Blackwatch

Does Fizz's system fit the current roster?

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6 hours ago, TimBC said:

Sports Illustrated Top 100 of 2018, preseason:

Mike #18, Marc #24 ... no one else.
Even if you argue that Parsons will be top 100 when healthy, that makes three. 
There are 30 teams. A balanced league would have three top-100 on each team. 
WITH a healthy Parsons we have three. Which makes us average.

We'd have more wins with Pops (who wouldn't?) but nowhere near a championship. 

It's time to get realistic - as we do EVERY year at this time - about what this roster's ceiling is. 
If we top out at 45 wins, then a good coach is one who gets us those 45 wins. A superior coach gets us maybe to 48.

And even that's assuming an NBA-average level of injuries. 

Especially when we appear not to have effective backups at C and PG. 

 

 

 

Really?  The year we won 56 games we traded away Speights and Haddadi so who was our backup center?  Ed Davis?  He certainly wasn't better than Wright, maybe close to the same.  Were Bayless and Keyon Dooling so much better than Chalmers, Evans and Harrison?  I think we're slightly better off if everyone stays healthy.

 

6 hours ago, Blue Bear said:

Ah, I think it's way more variables to consider than just having 3 top 100 players on the team. I won't get into all of that but I agree that we don't have a backup C but we have Chalmers and Evans. I think they are both effective as a backup pg for Conley. 

I don't get the dissatisfaction with Wright so far.  In relation to time on the the floor he is the fifth best producer of points, second in rebounding, first in blocks and first in FG%.  What the heck do you guys want from a guy getting only 15 minutes per game?

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5 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Really?  The year we won 56 games we traded away Speights and Haddadi so who was our backup center?  Ed Davis?  He certainly wasn't better than Wright, maybe close to the same.  Were Bayless and Keyon Dooling so much better than Chalmers, Evans and Harrison?  I think we're slightly better off if everyone stays healthy.

 

I don't get the dissatisfaction with Wright so far.  In relation to time on the the floor he is the fifth best producer of points, second in rebounding, first in blocks and first in FG%.  What the heck do you guys want from a guy getting only 15 minutes per game?

PERFECTION !!!!!!!!!!

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15 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

I think there is nothing wrong with Fizz's system in theory. The problem I have is that the team is playing like they have the personnel to be a quick, distance shooting team, which is not the case. They do not have the shooters to launch 35 3's a game, they do not have the scoring to allow teams to score 30pts/qtr. on them. Again last night, down the stretch, they launched 3 after 3 after 3. You can't take that many 3 pointers during crunch time when you are not proficient in it. The Grizz scored 84 points in 3 qtrs. , which would be great, if they played any D what so ever. A good way to gauge how a game will go is to see how many points the other teams scores in a qtr. If the other team scores between 22 and 26 points in a quarter, the Grizz are in for a long nite.

 

 

 

I agree with you about our personnel not matching the quick, distance shooting team, but what is Fizdale's system? I used to think it involved passing, but now it just seems to involve some iso-ball and the Mike/Marc pick-n-roll with a lot of three jacking. 

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14 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Really?  The year we won 56 games we traded away Speights and Haddadi so who was our backup center?  Ed Davis?  He certainly wasn't better than Wright, maybe close to the same.  Were Bayless and Keyon Dooling so much better than Chalmers, Evans and Harrison?  I think we're slightly better off if everyone stays healthy.

 

I don't get the dissatisfaction with Wright so far.  In relation to time on the the floor he is the fifth best producer of points, second in rebounding, first in blocks and first in FG%.  What the heck do you guys want from a guy getting only 15 minutes per game?

I'm not against having Wright as a backup center. I agree with your assessment. I just want to see him keep up this output. He has certainly been productive. 

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14 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

I don't get the dissatisfaction with Wright so far.  In relation to time on the the floor he is the fifth best producer of points, second in rebounding, first in blocks and first in FG%.  What the heck do you guys want from a guy getting only 15 minutes per game?

I don't understand the criticisms either.   He has been the perfect fit for that bench unit that's uber productive.   I also hope to see more BW + Gasol combo in the future too.   Rebounding and defense looks much better when they share the court together.  

 

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58 minutes ago, Blue Bear said:

I'm not against having Wright as a backup center. I agree with your assessment. I just want to see him keep up this output. He has certainly been productive. 

I want to see Ivan Rabb getting some minutes with the big squad. He's destroying the G League and I suspect he's already more effective than Jarell Martin and possibly more what the team needs than JaMychal Green.

People have screamed to give young guys a chance for years on this board and when we finally get a big man with real skill no one says a word about him playing in the G League while we put up with scrubs in real games. It makes no sense.  

