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Orlando Magic @ Memphis Grizzlies - PRESEASON-

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12 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Parson still did not look like a player who is going to help much.

 

10 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah I agree. He isnt as horrific as last year though but he isnt going to be worth near his salary.

He needs to get his conditioning up.  But yea i agree he doesn't look like a positive difference maker right now.    Which is why i want to see what Tyreke looks like.  Rio was extremely promising and a huge bright spot. 

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My Assessment..

  • Without Green, Gasol, Reke, or McLemore, we can't take too much away from this game but...
  • Parsons is not a difference maker and much less a max contract guy, but that was apparent before he signed the contract. That has the potential to set this franchise back like drafting Thabeet did
  • Conley is not a #1 "go to" player, never has been, never will be. That's not to say he isn't a great player, nor that the Grizz should trade him. He needs a go to player to feed and take the load off (like Prime Z-bo and Gay were). His skills set and talent are not of a #1 player in the NBA
  • Should trade Gasol for younger talent and start the rebuild this year. Yes, it wastes the best years of Conley, but those years maybe wasted anyway, looking at how the West is shaping up
  • Young guys are not worth it to rebuild around. May have one or two role players in the whole bunch, but nothing to get excited about. Martin looked good, but he has proven to be inconsistent. I'd give him more time, and Seldon is a keeper. Harrison maybe needs to see about a shooting guard spot, Davis need to hit the weight room.

All in all, I would like to see how the team functions with its starting unit, but I don't have a lot of hope that it will make much difference.

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13 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

My Assessment..

  • Without Green, Gasol, Reke, or McLemore, we can't take too much away from this game but...
  • Parsons is not a difference maker and much less a max contract guy, but that was apparent before he signed the contract. That has the potential to set this franchise back like drafting Thabeet did
  • Conley is not a #1 "go to" player, never has been, never will be. That's not to say he isn't a great player, nor that the Grizz should trade him. He needs a go to player to feed and take the load off (like Prime Z-bo and Gay were). His skills set and talent are not of a #1 player in the NBA
  • Should trade Gasol for younger talent and start the rebuild this year. Yes, it wastes the best years of Conley, but those years maybe wasted anyway, looking at how the West is shaping up
  • Young guys are not worth it to rebuild around. May have one or two role players in the whole bunch, but nothing to get excited about. Martin looked good, but he has proven to be inconsistent. I'd give him more time, and Seldon is a keeper. Harrison maybe needs to see about a shooting guard spot, Davis need to hit the weight room.

All in all, I would like to see how the team functions with its starting unit, but I don't have a lot of hope that it will make much difference.

We can't take anything away from this game, but....

We should trade Marc. We need to accept that Mike is just not a go-to player, and our young players are all trash. 

Got it.

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6 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

We can't take anything away from this game, but....

We should trade Marc. We need to accept that Mike is just not a go-to player, and our young players are all trash. 

Got it.

Glad you did.

I was looking at the rest of the squad, I already know what Gasol and Conley can do; nothing they did last night was gonna reveal anything new about them. The unknowns about this squad were on display and, as we saw, its not much talent on the roster after Gasol and Conley, not even in the young players. Fizz's up tempo style will only have them being blown out 130 to 100 rather than 110 to 80 in the Western Conference.

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12 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Glad you did.

I was looking at the rest of the squad, I already know what Gasol and Conley can do; nothing they did last night was gonna reveal anything new about them. The unknowns about this squad were on display and, as we saw, its not much talent on the roster after Gasol and Conley, not even in the young players. Fizz's up tempo style will only have them being blown out 130 to 100 rather than 110 to 80 in the Western Conference.

I do have to wonder if this team has enough firepower (particularly shooting and perimeter scoring) to win at the 110 point pace that they desire but we will see.

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13 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Glad you did.

I was looking at the rest of the squad, I already know what Gasol and Conley can do; nothing they did last night was gonna reveal anything new about them. The unknowns about this squad were on display and, as we saw, its not much talent on the roster after Gasol and Conley, not even in the young players. Fizz's up tempo style will only have them being blown out 130 to 100 rather than 110 to 80 in the Western Conference.

If you would say, this:

I just think that the grizzlies should rebuild the team because it will be a better approach.

instead of trashing our players, I could respect your opinion more.

You clearly are just writing nonsense to get a reaction, when your entire point is to revert back to blowing the team up is the best approach.

