Kevin B Moses

Things i know wont happen, but should

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19 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

what should happen but wont is that they should start martin and move jam to the 2 spot.

 

conley/chalmers

jam/mclemore

martin/reke

parsons/brooks

gasol/wright

Comedy?

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I am perfectly fine with the Kobi praise. Dude looks like he could be a gem. 2 years from now, he could be a spark for us...also, insurance for whoever we lose between Baldwin and Harrison.

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what should happen but wont is the Grizz should keep Jarell Martin.  Who needs to go instead of him is another matter but he is 6-10 and can be a stretch 4 who can shoot the 3.  All he needs is some playing time and some belief in him. He has been playing as if his career depended on it in the first 2 preseason games (and it does) and he has shown what he CAN do when focused.  Martin just started playing basketball just a couple years before he got to LSU, but the kid has size and can move, can get rebounds.   Some might say that he hasnt done those things in the years he has been with the Grizz and that is a point, but I think this year,  he is much more motivated.  He knows now that he might be released and possibly out of the league (although Im sure someone would take a flyer on him if MEM cut him).  For a 6-10 guy, he can handle the ball fairly well. Not saying he is Magic Johnson or anything, but the kid has size, strength, quickness for his size and I think he can shoot better than most realize.  

Oh well, just my 2 cents.  Im sure he is more or less toast as far as the Grizzlies are concerned but thought I would try to at least make a case for him. 

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What we need to do is to somehow find a way to put Rade's mind into Jarrel's body.  Then we might have a guy with all the physical tools who knows a little bit about playing basketball.  Martin may eventually "get it", but I am afraid that Zagorac's athletic ability may never let him get to an effective level for NBA play.  

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53 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

What we need to do is to somehow find a way to put Rade's mind into Jarrel's body.  Then we might have a guy with all the physical tools who knows a little bit about playing basketball.  Martin may eventually "get it", but I am afraid that Zagorac's athletic ability may never let him get to an effective level for NBA play.  

Yea like I wish we could've put Tony's heart in JeffGreens body! Lol

Can we just waive Rade then sign him to the Hustle?

No way a second rounder that's clearly not ready to contribute be given a guaranteed roster spot over guys that have actually proven NBA ability: Harrison and Martin.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yea like I wish we could've put Tony's heart in JeffGreens body! Lol

Can we just waive Rade then sign him to the Hustle?

No way a second rounder that's clearly not ready to contribute be given a guaranteed roster spot over guys that have actually proven NBA ability: Harrison and Martin.

I imagine that would pretty bad for Rade, as he might have more earning potential in Europe. 

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37 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I imagine that would pretty bad for Rade, as he might have more earning potential in Europe. 

I could be wrong, but I think if he gets waived that any European contract he signs would count against his NBA contract (insert fanboyslim) if he got waived with guaranteed money. Not to say he would sign a gleague deal just saying.

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14 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I could be wrong, but I think if he gets waived that any European contract he signs would count against his NBA contract (insert fanboyslim) if he got waived with guaranteed money. Not to say he would sign a gleague deal just saying.

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Yes, there is a set-off if a waived player is signed by another team (NBA or not) but there are limitations that in practice mean rookie minimum salary contracts like Rade's wouldn't get any relief:

Quote

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary2) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran during the season in which the player is waived (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $2 million contract with another team for the 2017-18 season, his original team gets to set off $2 million minus $1,312,611 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2017-18), divided by two, or $343,694. The team is still responsible for paying $4,656,306 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $6,656,306, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

The problem with waiving Rade after telling him to break his FIBA contract and when the Euro season has already started is the PR nightmare it would be for the franchise. We'd never be able to bring a draft pick from overseas again.

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29 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I could be wrong, but I think if he gets waived that any European contract he signs would count against his NBA contract (insert fanboyslim) if he got waived with guaranteed money. Not to say he would sign a gleague deal just saying.

Somehow I just don't see the Grizzlies waiving Rade anyway, though at this point I see him least able to contribute.  I hope he proves me wrong.

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Jarrell Martin isn't good and if takes the specter of getting cut for the guy to finally play hard then we don't need him because we can't keep threatening that forever.