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I want to see Ivan Rabb getting some minutes with the big squad. He's destroying the G League and I suspect he's already more effective than Jarell Martin and possibly more what the team needs than JaMychal Green.

People have screamed to give young guys a chance for years on this board and when we finally get a big man with real skill no one says a word about him playing in the G League while we put up with scrubs in real games. It makes no sense.  

We could definitely use an extra guy who just rebounds, boxes out, and runs the floor.  

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I want to see Ivan Rabb getting some minutes with the big squad. He's destroying the G League and I suspect he's already more effective than Jarell Martin and possibly more what the team needs than JaMychal Green.

People have screamed to give young guys a chance for years on this board and when we finally get a big man with real skill no one says a word about him playing in the G League while we put up with scrubs in real games. It makes no sense.  

That would be nice but whose spot should he take in rotation?    Fizz is already struggling to integrate the new guys now.  Adding Rabb would be suicide.  

 

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24 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That would be nice but whose spot should he take in rotation?    Fizz is already struggling to integrate the new guys now.  Adding Rabb would be suicide.  

 

Parsons takes games off all the time. People have also wanted Parsons to play SF more. JaMychal Green isn't game ready yet so it's not like he is ready to play 30+ minutes. Gasol needs more minutes off and with Conley out 2 weeks at least there is no reason to wear out our big man while he is out. 

In my opinion Rabb is worth fast pacing just as much as Brooks has been. I understand if Fizdale prefers to rely on the veterans he knows over taking a shot at developing a younger and still more talented player. I just didn't expect you to flip your opinion on playing young players so fast. Unlike Joerger who had a mandate to win immediately or lose his job, Fizdale - according to you- is supposed to be developing his young players after all. 

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21 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

In my opinion Rabb is worth fast pacing just as much as Brooks has been. I understand if Fizdale prefers to rely on the veterans he knows over taking a shot at developing a younger and still more talented player. I just didn't expect you to flip your opinion on playing young players so fast. 

You do realize Dillon, Jarrell, Andrew, Ben, and Wayne are all under 25 years old, right.    They all have either been a major part of rotation or figure to be rest of season.   Brandan, Reke, Parsons, JaMyke, and Ennis are all under 30.     Not sure why you think Fiz isn't playing younger guys and promoting development.    Unlike yourself i understand the logistics of our roster construction.  Right now it just isn't feasible to introduce a new element into the rotation until everything else is sorted our first. 

25 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Parsons takes games off all the time. People have also wanted Parsons to play SF more. JaMychal Green isn't game ready yet so it's not like he is ready to play 30+ minutes. Gasol needs more minutes off and with Conley out 2 weeks at least there is no reason to wear out our big man while he is out. 

I think until JaM is back close to 100% - that Parsons will remain a reserve.    I think the next move made to starting lineup will be Ben bumping either Brooks or Ennis to the bench.   I hope it's Ennis.    Brooks is the better scorer and defender and that is needed more than Ennis 3pt%.  

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Rabb is better than Martin who started for most of the season. Rabb is better than Green who is starting now. In time everyone will understand this. I just hope it's in a Grizzlies uniform and not someone else's. In the meantime you are probably correct in saying that things won't change much due to the mess the team is in right now having lost 6 of their last 8 games and shuffling the lineups daily it seems. Why take a risk on a 20 year old PF who has real talent when we are running out a broken down SF and an undrafted 28 year old instead? 

Ben McLemore is not the answer today but Wallace signed him  to replace Tony Allen so he'll likely be given a ton of chances.  Same as Parsons was given so many opportunities last season. I hope he earns the respect you are giving him but so far he is 0-4 from the arc and if not for a few lucky rebounds he'd barely have scored at all and his defense is terrible. Why do you want him to replace Brooks or Ennis is beyond me with Conley already out. 

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Evans, Brooks, Ennis, Green, and Gasol might be our best starting five anyway, at least until Beast Mode Mike Conley shows up, if ever.  

I would put the youngsters on a tight leash but I would at least play them some more.  Mario Chalmers shouldn't be playing more than 10-15 minutes a night.  Kobi should get some of the Conley/Mario minutes that aren't taken up by Andrew Harrison.  Tyreke plays a bit more minutes, but as a starting point guard.  I would split the backup power forward minutes 3 ways equally between Parsons, J Mart, and Rabb with Parsons also doing double duty as a backup small forward.  Harrison gets 5-10 minutes tops along with Kobi Simmons.  Brandan Wright gets a few more minutes playing WITH Marc Gasol.

So, basically, give Tyreke Evans the darn ball!