I'm going to stop arguing with people like you.

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Everyone does realize this is only the first pre-season game right? 

I wouldn't be trying to draw too many conclusions about anything or anyone yet. 

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7 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

If you would say, this:

I just think that the grizzlies should rebuild the team because it will be a better approach.

instead of trashing our players, I could respect your opinion more.

You clearly are just writing nonsense to get a reaction, when your entire point is to revert back to blowing the team up is the best approach.

I'm going to stop arguing with people like you.

I'm not trashing the players, but , as a fan of pro ball, I don't look at this team with rose colored glasses. Heck, the FedEx Forum is a publically financed cash cow for the owners. The only way a pro team with this type of arena deal makes sense in Memphis is if the team is competitive. Memphis will not support a perennially non-competitive team (this has been shown in the early 2000's).  It would be naïve for any "fan" of Memphis to ignore the lack of competitive talent on this roster, as it is currently constructed. But show me where I "trash" these players. I note that they maybe aren't talented enough to compete in the Western conference, but that's not trashing them, but an honest assessment of their potential to compete relative to how other teams in the conference (their primary competitors) are constituted. Would you agree?

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Everyone does realize this is only the first pre-season game right? 

I wouldn't be trying to draw too many conclusions about anything or anyone yet. 

They have only played on game, but the opinions aren't really based on one game (most of them).

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25 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I'm not trashing the players, but , as a fan of pro ball, I don't look at this team with rose colored glasses. Heck, the FedEx Forum is a publically financed cash cow for the owners. The only way a pro team with this type of arena deal makes sense in Memphis is if the team is competitive. Memphis will not support a perennially non-competitive team (this has been shown in the early 2000's).  It would be naïve for any "fan" of Memphis to ignore the lack of competitive talent on this roster, as it is currently constructed. But show me where I "trash" these players. I note that they maybe aren't talented enough to compete in the Western conference, but that's not trashing them, but an honest assessment of their potential to compete relative to how other teams in the conference (their primary competitors) are constituted. Would you agree?

It's pretty clear that while you may not wear "rose-colored glasses" you aren't even-keeled either in your opinions.

Until you recognize there are valid reasons to keeping the team intact despite your opinion of it you will be prone to making wild assertions that cannot be backup by raw facts. I don't have to be wearing rose-colored glasses, for example, to believe that the grizzlies took a legitimate approach to the team they have assembled. Just as I recognize that rebuilding is another option that has worked in the past.

You can't seem to see beyond your zero-sum game, (all or nothing) mantra to appreciate the team the grizzlies actually have, is all I am saying.

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I'm not trashing the players, but , as a fan of pro ball, I don't look at this team with rose colored glasses. Heck, the FedEx Forum is a publically financed cash cow for the owners. The only way a pro team with this type of arena deal makes sense in Memphis is if the team is competitive. Memphis will not support a perennially non-competitive team (this has been shown in the early 2000's).  It would be naïve for any "fan" of Memphis to ignore the lack of competitive talent on this roster, as it is currently constructed. But show me where I "trash" these players. I note that they maybe aren't talented enough to compete in the Western conference, but that's not trashing them, but an honest assessment of their potential to compete relative to how other teams in the conference (their primary competitors) are constituted. Would you agree?

 

I would just like to point out that, the two most important factors for this team's success are: 1) Injuries, which is internal; and 2) The proliferation of superteams in the Western Conference, which is external.

In terms of just internal issues, the health of the team is, of course, an enormous cloud over this team. Everyone knows that. However, without having to hash out all of the particular injuries, ailments, ages, etc., it can also be said, that if this team can be fully and/or respectably healthy, then a very strong argument could be made that the top-8 or so of this roster is the most talented team we've ever had, on paper. 

I don't want to get into all of that, whether a best case scenario will play out for the franchise with health, or a worst case, or somewhere in between. But, I think it's difficult for anyone to take what you're writing seriously, since you are so far out of touch with the potential upside of this roster as constructed. 

If you want to make an argument that it's pointless to try and compete in the West, because of the proliferation of superteams, well, then, that's another argument. You might want to write Adam Silver a letter, I don't know. 

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24 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

It's pretty clear that while you may not wear "rose-colored glasses" you aren't even-keeled either in your opinions.

