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Fizz goes off !!!

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10 hours ago, Dwash said:

But that speaks to the problem. For those that dont care or are impacted, race issues are seen as a mere nuisance. Just brushing them off as "politics" is insulting when its beyond a few law changes. Its a systematic oppression that has torn apart a community. How can you expect every athlete to turn a blind eye to the fact that you love me cause I can play but I know I would likely just be a part of the system if I couldnt? Sorry they feel that they have to interrupt your fun and put it on front street.

How is anyone being relegated systematically because they can't play sports? 

I must admit I have never seen the offending statue here in Memphis or if I have seen it I never bothered to find out what the statue represented. It was just a statue in a park. There are tons of statues in parks around Memphis and I have never thought who each represented or why.  

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with taking down the offensive statues. I just want to know what we can do to change this perception of diversity and become more inclusive.

I think a grand and easy first step would be to rename Confederate Park to something that better reflects the city and it's people. Get people involved to raise the funds needed to take out the statues and replace them with nice (and non-offensive) pieces of art for the time being. Memphis has a thriving art community. A contest could be held to find replacements. Let's not forget the statue is ultimately just a piece of art. It is a decoration to improve the beauty of the surroundings and make it enjoyable for those who visit. We can have another decoration and in a very short period of time people will forget what was there before. 

This - in my naive and uneducated opinion - would show build a stronger community than advocating to just remove a statue without offering an option on how to replace it.

In my eyes, the very name 'Confederate Park' is more offensive than the statue in it. What statue would you expect to be placed in something called 'Confederate Park' anyway?  Change the park's name, remove the war memorabilia and statues associated with the most divisive event to happen in the US and create something everyone can enjoy. Support inclusion and harmony not division and war. Put the war memorabilia in a museum where it belongs preferably in the basement and lock the door. 

It's just my opinion of course. I realize others believe that tearing things down and/or having empty spaces where works of art used to be is enough. I just hope our real leaders in the community go beyond the destructive act to create something that can unite the community instead. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

I bet if asked the organization would back him up

Of course they would. They wouldn't stay in Trump-branded hotels either. This is not just Fizz, it's also Pop and Steve Kerr and LeBron and Kevin Durant. it is really crazy what is going on in this country and it's funny how people say the statues should stay up so we don't repeat history. We are already repeating history as evidenced by this 1947 anti-Fascist propaganda piece put out by the U.S. War Department.  Add in Latinos and Muslims and you can't tell if the film was made in 1947 or 2017. 

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22 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Well, the "champagne dreams on a beer budget" comment was true. I agree with Fizz's comments that we need to take down statues honoring the Confederacy. He mentions that Dr. King was killed in Memphis, that's a fact. He mentions that the Civil Rights Museum is in Memphis, that's a fact. It's his opinion that it's a disgrace to have statues honoring a failed, rogue splinter nation in Memphis and I agree with him. The Confederacy was a failed, rogue, splinter nation that took up arms against the U.S.A and spilled the blood of U.S. citizens, over 625,000 people were killed as a result of that war. Why in the world should we honor a faction like that? I'm fine with putting all of that in a museum but to honor them with statues in public parks? That's ridiculous. They should be taken down, put them in a museum somewhere. How many countries honor people from the side that lost in a civil war? it makes no sense. 

Spot On! Bango!  

That has always been my argument when a certain segment of the population want to pretend like honoring The Confederacy is only about tradition and Southern Pride.   I am Southern and i take NO pride in the Confederacy, period.   Raising those flags and statues has always been rooted in intimidation and racist tactics.   Anybody that so calls "Loves America" should be against memorializing enemies of the country.  How many King Edward statues are there in the US?  ZERO.    How many George Washington statues are there in London? ZERO.   So why are we honoring Enemies of our nation all over our country?   Because of what they symbolize that's why and what do they symbolize? Civil War or division of the country and Slavery (black people were considered less than human).  That wasn't an honorable war for the South and shouldn't be celebrated as such.    People promoting Pride in the Confederacy and it's symbology understand it's underlining message.   It's just like those folks marching with Tiki Torches are completely aware of the symbolism behind that too.   

