he was brought in to develop players and transition the team focus from old CORE4 to the new CORE3 while making the playoffs.   Figuring out how to best use Mike, Marc, and Parsons IS  his primary job.    

We have had 3 different coaches and you still repeat the same mantra that "every roster guy has to earn his spot".  Even though it NONE of the coaches adhered to your philosophy. 

None of the coaches?  I'm pretty sure Hollins didn't play anyone who didn't earn their time.  Hell, he sat Allen Iverson.

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8 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

  Mike's usage rate is too high for a guy producing at such an efficient rate.   His jacking up quick 3s  

For a while last year, that was a relatively high-percentage play, when they went in at a decent rate. Other options weren't productive. I just mentioned Jason Williams in another thread for unrelated reasons; there's another guy who'd lead a 4-on-1 and take a 33-foot shot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock .  

 

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4 hours ago, chipc3 said:

People wanting a scoring wing doesn't mean they want a player who simply drives the ball to the basket, clogging the lane for Mike and Marc and not spreading the court at all. Teams are defending the Grizzlies by packing the paint and daring the Grizzlies to beat them from the perimeter. So far that has been a pretty smart move too since the team is 25th in the league in 3 point shooting percentage. 

Hopefully the SG role will be taken by Selden or McLemore who can hit the long ball according to everyone this summer. With Green returning that too will help spread the court making it easier for Conley and Gasol to operate. In my opinion many of the problems the Grizzlies have right now stem from teams daring them to shoot from the perimeter where the team isn't as effective. Adding Evans to the starting unit won't alleviate that problem in my eyes. 

I know Evans has been hitting his threes but he's mostly a drive to the basket type of player. Selden and McLemore are better suited to spread the court if they can prove they can hit the shots on a consistent basis. If they can't then starting Evans makes more sense but right now I don't believe Evans is the answer to the starting five problems and losing him off the bench weakens that group as well.  

That has been the other teams stradegy since 2012, but the Grizz would overcome this more often than not because of Zbo banging away inside and his talent under the basket to get it done.

Tyreke has replaced Tony in that both could drive to the rack, but Reke handles and shoots better.

Marc needs to use the low post game more, this may open up the high-PNR and outside shot. Teams ahave scouted Marc from last year and adjusted. Get in the low post more.

And Mike needs to stop being slaw. Before yesterday's game he was 21% from 3 - that is terrible.

I'd put Reke at starting SG, keep Dillon at starting SF. Ennis aint that good like many think here. If he's that good, he should be able to do it from the bench right?

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