Sign in to follow this  
Blackwatch

Fizz goes off !!!

Recommended Posts

tangogriz    0
14 hours ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Isn't it something that just about all the forefathers of this country owned slaves? People are still being bought and sold around the world. I really wonder how many people even look at those statues anyhow, I don't ever look at statues, you should be keeping your eye on the road.

No, maybe half of the signers were slave holders. It pretty much aligns with economic system, along North-South lines.

The image of the road is a good one. We are traveling America's road together. Along the way, usually up high, in places of esteem, we leave markers to remember things that we respect and admire. These statues are not the way to memorialize our worst sin.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Here's the definition of browbeat:

You said Fizz was browbeating you. Those are your words. I understand the definition perfectly well. 

You're right, history is messy. I'm not saying whitewash it and I don't agree with those who do (although you yourself just tried to whitewash slavery by stating the the very real treatment of them was making them look like victims). I said put the statues in a museum somewhere. Just as history is messy and you seem to be fine with that, people are inconsistent. So if you view Fizz as being inconsistent oh well, that's natural human behavior. Why can't you accept it and move on? Someone asked him a specific question, he replied and gave his opinion. I have no idea how that is browbeating you or being inconsistent. Was he asked a specific question about Mt. Rushmore?

Actually, if you feel that the only way to speak about slaves is in the context of lynching, jim crow, etc., or otherwise it is whitewashing, you and I have a fundamental disagreement.

It's just like this, when Cornell West was describing Ralph Ellisons essay a world in a jug, which was a response to Irving Howe's criticism of James Baldwin and himself. Irving Howe believed that the only TRUE expression of blackness was in the form of BIGGER THOMAS, a self loathing man and a victim of his circumstance. Howe could not conceive of a black man not having constant hate and procupation with it. Thus he criticized Ralph's book for being out of touch with reality. That he was being a house you know what, whitewashing basically.

West says that Ralph was like, "no, Charlie Parker not thinking about racism, he takes as a given and keeps on doing his thing."

Speaking about the ingenuity of slaves doesn't discount what was done to them. Not talking about their accomplishments however does.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/17/2017 at 0:28 PM, chipc3 said:

While I agree with Fizdale's sentiment. I don't believe he should be entering this arena of political discussion any more than Pops should have in San Antonio. Pops at least has a long standing record of success at what he does in his job. Fizdale's a basketball coach not a civic leader. Leave the politics to the politicians and focus on winning basketball games. 

Having said that I do agree with his sentiment and I hope we can come to some agreement that removes offensive memorabilia and replaces it with memorials that unite us together rather than divide our communities. 

spot on Chip.  Of course, Fiz can have an opinion and he is free to voice it.  And he makes some good points, but now that he has said it, IMHO he needs to step back and concentrate on getting Marc and Chandler and Mike to mesh together.  Fiz did his duty to say his peace.  He cant be accused of being quiet about social issues of the day, but now he needs to worry about how he is going to smooth over what is going to be a very tense relationship between JaMychal Green and the Grizz since it seems that the Grizz are determined to use every bit of leverage to beat JaMychal into total submission and pay him the puny qualifying offer of $2.8M.   Fiz is going to have to somehow get Green to be interested in the success of the Grizzlies rather than just biding his time til he is unrestricted and will jet out of Memphis from TA's great airport, which will be a tall order considering how CWallace et al are letting him twist in the wind. So Fiz has more pressing things on his plate than confederate monuments in Memphis.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas    0
13 hours ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

People have been obsessed with race well before you, I or anyone else on this board was born, well before social media. This is nothing new. It's been going on since before this country was even founded. 

True I guess it's just never been so mainstream, at least not in my lifetime. Art, music, politics, etc. - it's all been infiltrated by an obsession with race. It's all so silly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MemphisX    0
12 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

My general feeling is that slaves were some amazing people who did extraordinary things for this country, but because their entire existence seems to be to be a device to shed light on what was done to them, they are always having to play one role in the story, the victim role.

If I could change one thing about the race conversation I would change this: rather than talking about the senseless acts done to them, I would talk about their accomplishments to America and society in general.

