BHZMAFIA

Marc's Ceiling Elevated due to Zbo's Absence?

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Decided to go ahead and make a thread about this...

Did actually moving ZBo off the team help elevate Marc's ceiling? I felt like deep down, he always wanted to try and get Zach involved whether he started or was coming off the bench. He wanted Zbo to do well before himself. Now, he's even more aggressive than I seen him. Not only on offense, but rebounding the ball as well. 

Of course, part of this is due to the amazing shape he's in.

Marc has a career high in USG%, TRB%, DREB%, PER, TS%, DBPM, RPG, PPG and FGA. I believe his rebounding and ability to get to the FT line has been the most amazing aspect of his game this season thus far. Also, the fact that he's back to DPOY Marc.

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11 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

Decided to go ahead and make a thread about this...

Did actually moving ZBo off the team help elevate Marc's ceiling? I felt like deep down, he always wanted to try and get Zach involved whether he started or was coming off the bench. He wanted Zbo to do well before himself. Now, he's even more aggressive than I seen him. Not only on offense, but rebounding the ball as well. 

Of course, part of this is due to the amazing shape he's in.

Marc has a career high in USG%, TRB%, DREB%, PER, TS%, DBPM, RPG, PPG and FGA. I believe his rebounding and ability to get to the FT line has been the most amazing aspect of his game this season thus far. Also, the fact that he's back to DPOY Marc.

Im going to say yes again, Conley and Gasol could not completely embrace leadership roles without an ounce of reservation in the presance of Allen and Zbo,  in a everyday workplace anyology, its an awkward feeling after getting a promotion to a management position having to manage people who used to be your equal, its hard to do without some reservation

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I think that could be part of it. I think a lot of it has to do with Fizdale imploring him to have a more aggressive, killer instinct. Gasol has said that will focus on rebounding more this year. I refuse to think that just came out of thin air.

I'm just hoping that his play continues like it has. Because this version of Marc Gasol is something none of us anticipated, and has the ability to elevate the team's ceiling considerably.

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I read this tweet from Don Wade. Several people were agreeing with it.

Conley and Gasol have made this their team at a whole other level. It's almost like they were being held back and nobody knew it.

As painful as it is to admit, it's becoming apparent we are a better team without Randolph and Allen.

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2 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

I think that could be part of it. I think a lot of it has to do with Fizdale imploring him to have a more aggressive, killer instinct. Gasol has said that will focus on rebounding more this year. I refuse to think that just came out of thin air.

I'm just hoping that his play continues like it has. Because this version of Marc Gasol is something none of us anticipated, and has the ability to elevate the team's ceiling considerably.

 

I want to say its Fizdale, which I do think he's playing a part in it. But, I do remember Marc/Fizdale getting into a lot of casual battles about how Marc should play and Marc just simply wanting to "make the right play". I think we can attribute his start to a little bit of Fiz and Zach not being on the team. 

This has not only helped Marc, but it seems to be doing wonders for Ennis as well. We never saw him run like this last season. He seems to be really enjoying the game and not overthinking things. The pace and spacing has helped him a ton. 

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3 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

but it seems to be doing wonders for Ennis as well. We never saw him run like this last season. He seems to be really enjoying the game and not overthinking things. The pace and spacing has helped him a ton. 

We are finally implementing a play-style that fits majority of the roster instead of just catering to two guys.     Zbo strengths forced the team to play through him.  Which clogged the paint and slowed the pace and people rarely acknowledged how big of an impact that has on perimeter guys.     Ennis, Martin and JaMyke are built for faster paced more open space schemes.    if we still had Zbo i guarantee that Ennis would not be experiencing the breakout he is.   Style of play matters more than people think especially for role players.   The transcendent guys are the only ones that can thrive no matter what.

Defensively i thought we would be better by subtracting Tony simply because these guys will actually stick to the scheme.   The style of defense we previously played catered to Tony's style of gambling a chaos.    It's man to man principals gave the elite level guys the chance to shine but made it more difficult to hide the weaker guys.   Now that everyone is switchable and disciplined it allows even the weaker defenders to still be effective.   Great job by staff of implementing and the players for buying in.  

This is another Rudy Gay situation where sometimes there can be addition by subtraction. 