 

Our front office is astoundingly incompetent.  Dillon Brooks is the only player I think will turn into a rotation player anywhere outside of Memphis where the front office will keep you around to make it look like they didn't colossally screw up drafting you

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On 10/7/2017 at 1:38 PM, fanboyslim said:

Yes, there is a set-off if a waived player is signed by another team (NBA or not) but there are limitations that in practice mean rookie minimum salary contracts like Rade's wouldn't get any relief:

The problem with waiving Rade after telling him to break his FIBA contract and when the Euro season has already started is the PR nightmare it would be for the franchise. We'd never be able to bring a draft pick from overseas again.

I have no opinion yet about Zagorac and try not to think about who is in or out.

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But ... the commitment was the contract. If I've got this right and they waive Zagorac with the intention of signing him to the Hustle for a year, he makes more money. If he's picked up by another NBA team, he makes more money.

It would be a risky investment. They would have to resign him. I assume they could resign him after the year with the Hustle. That would be an interesting contract.

I understand that it would not look good for the Griz, but would it be a big deal in the international community?

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6 hours ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Jarrell Martin isn't good and if takes the specter of getting cut for the guy to finally play hard then we don't need him because we can't keep threatening that forever.

 

Our front office is astoundingly incompetent.  Dillon Brooks is the only player I think will turn into a rotation player anywhere outside of Memphis where the front office will keep you around to make it look like they didn't colossally screw up drafting you

I think that you are wrong about why Martin is playing harder (and I would say better.) He will be up for a new contract after this season. Do you believe that, after gaining a roster spot, he will slack off?

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18 minutes ago, tangogriz said:

I have no opinion yet about Zagorac and try not to think about who is in or out.

But ... the commitment was the contract. If I've got this right and they waive Zagorac with the intention of signing him to the Hustle for a year, he makes more money. If he's picked up by another NBA team, he makes more money.

It would be a risky investment. They would have to resign him. I assume they could resign him after the year with the Hustle. That would be an interesting contract.

I understand that it would not look good for the Griz, but would it be a big deal in the international community?

Oh you bet it would. It would be a first, and not the good kind.

Minimum contract guys like Rade don't go to the NBA for the money (they could earn way more in Europe, and the extra $50k the Hustle would pay won't exactly make a difference.) They go for the competition, the exposure and the change to get a bigger contract a couple years down the road, in the NBA or overseas.

Plus it would be completely absurd. Why pay him guaranteed money now just to waive him, send him to a lesser competition and lose his rights when we could just let him run out his Mega Leks contract (and spend no money in the meantime), let him season himself in Serbia for one more year and still keep his rights? It makes no sense at all.

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44 minutes ago, tangogriz said:

I think that you are wrong about why Martin is playing harder (and I would say better.) He will be up for a new contract after this season. Do you believe that, after gaining a roster spot, he will slack off?

Jarell Martin has a team option for next season that must be executed or declined by 10/31.

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8 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Oh you bet it would. It would be a first, and not the good kind.

Minimum contract guys like Rade don't go to the NBA for the money (they could earn way more in Europe, and the extra $50k the Hustle would pay won't exactly make a difference.) They go for the competition, the exposure and the change to get a bigger contract a couple years down the road, in the NBA or overseas.

Plus it would be completely absurd. Why pay him guaranteed money now just to waive him, send him to a lesser competition and lose his rights when we could just let him run out his Mega Leks contract (and spend no money in the meantime), let him season himself in Serbia for one more year and still keep his rights? It makes no sense at all.

I'm not talking the kid down. I like him and hope he stays and succeeds. I have not been able to watch either of the preseason games, only the summer league. This just a discussion about options.

I don't know that Rade has more earning potential in Europe. What was he paid last season? I can't find it. Considering where he played my guess is not even 1/4 of what he is guaranteed over the next 2 years. He didn't break a contract with Mega. It appears to have been designed for him to come over this year or next. My guess is that Rade wanted to come sooner.

If the team feels that he's not ready yet, he doesn't lose. Another NBA team picks him up or he plays for us in the G-League. Assuming he's not ready, what's the best way to get there, play another season with Mega or with the Hustle and an NBA organization that believes in your future? (Owning the Hustle is a great investment for the team.)

I said it was a risky investment. I Believe the FO has game planned this and discussed it with Rade and his agent. If you were the FO, you might guarantee a contract but would you also guarantee a roster spot?

Again, I hope Rade is ready.

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8 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Jarell Martin has a team option for next season that must be executed or declined by 10/31.