A symbol is a mark, sign, or word that indicates, signifies, or is understood as representing an idea, object, or relationship. Symbols allow people to go beyond what is known or seen by creating linkages between otherwise very different concepts and experiences.

It's 2017 everyone is fully aware of what symbols represent.

11 hours ago, Dwash said:

But that speaks to the problem. For those that dont care or are impacted, race issues are seen as a mere nuisance. Just brushing them off as "politics" is insulting when its beyond a few law changes. Its a systematic oppression that has torn apart a community. How can you expect every athlete to turn a blind eye to the fact that you love me cause I can play but I know I would likely just be a part of the system if I couldnt? Sorry they feel that they have to interrupt your fun and put it on front street.

Exactly.  Unfortunately, no matter how much fame and money an athlete has they are still identified first by their race.   It is no fault of their own but it's the system that we live in (originated by this country).   If you or people you care about are being directly impacted by injustice then you have every right to bring attention to that whenever you can.   There will be repercussions depending on the situation but that doesn't change the fact that speaking out is the right thing to do.   I applaud Fizz for speaking up. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I might have changed my position on this, because while I don't think fizz should be sticking his nose in it, I also didn't know that some guy put Nathan Bedford Forrest statute up in 2013.

It'd be different if it was a 100 year old statue. But clearly the owner of that statue has a statement he is trying to make, which I don't appreciate.

The statue in downtown Memphis was erected in 1905. That meets your 100 year old threshold.

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On 8/18/2017 at 10:17 AM, Stu Podaso said:

The statue in downtown Memphis was erected in 1905. That meets your 100 year old threshold.

Statue still needs to go. Confederate Park needed to be renamed. People need to work together to find some other artwork to put in the parks that encourages our city to come together. 

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2 hours ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Well, the "champagne dreams on a beer budget" comment was true. I agree with Fizz's comments that we need to take down statues honoring the Confederacy. He mentions that Dr. King was killed in Memphis, that's a fact. He mentions that the Civil Rights Museum is in Memphis, that's a fact. It's his opinion that it's a disgrace to have statues honoring a failed, rogue splinter nation in Memphis and I agree with him. The Confederacy was a failed, rogue, splinter nation that took up arms against the U.S.A and spilled the blood of U.S. citizens, over 625,000 people were killed as a result of that war. Why in the world should we honor a faction like that? I'm fine with putting all of that in a museum but to honor them with statues in public parks? That's ridiculous. They should be taken down, put them in a museum somewhere. How many countries honor people from the side that lost in a civil war? it makes no sense. 

This is what people want to honor and/or defend and/or get upset with someone who says we shouldn't honor these people? You have a problem with someone saying, "take down statues" that honor the people who caused this calamity in our nation? We are all people and this affects all of our lives. It doesn't matter if you are a street sweeper or a physician or an NBA head coach or a taxi driver. You don't just live your profession 100% of your life. They are humans and as a human, Fizz is asking the people of the city of Memphis to do the decent, rightful thing. Put them in a museum somewhere, I don't care if private money put them up. They should have never been put up in the first place. oh and let's not forget that while some of these statues were erected during Reconstruction, a large number of these statues just happened to be erected during the time of the Civil Rights movement in this country and the Confederate battle flag which lay dormant for nearly 100 years was coincidentally resurrected and brought back during the Civil Rights movement as well. I don't think those were coincidences.

Much appreciation. Cuts to the heart of the matter.

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21 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

People can walk and chew gum at the same time. It is impossible to be a black person in this country and just focus on you chosen profession. Racism and white supremacy characterize every aspect of our lives, whether we recognize it or not. Asking Fizz to "Leave the politics to the politicians" concerning this issue is like asking only chefs to cook or maids to clean. We all need to eat and clean, not just chefs and maids. I wish we had the luxury of not having to deal with these things, but we don't.

Exactly!

12 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Fizz has a prominent role in a organization. Right or wrong what he says affects the entire organization. Doesn't matter if it is the off-season, in a game, etc. The views he reflects directly affect the team regardless.

In my opinion, what he said and the stance he took is 10 times worse than Hollins off-the-cuff remark about Champagne dreams on a beer budget, but that's just me.