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19 minutes ago, UofMark said:

As painful as it is to admit, it's becoming apparent we are a better team without Randolph and Allen.

After 3 games, really? I like what the team has done so far, but I see glaring weaknesses in rebounding and post D that will become more apparent as teams get more tape on this squad. I think they have a higher ceiling than the Core 4 squads in the past, simply because more young guns are getting some PT, but I'm still concerned about post play in general. IF Gasol can keep this level of play , then this team can go far, but that is a BIG IF !!!

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1 minute ago, Blackwatch said:

After 3 games, really? I like what the team has done so far, but I see glaring weaknesses in rebounding and post D that will become more apparent as teams get more tape on this squad. I think they have a higher ceiling than the Core 4 squads in the past, simply because more young guns are getting some PT, but I'm still concerned about post play in general. IF Gasol can keep this level of play , then this team can go far, but that is a BIG IF !!!

Post play shouldn't be an issue in a league that's deferring from it. Most of your top bigs are still able to stretch the floor and play in the post (just like Marc). Isolation post play (especially inefficient post play) just causes players to stand around.

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7 minutes ago, BHZMAFIA said:

Post play shouldn't be an issue in a league that's deferring from it. Most of your top bigs are still able to stretch the floor and play in the post (just like Marc). Isolation post play (especially inefficient post play) just causes players to stand around.

Exactly

The Cavs and the Warriors didn't win championships cuz of amazing post play.

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Yea three games mean very little........but, I have taken some heat for saying it was time to move on from those guys. Those guys were Grizz greats, but we haven't gone very far lately with them and they are getting old, I suspect we will see it in their numbers and playing time this year. It clearly doesn't mean we will be a better team this year, but things look good so far.

Overall I don't think they were holding 11 AND 33 back......but it for sure makes our guys have to take control of the team.

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16 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

We are finally implementing a play-style that fits majority of the roster instead of just catering to two guys.     Zbo strengths forced the team to play through him.  Which clogged the paint and slowed the pace and people rarely acknowledged how big of an impact that has on perimeter guys.     Ennis, Martin and JaMyke are built for faster paced more open space schemes.    if we still had Zbo i guarantee that Ennis would not be experiencing the breakout he is.   Style of play matters more than people think especially for role players.   The transcendent guys are the only ones that can thrive no matter what.

Defensively i thought we would be better by subtracting Tony simply because these guys will actually stick to the scheme.   The style of defense we previously played catered to Tony's style of gambling a chaos.    It's man to man principals gave the elite level guys the chance to shine but made it more difficult to hide the weaker guys.   Now that everyone is switchable and disciplined it allows even the weaker defenders to still be effective.   Great job by staff of implementing and the players for buying in.  

This is another Rudy Gay situation where sometimes there can be addition by subtraction. 

I would agree that this style probably suits younger, more athletic players better. Yes, Z-Bo's style did stunt the development of many of the younger players. The problem, though, was that , at the time, Z-Bo was the best option the team had to win. If players Like Conley and Gasol would have proven themselves to be better options than Z-Bo, then I'm sure they would have taken the lead and the teams would not have catered to Z-Bo so much. Multiple coaches coached those players and each one, even Fiz last year in the Playoffs, recognized that the best option on the team was to slow down and cater to Z-Bo. Now that Z-Bo is gone, will Conley and Gasol magically become better options than Z-Bo was? I sure hope so, but we have to wait and see.

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5 minutes ago, grizz1016 said:

Exactly

The Cavs and the Warriors didn't win championships cuz of amazing post play.

In a league that is going away from post play, for teams who do not have once in a lifetime athletes (LeBron) and shooters (Curry), then a good post game can allow you to compete. It is still a higher percentage shot to have a 7 foot center taking 5 foot layups at the basket 80% of the time, than to have a 6 foot shooting guard launching 3's.

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5 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

In a league that is going away from post play, for teams who do not have once in a lifetime athletes (LeBron) and shooters (Curry), then a good post game can allow you to compete. It is still a higher percentage shot to have a 7 foot center taking 5 foot layups at the basket 80% of the time, than to have a 6 foot shooting guard launching 3's.

We have good post play. If Gasol keeps this up, it can be great.

Almost every top 4 team has decent post play and not great. Heck we have a top 2 Center and most other teams don't have a big of Gasol's skillset.

