PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

I have to give Wallace his props..this team really has few flaw besides injury concerns

Recommended Posts

On 10/1/2017 at 3:00 AM, smit-tay griz said:

So I guess that practices and scrimmages are worthless because a coach could not possibly tell if a player was ready, or even close to being ready.

I think that people who think the coach needs to play every player don't trust the coach and just want to second guess him.

Apparently they were with Joerger. And don't forget, they don't really have a lot of time to work with players once the season starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Mike Conley and Marc Gasol were developed. JaMychal Green developed. 

I can’t disagree that the GM and coach share responsibility for this but I put the majority of blame on the front office for not finding talent to develop more than a coach under the gun to win immediately choosing veterans over rookies.

 

What irritates me about this discussion is that the available information is always in the favor of the argument just made. 

For illustration, we all know the maxim that a negative can't be proven. In the case of "undeveloped" NBA talent, or young talent that doesn't pan out, the only information available is that the player didn't work out. But, we have almost no information available to us to tell us why. So, the easiest conclusion is that it was the player's fault, alone. And for anyone trying to make the argument that, any "x" player was a good prospect in a bad situation, there's basically no information readily available to make that argument. So, generally speaking, the argument always reverts back to what you just concluded so succinctly: the talent was never there in the first place. 

I actually think there could be a big business in trying to track and illuminate this discussion with more relevant information. And I do wonder what NBA franchises are already pouring into this department.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Herodotus said:

 

What irritates me about this discussion is that the available information is always in the favor of the argument just made. 

For illustration, we all know the maxim that a negative can't be proven. In the case of "undeveloped" NBA talent, or young talent that doesn't pan out, the only information available is that the player didn't work out. But, we have almost no information available to us to tell us why. So, the easiest conclusion is that it was the player's fault, alone. And for anyone trying to make the argument that, any "x" player was a good prospect in a bad situation, there's basically no information readily available to make that argument. So, generally speaking, the argument always reverts back to what you just concluded so succinctly: the talent was never there in the first place. 

I actually think there could be a big business in trying to track and illuminate this discussion with more relevant information. And I do wonder what NBA franchises are already pouring into this department.  

Yes, thank you that sums it up perfectly.  It is just easy to assume that coach would have played him if he was good and he didn't have the talent, wouldn't listen, didn't work hard enough, but the only proof of that is that the coach didn't play him.  And there are other factors.  What if the coach was trying to plug a square peg into a round hole?  Eg, taking a scoring point guard and trying to make him a pass first pg.  You can say "well that's coaches system, point guards gotta set people", but we all know darn well that as soon as the same coach acquires Lou Williams he is going to let him loose with no questions asked!

Another example I thought of is CJ McCullom.  He sat on the Portland bench for 1+ years, did nothing and when he got in, he wasn't allowed to do much of anything.  About 3 or 4 players on Portland's team got hurt right before the playoffs a few years and it forced coach to not only play him but let him loose.  Come to find out he was better at putting the ball in the hole than almost everyone on the team except Lilliard.  Now what happens if those guys never get hurt?  Then we are sitting here talking about how he "didn't have the talent" lol.  And do you think that he really wasn't showing anything in practice?  Really, he was just not cutting it in practice at all, showing nothing, but let him go in games and he lights it up.

Plain and simple, coach probably didn't like his style, so he didn't play him much and let him do what he does.  That is clear.  And I think that is what happens in a lot of cases.  Some guys can play, but the coach just doesn't like his style or doesn't see a need to try and develop him and isn't interested in long term gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Herodotus said:

 

What irritates me about this discussion is that the available information is always in the favor of the argument just made. 

For illustration, we all know the maxim that a negative can't be proven. In the case of "undeveloped" NBA talent, or young talent that doesn't pan out, the only information available is that the player didn't work out. But, we have almost no information available to us to tell us why. So, the easiest conclusion is that it was the player's fault, alone. And for anyone trying to make the argument that, any "x" player was a good prospect in a bad situation, there's basically no information readily available to make that argument. So, generally speaking, the argument always reverts back to what you just concluded so succinctly: the talent was never there in the first place. 