Dude, the NBA is like 90% black.  Fizdale is African American, so it's crazy to expect him (or any other African American) to be cool with a huge tribute to the first grand wizard of the Klu Klux Klan, Nathan Bedford Forrest.  Anyone that supports that stuff directly or indirectly supports the genocide and terrorism inflicted on black people.  So no, Fizdale does not need to lower his gaze and say no comment when asked about these symbols of racism.  It's not southern pride, dude was the freaking 1st grand wizard of the KKK.  That's like having a huge Hitler statue in a city full of jews.

Memphis is majority black, why do we have to see this? It doesn't represent pride, it represents terror, murder, and constant intimidation of being lynched.  Oops, I'm not supposed to say that though.  We should all just pretend it's cool when it's totally not cool.

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Maybe more people like Fizdale and anyone else considered a leader including the current mayor should speak up and get this stuff changed.  I get that everyone doesn't understand how horrible this stuff is/was for black people but ****.

A statue of the grand wizard of the KKK, in a majority black city, with heavy cultural influence from said black people???  Memphis owes a lot of its flavor and appeal to its black residents and we should celebrate the diversity and influence of all people regardless of race instead of making excuses to keep monuments to terrorism against African Americans.

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On 8/17/2017 at 3:46 PM, GF#1 said:

I agree with others that have said it's way more than just politics operating here. Also, I would give your thought some merit if the team were in the middle of a playoff series and it could potentially cause a distraction. It's August. His speaking out and voicing his opinions/concerns right now don't effect this team even in the slightest.

Well, my folks fought for the North, we come from a county in the south that didn't secede from the Union but I think this is a part of American history from its' darkest moments. We had a relative who died in Anderson Prison. Where would and what David Fizzdale be if his ancestors hadn't been brought to this country, I don't see how being a basketball coach makes him a civic leader. Native Americans were treated worse than black people., they just slaughtered them. I wonder how many black people know anything about the Trail of Tears. Some of those people were my ancestors too.  Tearing down those statues is not going to make racism go away.

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9 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Statue still needs to go. Confederate Park needs to be renamed. People need to work together to find some other artwork to put in the parks that encourages our city to come together. 

I think the best thing that could happen to black people is people paying them more money.

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10 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Spot On! Bango!  

That has always been my argument when a certain segment of the population want to pretend like honoring The Confederacy is only about tradition and Southern Pride.   I am Southern and i take NO pride in the Confederacy, period.   Raising those flags and statues has always been rooted in intimidation and racist tactics.   Anybody that so calls "Loves America" should be against memorializing enemies of the country.  How many King Edward statues are there in the US?  ZERO.    How many George Washington statues are there in London? ZERO.   So why are we honoring Enemies of our nation all over our country?   Because of what they symbolize that's why and what do they symbolize? Civil War or division of the country and Slavery (black people were considered less than human).  That wasn't an honorable war for the South and shouldn't be celebrated as such.    People promoting Pride in the Confederacy and it's symbology understand it's underlining message.   It's just like those folks marching with Tiki Torches are completely aware of the symbolism behind that too.   

A symbol is a mark, sign, or word that indicates, signifies, or is understood as representing an idea, object, or relationship. Symbols allow people to go beyond what is known or seen by creating linkages between otherwise very different concepts and experiences.

It's 2017 everyone is fully aware of what symbols represent.

Exactly.  Unfortunately, no matter how much fame and money an athlete has they are still identified first by their race.   It is no fault of their own but it's the system that we live in (originated by this country).   If you or people you care about are being directly impacted by injustice then you have every right to bring attention to that whenever you can.   There will be repercussions depending on the situation but that doesn't change the fact that speaking out is the right thing to do.   I applaud Fizz for speaking up. 

 

 

Do you really think Julius Erving is identified by his race? Denzel  Washington? Some are identified by their intellect.

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11 hours ago, chipc3 said:

How is anyone being relegated systematically because they can't play sports? 

I must admit I have never seen the offending statue here in Memphis or if I have seen it I never bothered to find out what the statue represented. It was just a statue in a park. There are tons of statues in parks around Memphis and I have never thought who each represented or why.  