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What is interesting to me after all these years is how everyone still argues about what we should be doing on these message boards. I was on here years ago back when we had Pau and Battier. I ended up getting off the forums because I would get so irritated.  ( my old name was Memphisvol) 

 

I am back, I guess. I think Parsons needs more minutes. Mario needs a minutes reduction. I think its good that we are resting Conley, he clearly needs it. Tyreke is playing for a contract, and as much as I like him scoring he makes questionable decisions some times often taking contested shots when others are wide open. There is no denying though that he has kept us in games but he is one and done. We can't afford him after this year so building around him in  my opinion makes no sense. 

 

The cool thing is, I love that years later people are still passionate about the Grizz.. Man I held season tix back in the pyramid days when you could have heard a pin drop in there! 

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But that's just the thing, Reke is producing, and yet we have to let him go for Parsons because of Parsons' contract. I say, Cut Parsons (if you can't trade him for value), sign Reke, and see where it goes from there. In the Pros, its about winning y'all. The GM made a terrible move with Parsons and eating his contract is the cost of that bad move, take it out of the GM salary (or let him go). But, keeping Parsons instead of Reke is a "loosing" proposition and no one wants that.

Just looking at the Rockets 11/18 game thread and I shutter to think what's going to happen when CP3 and Hardin are up against Rio and Brooks Saturday night. I hope the Grizz keep it close.

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1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

But that's just the thing, Reke is producing, and yet we have to let him go for Parsons because of Parsons' contract. I say, Cut Parsons (if you can't trade him for value), sign Reke, and see where it goes from there. In the Pros, its about winning y'all. The GM made a terrible move with Parsons and eating his contract is the cost of that bad move, take it out of the GM salary (or let him go). But, keeping Parsons instead of Reke is a "loosing" proposition and no one wants that.

Just looking at the Rockets 11/18 game thread and I shutter to think what's going to happen when CP3 and Hardin are up against Rio and Brooks Saturday night. I hope the Grizz keep it close.

If you cut Parsons he still gets paid. The only thing they can do is stretch Parsons deal and keep paying his last two years over the course of 5 years. This would be enough to sign Reke but you are with Parsons on your books for 5 years.

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Peter Edmiston has explained on his morning show that Fiz offensive system is a "Read and React" type.   Meaning that players are supposed to be able to read what the defense is giving them and attach the mismatches.  It's designed to give guys the freedom to take open shots.    In order for it to work well we need multiple ball-handlers and playmakers and keep the ball moving.    What they don't have is a ton of strict halfcourt sets, which apparently is what Gasol is used to. 

Golden State really plays this way  and so does Cavs and Heat. 

Honestly the problem with the offense and defense right now is the play of the guards.   Mike, Mario, Harrison, Ben, and Wayne have not been consistent on offense or defense.  There poor performances have put more pressure on the back-line to over perform.    Due to their under-performance Fiz has had to shift a rookie SF to G just to help. 

We don't have a single true PG playing well.  That is the ripple effect hurting the team.   Rio needs to go back to the bench where he can cause the least amount of damage.  Fiz needs to entertain starting Reke or letting Chandler run the point.  

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4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Peter Edmiston has explained on his morning show that Fiz offensive system is a "Read and React" type.   Meaning that players are supposed to be able to read what the defense is giving them and attach the mismatches.  It's designed to give guys the freedom to take open shots.    In order for it to work well we need multiple ball-handlers and playmakers and keep the ball moving.    What they don't have is a ton of strict halfcourt sets, which apparently is what Gasol is used to. 

Golden State really plays this way  and so does Cavs and Heat. 

Honestly the problem with the offense and defense right now is the play of the guards.   Mike, Mario, Harrison, Ben, and Wayne have not been consistent on offense or defense.  There poor performances have put more pressure on the back-line to over perform.    Due to their under-performance Fiz has had to shift a rookie SF to G just to help. 

We don't have a single true PG playing well.  That is the ripple effect hurting the team.   Rio needs to go back to the bench where he can cause the least amount of damage.  Fiz needs to entertain starting Reke or letting Chandler run the point.  

So if I understand your interpretation of Edmiston, we have a coach dedicated to playing a style of basketball that isn't suited well for the players he has. This is after making sure the team got the players we currently have instead of the veterans we had previously who also couldn't play his style of play. 

That's not a very encouraging statement about the coach. The only style he knows is to play like he has LeBron James and Dwayne Wade or Steph Curry and Kevin Durant.

And now you are back to starting Reke despite changing your mind last week and insisting the team not start him. 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

So if I understand your interpretation of Edmiston, we have a coach dedicated to playing a style of basketball that isn't suited well for the players he has. This is after making sure the team got the players we currently have instead of the veterans we had previously who also couldn't play his style of play. 

That's not a very encouraging statement about the coach. The only style he knows is to play like he has LeBron James and Dwayne Wade or Steph Curry and Kevin Durant.