I actually think there could be a big business in trying to track and illuminate this discussion with more relevant information. And I do wonder what NBA franchises are already pouring into this department.  

I suppose we’ll get our chance over the next two seasons with Ben McLemore.

There was a report a few years ago showing which coaches actually make a postitive impact on their players. Coach Pops led the way with Pat Riley in 2nd I believe. Then a huge glob of coaches that weren’t positive or negative influences. They judged how players performed with the team versus how they performed after they left or before they came. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2017 at 11:00 PM, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

looks like I'm gonna be bumping this thread all season....we just gotta stay healthy.

Health has been one of the largest issues with the roster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2017 at 3:41 PM, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

I know a lot of ppl are down on the team for next season...so I took me grizz glasses off and just looked at the team and how they fit...and I have to give Wallace his credit...he actually but together a team that could be quit dangerous...this team really has very few flaws

3pt shooting CHECK:

gasol 38.8%                     martin 36%

conley 40.7%                   mclemore 38.2%

daniels 38.9%                  parsons 37%

ennis 37.2%                      jam 38.2%

FT Shooting Check:
our worst ft shooters are wright/davis/Sheldon (Sheldon could improve) hit below 65% of there free throws everbody else on the team shoots ATLEASE 75% from the line...we actually have a few guys hitting in the high 80's area

Athletes:

mclemore               davis                      baldwin

martin                     seldom                   jam

wright                      conley

ennis                       gasol dare I say

you could add reke and parson to this list if they knees hold up

Playmakers Check:

conley                     harrison

gasol

parson

reke

chalmers

Above average size at ever position Check:

pg- Harrison/reke 6'6

sg- ennis 6'7 jam 6.9 and yes I do believe jam could play some two guard because of his ability to play above average defense on the perimeter for his size

sf-parsons 6'10

pf-wright/davis 6'10

gasol-7'1

Defense Check:

I know some people was on Wallace but for getting the same type of players,but I think its by design because we have a lot of guys that can switch a lot of thing on the defensive end...plus we always seen to have a niche at playing great team defense

the only thing I see the team having problems with is rebounding...jam is prob our best rebounder and he is not elite at it..but I can see our rebounding flaw not being a big deal because I can see our offsene being that good.

 

your thoughts grizzsnation

I know its early but you're starting to look like a genius for this thread!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Michael D said:

I know its early but you're starting to look like a genius for this thread!

Only thing he missed was half court pnr

Check

Marc and Mike, best in the league 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, some of the flaws (or risks) that this thread didn't acknowledge have been avoided so far by developments nobody had foreseen:

- Rebounding: I hope nobody will have the gall to claim they saw Marc's improved rebounding coming. This is great news even if he doesn't sustain his preseason/early regular games RPG numbers (his current numbers would have him a top 5 rebounder last season).

- Inexperience: Brooks and to a smaller extent Jmart have began the season firing on all cylinders and in Brooks' case he's showing a poise more typical of a veteran. Ennis while not exactly inexperienced is taking over the starting SF role with high marks.

- Lack of chemistry: Instead of the chemistry problems that could be expected due to the departure of ZBo, TA and VC, it looks like the whole team is buying into Fizdale's ideas, and I'm positively surprised by the overall willingness of sharing the ball. Even Tyreke, who could be seen as a mini-black hole, has stopped trying to go it alone and has started kicking the ball to the perimeter with great success.

Regardless, the OP has earned the right to bump this thread and I hope he does it often.

As an aside, I think we have a new captain of the Sunshine Patrol. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

To be honest, some of the flaws (or risks) that this thread didn't acknowledge have been avoided so far by developments nobody had foreseen:

- Rebounding: I hope nobody will have the gall to claim they saw Marc's improved rebounding coming. This is great news even if he doesn't sustain his preseason/early regular games RPG numbers (his current numbers would have him a top 5 rebounder last season).

- Inexperience: Brooks and to a smaller extent Jmart have began the season firing on all cylinders and in Brooks' case he's showing a poise more typical of a veteran. Ennis while not exactly inexperienced is taking over the starting SF role with high marks.