Until you recognize there are valid reasons to keeping the team intact despite your opinion of it you will be prone to making wild assertions that cannot be backup by raw facts. I don't have to be wearing rose-colored glasses, for example, to believe that the grizzlies took a legitimate approach to the team they have assembled. Just as I recognize that rebuilding is another option that has worked in the past.

You can't seem to see beyond your zero-sum game, (all or nothing) mantra to appreciate the team the grizzlies actually have, is all I am saying.

 

 

 

 

A legitimate approach? They signed an average to good player (Parsons) to max contract all the while he was coming off of a 3rd knee surgery. Then they let two of the better players on the team (Z-bo and TA) walk without even a trade for draft picks. Then they signed another injury prone player (Reke) and an unproven player (BMac) and neither one stands a great chance of playing opening night. And this is a legitimate approach? For a pro team? OK, I see what you are doing.

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3 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

 

I would just like to point out that, the two most important factors for this team's success are: 1) Injuries, which is internal; and 2) The proliferation of superteams in the Western Conference, which is external.

In terms of just internal issues, the health of the team is, of course, an enormous cloud over this team. Everyone knows that. However, without having to hash out all of the particular injuries, ailments, ages, etc., it can also be said, that if this team can be fully and/or respectably healthy, then a very strong argument could be made that the top-8 or so of this roster is the most talented team we've ever had, on paper. 

I don't want to get into all of that, whether a best case scenario will play out for the franchise with health, or a worst case, or somewhere in between. But, I think it's difficult for anyone to take what you're writing seriously, since you are so far out of touch with the potential upside of this roster as constructed. 

If you want to make an argument that it's pointless to try and compete in the West, because of the proliferation of superteams, well, then, that's another argument. You might want to write Adam Silver a letter, I don't know. 

There is not a player on this roster that is more talented than Pau Gasol or Rudy Gay were when they were here. Heck, I would argue that perhaps Conley and Gasol are as or slightly more talented than Z-Bo in his prime. How in the world can you even post something so ill informed? And you say that I can't be taken seriously? Yeah , OK.

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8 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

A legitimate approach? they signed a average to good player (Parsons) to max contract all the while he was coming off of a 3rd knee surgery. Then they let two of the better players on the team (Z-bo and TA) walk without even a trade for draft picks. Then they signed another injury prone player (Reke) and an unproven player (BMac) and neither one stands a great chance of playing opening night. And this is a legitimate approach? For a pro team? OK, I see what you are doing.

I'm not a fan of some of the signings, but I am a fan of them trying to add veterans that they believe will help them run what they want to run and win. I was never a fan of any of those players, but I would rather they sign vets rather than giving up. 

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38 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

There is not a player on this roster that is more talented than Pau Gasol or Rudy Gay were when they were here. Heck, I would argue that perhaps Conley and Gasol are as or slightly more talented than Z-Bo in his prime. How in the world can you even post something so ill informed? And you say that I can't be taken seriously? Yeah , OK.

 

I see I shouldn't have wasted my time.

One of the things that has kept me coming back to this board for years is that the folks who keep it going are generally pretty respectful of one another, especially relative to bathroom stall level of discourse that the internet tends to be.

Don't treat this board like a bathroom stall.

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50 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

There is not a player on this roster that is more talented than Pau Gasol or Rudy Gay were when they were here. Heck, I would argue that perhaps Conley and Gasol are as or slightly more talented than Z-Bo in his prime. How in the world can you even post something so ill informed? And you say that I can't be taken seriously? Yeah , OK.

Rudy has never been more talented than Tyreke.  Marc is on par with Pau and Zbo so is Mike.    Tony isn't as talent level with any of them.  

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50 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I'm not a fan of some of the signings, but I am a fan of them trying to add veterans that they believe will help them run what they want to run and win. I was never a fan of any of those players, but I would rather they sign vets rather than giving up. 

Its not a matter of giving up. Its a matter of making a data based decision about the future of this team. Unless you could get in on the "super team" sweepstakes last and this Summer, what you could field as far as a team in the west is little more than training camp competition for the elite teams, relatively speaking. So, you could invest max contracts for a team that can't possibly contend for a championship and if the health cards and balls bounce right , could squeak by with an 8th playoff spot, or you could trade the tradable assets, get draft picks, invest in younger and elite talent and see the elite teams in a few years when their rosters age and get weaker due to attrition. You tell me what's the best move?   

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16 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

 

I see I shouldn't have wasted my time.