And now you are back to starting Reke despite changing your mind last week and insisting the team not start him. 

Conley thrived last year.  Rio comes from that system.  Reke and Chandler are doing just fine.   Gasol is the only guy that may be complaining about the system or it may not fit.   You need to re-evaluate your statement.  There is only ONE player that appears to struggle with new system.  But then again that same player had a career offensive year under this same coach.    

I am always on the side of doing what's best for the team.   I never "insisted" that Reke not start i just stated that he may be comfortable with being a 6th man.   I "insisted" that the starting lineup change and the change should involve either Parsons or Reke but somehow you skipped over those comments. 

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Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

Conley thrived last year.  Rio comes from that system.  Reke and Chandler are doing just fine.   Gasol is the only guy that may be complaining about the system or it may not fit.   You need to re-evaluate your statement.  There is only ONE player that appears to struggle with new system.  But then again that same player had a career offensive year under this same coach.    

I am always on the side of doing what's best for the team.   I never "insisted" that Reke not start i just stated that he may be comfortable with being a 6th man.   I "insisted" that the starting lineup change and the change should involve either Parsons or Reke but somehow you skipped over those comments. 

So it is one player's fault that the system is failing and the team has lost 6 of their last 8 games? 

Seriously? 

Conley hasn't played well all season with the loss of Allen and Randolph. Gasol has at least had more than a few good games. I don't believe this is about Gasol's numbers. It's about the team play. You need to re-evaluate your opinion of what Gasol is talking about.

Also, Gasol didn't complain about the system. You were quoting Peter Edmiston if you remember.  

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On 11/13/2017 at 12:58 PM, cdp said:

We need to put a package together for another bruiser. I'd be targettin Tyson Chandler, O'Quinn or Okafor. That would open up another roster spot for either a vet like Brandon Rush or Randy Foye maybe. Or take a chance on another young'n like Archie Goodwin n James Young.

Good thoughts - I think it's a vet big and a vet defensive wing with some scoring ability that are lacking.

Not that acquiring both would cure all ills, but I think it would help in the physicality and perimeter D areas.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Conley thrived last year.  Rio comes from that system.  Reke and Chandler are doing just fine.   Gasol is the only guy that may be complaining about the system or it may not fit.   You need to re-evaluate your statement.  There is only ONE player that appears to struggle with new system.  But then again that same player had a career offensive year under this same coach.    

I am always on the side of doing what's best for the team.   I never "insisted" that Reke not start i just stated that he may be comfortable with being a 6th man.   I "insisted" that the starting lineup change and the change should involve either Parsons or Reke but somehow you skipped over those comments. 

 

2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

So it is one player's fault that the system is failing and the team has lost 6 of their last 8 games? 

Seriously? 

Conley hasn't played well all season with the loss of Allen and Randolph. Gasol has at least had more than a few good games. I don't believe this is about Gasol's numbers. It's about the team play. You need to re-evaluate your opinion of what Gasol is talking about.

Also, Gasol didn't complain about the system. You were quoting Peter Edmiston if you remember.  

Perhaps this is what you were referring to in that other thread. You clearly did say that "there is only ONE (your capitalization) player that appears to struggle with the new system." Were you not referring to Gasol? Did I misunderstand who you were referring to here? 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

 

Perhaps this is what you were referring to in that other thread. You clearly did say that "there is only ONE (your capitalization) player that appears to struggle with the new system." Were you not referring to Gasol? Did I misunderstand who you were referring to here? 

Keyword is "appears".  He is the only player on the team that always talks about "Playing The Right Way" so my comment was in regards to him actually embracing it.      Gasol basically believes every team should play like his Olympic team or the spurs.  He has always made those statements. 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Keyword is "appears".  He is the only player on the team that always talks about "Playing The Right Way" so my comment was in regards to him actually embracing it.      Gasol basically believes every team should play like his Olympic team or the spurs.  He has always made those statements. 

Gasol believes every team should play to win or lose together. If you associate that with the Spurs or Spanish national team that is your issue not Gasol's. I have never heard Gasol say the Grizzlies should play like either of those teams other than in regards to team first, individual's second. Do you not agree with that philosophy? 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Gasol believes every team should play to win or lose together. If you associate that with the Spurs or Spanish national team that is your issue not Gasol's. I have never heard Gasol say the Grizzlies should play like either of those teams other than in regards to team first, individual's second. Do you not agree with that philosophy? 

Gasol's belief is the reason why he passed up easy shots to pass to James Ennis in the playoffs.    Or the bazillion times he would kick it to Tony Allen behind the arc instead of taking on the 6'3 player guarding him in the paint. 

Gasol has praised the Spurs organization in several interviews over the years. 

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