I also think that Henry Louis Gates Jr also believes this and with his pbs series he continues to shed light on the real stuff that they did, and it is amazing.

That's just silliness. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MemphisX said:

That's just silliness. 

Actually it is not. Slaves were not JUST victims. They were people who had goals and dreams just like everybody else. Maybe you should watch the Henry Louis Gates Jr show on PBS and get a clue.

But if you want your ancestors to only be known as lynching victims, burned at the stake, rapped, beaten, etc. I am sorry for ya. That **** is some tired nonsense. Did it happen, sure. But there was a lot of other stuff that happened to.

Of course, when Ralph Ellison was saying this, he got the same pushback as you are giving me. They called him an uncle tom because he wanted to talk about the accomplishments of these people.

So, I don't expect I will change your opinion either on it.

You probably feel that the only way to show the evilness of the south and plantations and white people, is to make sure that a slave never becomes anything but a victim of his or her circumstances, regardless of the truth.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MemphisX    0
11 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Actually it is not. Slaves were not JUST victims. They were people who had goals and dreams just like everybody else. Maybe you should watch the Henry Louis Gates Jr show on PBS and get a clue.

But if you want your ancestors to only be known as lynching victims, burned at the stake, rapped, beaten, etc. I am sorry for ya. That **** is some tired nonsense. Did it happen, sure. But there was a lot of other stuff that happened to.

Of course, when Ralph Ellison was saying this, he got the same pushback as you are giving me. They called him an uncle tom because he wanted to talk about the accomplishments of these people.

So, I don't expect I will change your opinion either on it.

You probably feel that the only way to show the evilness of the south and plantations and white people, is to make sure that a slave never becomes anything but a victim of his or her circumstances, regardless of the truth.

 

 

More silliness.

Hey, next tell us how the Jews who were put in concentration camps and ovens should be known for their accomplishments. We shouldn't talk about the holocaust anymore, we should celebrate the achievements gained in the concentration camps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

More silliness.

Hey, next tell us how the Jews who were put in concentration camps and ovens should be known for their accomplishments. We shouldn't talk about the holocaust anymore, we should celebrate the achievements gained in the concentration camps.

Actually we should. I would much rather hear about those stories.

My point of view is to give a face to slaves. Here is a scenario for you. Take a 12 year African American girl in a history class, and the discussion of slavery comes up. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to her sense of self worth to know that her ancestors did amazing things rather than talk about the whipping post.

Im not enough of a scholar to tell you everything, but when Henry Louis Gates Jr goes back, he finds fascinating things about what slaves were doing despite the horrifying things of slavery. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MemphisX said:

More silliness.

Hey, next tell us how the Jews who were put in concentration camps and ovens should be known for their accomplishments. We shouldn't talk about the holocaust anymore, we should celebrate the achievements gained in the concentration camps.

Do you even know why Hitler had such a hate for Jewish people? Because they financed both side in WW1, they were only interested in the money!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Do you even know why Hitler had such a hate for Jewish people? Because they financed both side in WW1, they were only interested in the money!!!!

The truly sad thing is we know more about Hitler than we do about the people he killed.

I'd take 100 Kurt Vonnegut books and Norman Mailer books, and Anne Frank books, than 1 history lesson about hitler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/18/2017 at 7:37 PM, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Well, my folks fought for the North, we come from a county in the south that didn't secede from the Union but I think this is a part of American history from its' darkest moments. We had a relative who died in Anderson Prison. Where would and what David Fizzdale be if his ancestors hadn't been brought to this country, I don't see how being a basketball coach makes him a civic leader. Native Americans were treated worse than black people., they just slaughtered them. I wonder how many black people know anything about the Trail of Tears. Some of those people were my ancestors too.  Tearing down those statues is not going to make racism go away.

1

Riiiight because everyone who lives on the continent of Africa lives in a mud hut and is starving right? Over 55 countries and 1.2 billion people, all of them starving right? Fizzdale needs to thank those great Europeans for enslaving his ancestors is what you're really saying. There are cities on the continent of Africa that are better off than the city of Memphis and they would look down on Memphis as an impoverished, uneducated city. They are so many things wrong with that one statement that I don't even want to begin to go down that road. 