One of the things that has kept me coming back to this board for years is that the folks who keep it going are generally pretty respectful of one another, especially relative to bathroom stall level of discourse that the internet tends to be.

Don't treat this board like a bathroom stall.

Wow, a bathroom stall? I reply to your swipe at me about taking me seriously and I'm treating this site like a bathroom stall? Ok. I'd hate to see how you'd fare over on the titans Boards, this is kids stuff compared to how they come at dissenting opinions LOL!!!!

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7 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Its not a matter of giving up. Its a matter of making a data based decision about the future of this team. Unless you could get in on the "super team" sweepstakes last and this Summer, what you could field as far as a team in the west is little more than training camp competition for the elite teams, relatively speaking. So, you could invest max contracts for a team that can't possibly contend for a championship and if the health cards and balls bounce right , could squeak by with an 8th playoff spot, or you could trade the tradable assets, get draft picks, invest in younger and elite talent and see the elite teams in a few years when their rosters age and get weaker due to attrition. You tell me what's the best move?   

Exactly. You are gonna have to go lottery soon. I would rather play the lottery game with a full deck like Boston did when they traded KG/Pierce for 3 picks and Rondo for Crowder and picks...but thats just me. I can give up 2 or 3 years of 8th seed at best basketball to get a leg up on what you are going to have to do anyway. But again, just a matter of preference I see.

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14 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Exactly. You are gonna have to go lottery soon. I would rather play the lottery game with a full deck like Boston did when they traded KG/Pierce for 3 picks and Rondo for Crowder and picks...but thats just me. I can give up 2 or 3 years of 8th seed at best basketball to get a leg up on what you are going to have to do anyway. But again, just a matter of preference I see.

At this point, its the best you can ask for. Though I do believe that If they had invested in a strong low post game, they had the recipe to beat the Dubs with Grit n Grind, if but Gasol had any low post game. But for now, years of mismanagement have finally caught up with the team. I just hope it can last in Memphis until they get some more elite talent on the roster.

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1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Its not a matter of giving up. Its a matter of making a data based decision about the future of this team. Unless you could get in on the "super team" sweepstakes last and this Summer, what you could field as far as a team in the west is little more than training camp competition for the elite teams, relatively speaking. So, you could invest max contracts for a team that can't possibly contend for a championship and if the health cards and balls bounce right , could squeak by with an 8th playoff spot, or you could trade the tradable assets, get draft picks, invest in younger and elite talent and see the elite teams in a few years when their rosters age and get weaker due to attrition. You tell me what's the best move?   

Obviously it is not "giving up." Probably a bad choice of words. Rebuilds have possibilities, sure. You draft higher so you have a better chance of getting a good player. But I think you are stretching much too wide what the rebuilding process can accomplish.

The main purpose of a rebuild is to get younger, and to get better quality of rookies. It doesn't solve super teams in any real way, nor does guarantee that you can field a team better than what the grizzlies have right now.

Super teams are only going to be solved when Adam Silver wants them solved and he doesn't look like he has any indication that he wants to solve them.

Now maybe the grizzlies would EVENTUALLY get to where they are now, and maybe they wouldn't. But at least acknowledge the risk. Any player better than Mike or Marc has no guarantee he wouldn't bolt after 6 years. That is a reality you MUST deal with. There are also the possibility that the grizzlies would never draft a player as good as Mike or Marc. Super teams aren't going away. And these are just a few of the challenges, not to mention that building a playoff worthy team takes A LOT of time.

So when you say that I am forgoing the "data-based" decision. Am I? Am I just looking through the rose-colored glasses at my favorite player. Really? I think there are significant challenges any direction the grizzlies go.  

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The lottery reform makes it a perfect time to tank because now they only have to be awful to get a top pick instead of horrible trash.

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8 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

The lottery reform makes it a perfect time to tank because now they only have to be awful to get a top pick instead of horrible trash.

How do we become just awful?

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It wasn't so bad.  Chalmers is back.  Baldwin even showed a few things.  Martin is finally coming around.

 

Chancun still runs like the tin man when he can't the oil can.  I can sympathize but after all, I'm a couple of decades older and not a pro athlete.  Sometimes I do good to walk the dog early in the mornings.  Maybe Parsons' next career will be walking dogs.

Can somebody tell Davis to rebound and play D without ever shooting the ball on the offensive end?  0-6 - ?? Right by the bucket too.

 

 

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