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I dont think anyone should have to be removed from the team for Marc to decide he isnt going to let James Harden and Eric Gordon guard him anymore...but thats just me.

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2 minutes ago, grizz1016 said:

We have good post play. If Gasol keeps this up, it can be great.

Almost every top 4 team has decent post play and not great. 

After 3 games, the Grizz have elite post play, minus the rebounding. I'm concerned about games 45-70. How will Gasol fair then? This is why it is important for him to average at least 25 and 10. If Gasol doesn't give you those numbers, and he hasn't yet in his career, this team will sink fast.  

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Just now, Dwash said:

I dont think anyone should have to be removed from the team for Marc to decide he isnt going to let James Harden and Eric Gordon guard him anymore...but thats just me.

There was that one play last nite where Gordon literally pushed Gasol out of the lane on a post up. No way that should have happened. And that is what I am concerned about with the post play for the Grizz. They do not have a Lebron on the wing nor a Curry in the backcourt. Their strength will be post play in playing those elite teams in the West. Gasol is skilled, but not strong enough and intentional enough to dominate a game from the post. That's what they are gonna need in order for them to compete this year.

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34 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

After 3 games, the Grizz have elite post play, minus the rebounding. I'm concerned about games 45-70. How will Gasol fair then? This is why it is important for him to average at least 25 and 10. If Gasol doesn't give you those numbers, and he hasn't yet in his career, this team will sink fast.  

You can't just look at Marc's output, but then ignore how good the bench has been compared to previous seasons. One of our weaknesses has always been a good bench and having multiple playmakers. 

Seeing Conley full of energy in the 4th quarter is a relief because he doesn't have to literally control every single possession anymore.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

We are finally implementing a play-style that fits majority of the roster instead of just catering to two guys.     Zbo strengths forced the team to play through him.  Which clogged the paint and slowed the pace and people rarely acknowledged how big of an impact that has on perimeter guys.     Ennis, Martin and JaMyke are built for faster paced more open space schemes.    if we still had Zbo i guarantee that Ennis would not be experiencing the breakout he is.   Style of play matters more than people think especially for role players.   The transcendent guys are the only ones that can thrive no matter what.

Defensively i thought we would be better by subtracting Tony simply because these guys will actually stick to the scheme.   The style of defense we previously played catered to Tony's style of gambling a chaos.    It's man to man principals gave the elite level guys the chance to shine but made it more difficult to hide the weaker guys.   Now that everyone is switchable and disciplined it allows even the weaker defenders to still be effective.   Great job by staff of implementing and the players for buying in.  

This is another Rudy Gay situation where sometimes there can be addition by subtraction. 

Now what could've happened if we shipped out Z-Bo and retained Rudy and didn't let Juice go. 

Or to make it more realistic, just kept Love.

Would've a fast paced Conley, Gay, Love (sorry, couldn't resist) and Gasol lineup bring us anywhere close to what the Z-Bo led GnG Grizzlies were able to accomplish?

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14 minutes ago, Iron Mike said:

Now what could've happened if we shipped out Z-Bo and retained Rudy and didn't let Juice go. 

Or to make it more realistic, just kept Love.

Would've a fast paced Conley, Gay, Love (sorry, couldn't resist) and Gasol lineup bring us anywhere close to what the Z-Bo led GnG Grizzlies were able to accomplish?

I think Love would have eventually been a malcontent like with Twolves, a better question might be what if Rudy hadnt been injured that first core four playoff run? In January that year we looked so good, the team was really coming together, and wondering if we would be better never getting Zbo should be sacreligious around these parts, Zbo brought a toughness and fearless ness that a team and city could rally behind

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In reference to rebounding this year, marc said something interesting. He said he didnt care about it and he let his teammates who needed those stats get them.

It is conceivable that the same applies to zbo and offense. He let his brother get those stats.

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1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

After 3 games, the Grizz have elite post play, minus the rebounding. I'm concerned about games 45-70. How will Gasol fair then? This is why it is important for him to average at least 25 and 10. If Gasol doesn't give you those numbers, and he hasn't yet in his career, this team will sink fast.  

I disagree about the Grizz fading 

let’s see how Gasol does for a whole season now that ZBo isn’t there to rebound. Getting Jam back will help as well.

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