12 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Actually it is not. Slaves were not JUST victims. They were people who had goals and dreams just like everybody else. Maybe you should watch the Henry Louis Gates Jr show on PBS and get a clue.

But if you want your ancestors to only be known as lynching victims, burned at the stake, rapped, beaten, etc. I am sorry for ya. That **** is some tired nonsense. Did it happen, sure. But there was a lot of other stuff that happened to.

Of course, when Ralph Ellison was saying this, he got the same pushback as you are giving me. They called him an uncle tom because he wanted to talk about the accomplishments of these people.

So, I don't expect I will change your opinion either on it.

You probably feel that the only way to show the evilness of the south and plantations and white people, is to make sure that a slave never becomes anything but a victim of his or her circumstances, regardless of the truth.

 

 

Great. so you watched Henry Louis Gates on PBS and Cornel West somewhere so now you're an African American Studies scholar?

Your line of thinking is the same line of thinking where the state of Texas was trying to rewrite history by saying that "African immigrants immigrated to the U.S. for the chance at a better life and jobs" it's friggen ridiculous.  I'm pretty much finished with this topic because some of the content is really getting ridiculous. 

I'll end my posting with these 2 pieces of information for the 2 of you:

Was the Civil War About Slavery?

Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Riiiight because everyone who lives on the continent of Africa lives in a mud hut and is starving right? Over 55 countries and 1.2 billion people, all of them starving right? Fizzdale needs to thank those great Europeans for enslaving his ancestors is what you're really saying. There are cities on the continent of Africa that are better off than the city of Memphis and they would look down on Memphis as an impoverished, uneducated city. They are so many things wrong with that one statement that I don't even want to begin to go down that road. 

Great. so you watched Henry Louis Gates on PBS and Cornel West somewhere so now you're an African American Studies scholar?

Your line of thinking is the same line of thinking where the state of Texas was trying to rewrite history by saying that "African immigrants immigrated to the U.S. for the chance at a better life and jobs" it's friggen ridiculous.  I'm pretty much finished with this topic because some of the content is really getting ridiculous. 

I'll end my posting with these 2 pieces of information for the 2 of you:

Was the Civil War About Slavery?

Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

 

So because I suggested that slaves were actual people with dreams that they attempted to fulfill, I'm marching lock step with David Dukes? 

Or rather you seem to think I was saying that slavery was good for African Americans. When in actuality, all I am saying is that slaves accomplished extraordinary things despite slavery and not because of it. And those are the things I'm interested in.

Like when John Glenn told capcom that unless that smart girl tells me we are good to go, I ain't launching into space.

If all I knew about slavery was the whipping post i would have never known how pivotal Katherine Johnson was to our space program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael D    0

Everyone angry about Fizdale's comments conveniently glosses over the FACT that Nathan Bedford Forrest was the first Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan.  They did not just burn torches or crosses.  They lynched innocent black people.  The entire white communities showed up and took photos of the "strange fruit", i.e. black people's mutilated bodies hanging from the trees.  SMH.

The statues and anything else glorifying this mess needs to come down.  Regardless of what it means to white folks, it represents terrorism to the rest of us.  That's like telling Jews to get over it and accept monuments glorifying Hitler.  GTFOH with that mess!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael D    0
Just now, Michael D said:

Everyone angry about Fizdale's comments conveniently glosses over the FACT that Nathan Bedford Forrest was the first Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan.  They did not just burn torches or crosses.  They lynched innocent black people.  The entire white communities showed up and took photos of the "strange fruit", i.e. black people's mutilated bodies hanging from the trees.  SMH.

The statues and anything else glorifying this mess needs to come down.  Regardless of what it means to white folks, it represents terrorism to the rest of us.  That's like telling Jews to get over it and accept monuments glorifying Hitler.  GTFOH with that mess!

Why is that so hard to wrap your heads around guys?  It doesn't matter how you feel.  People died and were terrorized under those brands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Michael D said:

Everyone angry about Fizdale's comments conveniently glosses over the FACT that Nathan Bedford Forrest was the first Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan.  They did not just burn torches or crosses.  They lynched innocent black people.  The entire white communities showed up and took photos of the "strange fruit", i.e. black people's mutilated bodies hanging from the trees.  SMH.