Ok, thanks. I was confused on how that worked. The options are signed a year ahead.
For anyone else who is fuzzy on it, the Griz owe Martin $1,471,382 for 17/18. If they pick up the option, Martin will be guaranteed $2,416,222 for 18/19.

I hope they keep him.

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4 hours ago, tangogriz said:

I'm not talking the kid down. I like him and hope he stays and succeeds. I have not been able to watch either of the preseason games, only the summer league. This just a discussion about options.

I don't know that Rade has more earning potential in Europe. What was he paid last season? I can't find it. Considering where he played my guess is not even 1/4 of what he is guaranteed over the next 2 years. He didn't break a contract with Mega. It appears to have been designed for him to come over this year or next. My guess is that Rade wanted to come sooner.

If the team feels that he's not ready yet, he doesn't lose. Another NBA team picks him up or he plays for us in the G-League. Assuming he's not ready, what's the best way to get there, play another season with Mega or with the Hustle and an NBA organization that believes in your future? (Owning the Hustle is a great investment for the team.)

I said it was a risky investment. I Believe the FO has game planned this and discussed it with Rade and his agent. If you were the FO, you might guarantee a contract but would you also guarantee a roster spot?

Again, I hope Rade is ready.

Technically he executed a NBA out clause which terminated his previous contract. It was definitely engineered so he wouldn't have to pay money (as other Euro players often have to do) if he jumped over this summer but it was still a contract cancellation. No issues with that, other than the fact that if he wanted to return to Europe now he wouldn't have a contract and most rosters are already full.

Nobody knows how much he earned last season, surely less than he does now, but salaries in bigger European leagues are significantly higher than NBA rookie minimum contracts even with the recent increases. Keep in mind that the salary figures in Europe are tax free and players get paid for pretty much everything (food, transportation, training facilities, housing up to a limit...) so something like a 500k€ contract would be perfectly comparable to a $900k minimum NBA contract. For reference, Nick Calathes is making a bit more than 2M€/yr in Greece. I doubt Rade could command so much, but he'd definitely get more than 25% of Calathes' contract.

I think Rade will not be waived. He will definitely spend most of his playing time with the Hustle but he will also get some time in Memphis practicing with the main team and probably play some minutes in garbage time. Then a decision will be made next summer to keep him or cut him based on what he shows this season. 

I expect Rade to get better once he spends a few months in US training facilities gaining muscle and improving his conditioning, that's definitely something he wouldn't do in Europe. But to be honest I hoped he would be a bit further along in his development.

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5 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Technically he executed a NBA out clause which terminated his previous contract.

...

I think Rade will not be waived.

Yes, it appears that he signed that last extension with Mega after the NBA draft and probably with Grizzlies consultation.

I would not waive any of the big guys.

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Ok, well if Parsons is now a 4, the rumors about Martin being high on the trade-or-waive list start to make a little more sense to me. And now that Martin is more of a keeper the suspense grows.

As above, I just have to keep telling myself "EVERYTHING WILL BE OK." :D

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10 minutes ago, tangogriz said:

Ok, well if Parsons is now a 4, the rumors about Martin being high on the trade-or-waive list start to make a little more sense to me. And now that Martin is more of a keeper the suspense grows.

As above, I just have to keep telling myself "EVERYTHING WILL BE OK." :D

If Martin stays I wonder what effect that will have on Tillery's reporting on the team? 

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Can someone please review which players can be parked somewhere while we wait for one of the top 15 to get hurt?

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1 hour ago, TimBC said:

Can someone please review which players can be parked somewhere while we wait for one of the top 15 to get hurt?

I"m not sure what you are asking here. 

To be eligible for the G League a player has to be on the first three years of his NBA career. that means Jarell Martin, Deyonta Davis, Andrew Harrison, Wade Baldwin, Rade Zagorac, Ivan Rabb and Dillon Brooks can be assigned an unlimited number of times to the Hustle.   

However, any player assigned to the G League has to be on the 15 man roster for the parent club. That means while some players may be playing for the Hustle they are still included in the 15 man roster just not the active roster for games. 

Kobi Simmons signed a two way contract with the Grizzlies which allows the parent club to call him up for up to 45 days to play on the Grizzlies but he is not a part of the 15 man official roster. The Grizzlies also have another two way contract they can offer. 

Vince Hunter and Durand Scott could therefore be signed to the 2nd two way contract and be stashed that way I suppose. 

I hope that answers your question.  

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