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with taking down the offensive statues. I just want to know what we can do to change this perception of diversity and become more inclusive.

I think a grand and easy first step would be to rename Confederate Park to something that better reflects the city and it's people. Get people involved to raise the funds needed to take out the statues and replace them with nice (and non-offensive) pieces of art for the time being. Memphis has a thriving art community. A contest could be held to find replacements. Let's not forget the statue is ultimately just a piece of art. It is a decoration to improve the beauty of the surroundings and make it enjoyable for those who visit. We can have another decoration and in a very short period of time people will forget what was there before. 

This - in my naive and uneducated opinion - would show build a stronger community than advocating to just remove a statue without offering an option on how to replace it.

In my eyes, the very name 'Confederate Park' is more offensive than the statue in it. What statue would you expect to be placed in something called 'Confederate Park' anyway?  Change the park's name, remove the war memorabilia and statues associated with the most divisive event to happen in the US and create something everyone can enjoy. Support inclusion and harmony not division and war. Put the war memorabilia in a museum where it belongs preferably in the basement and lock the door. 

It's just my opinion of course. I realize others believe that tearing things down and/or having empty spaces where works of art used to be is enough. I just hope our real leaders in the community go beyond the destructive act to create something that can unite the community instead. 

 

 

You think they could get some Biblical orgy statues? Of course that would offend some people you know but as long as it doesn't offend you and I, who cares? :)

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I don't understand why everyone has become so obsessed with race. Study, research, read, watch real films, and learn instead of spending all this time focusing on this ridiculous ****. People have got to stop buying into the social/mainstream media narrative. Enough with this nonsense. The "elites" on top of the hill have made it clear that they're going to pull out all stops to divide and conquer us and we're blindly allowing them to do it.

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Isn't it something that just about all the forefathers of this country owned slaves? People are still being bought and sold around the world. I really wonder how many people even look at those statues anyhow, I don't ever look at statues, you should be keeping your eye on the road.

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I been seein a lot tweets on the timeline sayin just a lot of bull****. Good on Fizz as a public figure to sit down and actually speak constructively bout the situation. Wish some others would take note.

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22 hours ago, Stu Podaso said:

The statue in downtown Memphis was erected in 1905. That meets your 100 year old threshold.

If that is the case, it should stay, in my opinion.

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On 8/18/2017 at 8:24 AM, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Well, the "champagne dreams on a beer budget" comment was true. I agree with Fizz's comments that we need to take down statues honoring the Confederacy. He mentions that Dr. King was killed in Memphis, that's a fact. He mentions that the Civil Rights Museum is in Memphis, that's a fact. It's his opinion that it's a disgrace to have statues honoring a failed, rogue splinter nation in Memphis and I agree with him. The Confederacy was a failed, rogue, splinter nation that took up arms against the U.S.A and spilled the blood of U.S. citizens, over 625,000 people were killed as a result of that war. Why in the world should we honor a faction like that? I'm fine with putting all of that in a museum but to honor them with statues in public parks? That's ridiculous. They should be taken down, put them in a museum somewhere. How many countries honor people from the side that lost in a civil war? it makes no sense. 

This is what people want to honor and/or defend and/or get upset with someone who says we shouldn't honor these people? You have a problem with someone saying, "take down statues" that honor the people who caused this calamity in our nation? We are all people and this affects all of our lives. It doesn't matter if you are a street sweeper or a physician or an NBA head coach or a taxi driver. You don't just live your profession 100% of your life. They are humans and as a human, Fizz is asking the people of the city of Memphis to do the decent, rightful thing. Put them in a museum somewhere, I don't care if private money put them up. They should have never been put up in the first place. oh and let's not forget that while some of these statues were erected during Reconstruction, a large number of these statues just happened to be erected during the time of the Civil Rights movement in this country and the Confederate battle flag which lay dormant for nearly 100 years was coincidentally resurrected and brought back during the Civil Rights movement as well. I don't think those were coincidences.

You think the Confederacy was a rogue nation that took up arms against America? 

Lol. Don't get me wrong the south's treatment of African Americans were horrendous, but to act like the north was much better is crazy. The civil war tore this country apart.