- Lack of chemistry: Instead of the chemistry problems that could be expected due to the departure of ZBo, TA and VC, it looks like the whole team is buying into Fizdale's ideas, and I'm positively surprised by the overall willingness of sharing the ball. Even Tyreke, who could be seen as a mini-black hole, has stopped trying to go it alone and has started kicking the ball to the perimeter with great success.

Regardless, the OP has earned the right to bump this thread and I hope he does it often.

As an aside, I think we have a new captain of the Sunshine Patrol. ;)

I think a few of us realized that a second year under fizz the team was going to improve. To me, that was a given. Just dont try and soften the crow most people on this board need to be eating. For 3 years many on this board thought there was nothing but a dead end keeping mike and marc. And no way we could draft anybody good or develop anybody good.

And while winning a game again gs in the second game of the season really isnt validating anything so early on, the reports of the grizzlies demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

To be honest, some of the flaws (or risks) that this thread didn't acknowledge have been avoided so far by developments nobody had foreseen:

- Rebounding: I hope nobody will have the gall to claim they saw Marc's improved rebounding coming. This is great news even if he doesn't sustain his preseason/early regular games RPG numbers (his current numbers would have him a top 5 rebounder last season).

- Inexperience: Brooks and to a smaller extent Jmart have began the season firing on all cylinders and in Brooks' case he's showing a poise more typical of a veteran. Ennis while not exactly inexperienced is taking over the starting SF role with high marks.

- Lack of chemistry: Instead of the chemistry problems that could be expected due to the departure of ZBo, TA and VC, it looks like the whole team is buying into Fizdale's ideas, and I'm positively surprised by the overall willingness of sharing the ball. Even Tyreke, who could be seen as a mini-black hole, has stopped trying to go it alone and has started kicking the ball to the perimeter with great success.

Regardless, the OP has earned the right to bump this thread and I hope he does it often.

As an aside, I think we have a new captain of the Sunshine Patrol. ;)

Chemistry could be an issue still to come. Parsons complained to Tillery about his playing time today. 
 

Quote

“It sucks right now playing 15 minutes a night to be honest with you,” Parsons said. “But they have a plan in place that, hopefully, I’ll be playing big minutes when it matters.”

Oh and Tyreke Evans has been added to the injury list for tonight's game with a knee contusion so the injury issues are still hanging around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyreke looked fine at the end of the game Saturday, they said he is out with a knee bruise, I'm guessing swelling, I hope it's nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Michael D said:

I know its early but you're starting to look like a genius for this thread!

naw man...I just had a hard time thinking a healthy team lead by mike/gasol/parson/reke/wright/jam/mclemore wouldn't be a playoff team...plus I didn't think our young guy were garage...and chalmers wasn't even in my equation so that's a plus.

and being honest I didn't think we would be playing this good this early...shocking me to be honest...but I did think we would be a pretty dangerous team after allstar break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope Parsons keeps doing what he needs to do to earn those big minutes when they count.  Right now Dillon Brooks is ahead of him in that category!:o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Chemistry could be an issue still to come. Parsons complained to Tillery about his playing time today. 
 

Oh and Tyreke Evans has been added to the injury list for tonight's game with a knee contusion so the injury issues are still hanging around. 

Smh @ Parsons one man pity party. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Parsons complained to Tillery about his playing time today. 

I didn't read that as anything but "it sucks that I'm not yet ready to play more" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hate to be that guy..but I'm reserving my optimism.  Marc comes out looking hot, MVP, to start every year. Defense looks incredible to start every year.

 

Then we just fall off a cliff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

Hate to be that guy..but I'm reserving my optimism.  Marc comes out looking hot, MVP, to start every year. Defense looks incredible to start every year.

 

Then we just fall off a cliff.

Not this crap again...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Team looks awesome. For the record I predicted 45 wins before the season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the record I predicted 38 and couldn’t be happier I look wrong so far. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I predict a 15-1 start. Then a small skid..then near 50-50 ball like always.  End up 7th seed. Exit first/2nd round.  I've learned not to get excited when we start out good.

 

You guys are like clockwork.  "Marc looks like an MVP this year! Something is different!" 

 

3 months later he's the most stressfull member on the team and then falls flat in the playoffs after a couple games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now