The statues and anything else glorifying this mess needs to come down.  Regardless of what it means to white folks, it represents terrorism to the rest of us.  That's like telling Jews to get over it and accept monuments glorifying Hitler.  GTFOH with that mess!

He was also one if the greatest generals in the civil war on either side. And he died in Memphis.

I think donald Trump is a terrible human being who has demeaned woman, insulted Muslim Americans, used the system to not pay taxes. If there was a comparable person to a Klan member in this day and time, Trump would be the poster child.

I think Bill Cosby is a rapist. I think oj did it.

Look, if a statue has been up 100 years, it needs to stay up. Kids need to learn about forest, Robert e lee and Jefferson Davis.

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, but he also authored one of the most famous documents in history.

As I keep saying history is messy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bhoyal    0
1 hour ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Do you even know why Hitler had such a hate for Jewish people? Because they financed both side in WW1, they were only interested in the money!!!!

BS

You might want to get your info from a more reliable source.

Reality: Hitler viewed the Jews, along with other groups like Slavs and Gypsies as inferior to Aryans - just as tRump supporting white supremacists in the U.S. view all non-lilly-white non-Xtians as inferior because of their own low self esteem and dream up conspiracy theories in an attempt to validate their nonsense and scapegoat minority groups such as African American, Hispanics, Transgenders, Jews, Muslims, etc.

Insecurity was certainly a motivating factor in the case of racist personal failures turned mass murderers such at Tim McVeigh and Dylann Roof.  The redneck who killed the girl in Charlottesville had been tossed out of the Army after only a few months.   tRump made money but is as insecure as it gets.  Luckily the tragic mistake of him getting (sort of) elected will be over soon and we can have a somewhat less racist president in Pence until 2020 when a completely non-racist can be elected. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Look, if a statue has been up 100 years, it needs to stay up.  

In most, not all cases, the statues are less than 100 years old. The propaganda and intent of the original version of the motion picture Birth of A Nation has more in common than seeking to laud those men. They were erected not to honor these men but to incite fear in the local community. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dwash    0
15 minutes ago, Southern Dreadz said:

In most, not all cases, the statues are less than 100 years old. The propaganda and intent of the original version of the motion picture Birth of A Nation has more in common than seeking to laud those men. They were erected not to honor these men but to incite fear in the local community. 

Even still, I can see a reason to leave the statues up in order to remind us about history instead of erasing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Even still, I can see a reason to leave the statues up in order to remind us about history instead of erasing it.

They can easily be put in a museum to remind us of history. Once again, this story lays out when these statues were erected and why:

Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

I just don't see why something like that should be honored in public parks. It's fine for a museum though. Museums are for history. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

They can easily be put in a museum to remind us of history. Once again, this story lays out when these statues were erected and why:

Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

I just don't see why something like that should be honored in public parks. It's fine for a museum though. Museums are for history. 

But yet you say put them in museums? It would either have to be PUBLIC museums or someone would have to do it with private money, they'd still be where black people could still see them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bhoyal said:

BS

You might want to get your info from a more reliable source.

Reality: Hitler viewed the Jews, along with other groups like Slavs and Gypsies as inferior to Aryans - just as tRump supporting white supremacists in the U.S. view all non-lilly-white non-Xtians as inferior because of their own low self esteem and dream up conspiracy theories in an attempt to validate their nonsense and scapegoat minority groups such as African American, Hispanics, Transgenders, Jews, Muslims, etc.

Insecurity was certainly a motivating factor in the case of racist personal failures turned mass murderers such at Tim McVeigh and Dylann Roof.  The redneck who killed the girl in Charlottesville had been tossed out of the Army after only a few months.   tRump made money but is as insecure as it gets.  Luckily the tragic mistake of him getting (sort of) elected will be over soon and we can have a somewhat less racist president in Pence until 2020 when a completely non-racist can be elected. 

 

How do you know yours is any more reliable than mine?

https://thedaysofnoah.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/the-rothschild-1901-1919-the-secret-creators-of-world-war-1/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this