One could also say that booker t Washington's rhetoric hurt African Americans as much or more than any one man has every done, but I'm fine with every other school being named after booker t Washington.

History is a messy business and if a statute has been up 1 hundred years, I certainly don't need fizdale to be my conscious and browbeat me. Just saying.

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12 hours ago, Thomas said:

I don't understand why everyone has become so obsessed with race. Study, research, read, watch real films, and learn instead of spending all this time focusing on this ridiculous ****. People have got to stop buying into the social/mainstream media narrative. Enough with this nonsense. The "elites" on top of the hill have made it clear that they're going to pull out all stops to divide and conquer us and we're blindly allowing them to do it.

People have been obsessed with race well before you, I or anyone else on this board was born, well before social media. This is nothing new. It's been going on since before this country was even founded. 

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34 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You think the Confederacy was a rogue nation that took up arms against America? 

Lol. Don't get me wrong the south's treatment of African Americans were horrendous, but to act like the north was much better is crazy. The civil war tore this country apart.

One could also say that booker t Washington's rhetoric get African Americans back as much or more than any one man has every done, but I'm fine with every other school being named after booker t Washington.

History is a messy business and if a statute has been up 1 hundred years, I certainly don't need fizdale to be my conscious and browbeat me. Just saying.

Where did I say the North was perfect? How is Fizzdale browbeating you? I'm sure he doesn't know you and doesn't care to know you. he just expressed his opinion. He doesn't care (well, neither do I) if you agree with him or not.

Men and women see the world differently, just as people from different ethnicities see the world differently, just as people from different socioeconomic classes see the world differently. Most people's world views are ingrained in them from a young age from the way they were brought up to who brought them up to the school system they learned in, etc. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on a Grizz board and I sure as heck don't think Fizzdale stating his opinion is browbeating anyone. if that's the case, why are you browbeating, me Fizzdale and anyone else who disagrees with you? I don't need you to be my conscience.

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14 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Where did I say the North was perfect? 

My general feeling is that slaves were some amazing people who did extraordinary things for this country, but because their entire existence seems to be to be a device to shed light on what was done to them, they are always having to play one role in the story, the victim role.

If I could change one thing about the race conversation I would change this: rather than talking about the senseless acts done to them, I would talk about their accomplishments to America and society in general.

I also think that Henry Louis Gates Jr also believes this and with his pbs series he continues to shed light on the real stuff that they did, and it is amazing.

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What if the Confederate War statues were replaced with NASCAR and pro wrestling statues?  Could that make everyone happy?

Is it too early to replace Forrest with Lawler and rename Confederate Park to Coliseum Park, and then we can be done with the Coliseum issue as well?

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53 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Where did I say the North was perfect? How is Fizzdale browbeating you? I'm sure he doesn't know you and doesn't care to know you. he just expressed his opinion. He doesn't care (well, neither do I) if you agree with him or not.

Men and women see the world differently, just as people from different ethnicities see the world differently, just as people from different socioeconomic classes see the world differently. Most people's world views are ingrained in them from a young age from the way they were brought up to who brought them up to the school system they learned in, etc. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on a Grizz board and I sure as heck don't think Fizzdale stating his opinion is browbeating anyone. if that's the case, why are you browbeating, me Fizzdale and anyone else who disagrees with you? I don't need you to be my conscience.

I don't think you understand the term browbeating.

All I'm doing is pointing out the inconsistencies. Like, for example, mount Rushmore. I don't seem to recall fizz having a problem with it, even though there is very little difference between what he seems to be up in arms with and it.

History is messy. And whitewashing it is not the answer.

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28 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

My general feeling is that slaves were some amazing people who did extraordinary things for this country, but because their entire existence seems to be to be a device to shed light on what was done to them, they are always having to play one role in the story, the victim role.

If I could change one thing about the race conversation I would change this: rather than talking about the senseless acts done to them, I would talk about their accomplishments to America and society in general.

I also think that Henry Louis Gates Jr also believes this and with his pbs series he continues to shed light on the real stuff that they did, and it is amazing.

I agree that more positive things need to be promoted. That information is out there but rarely mentioned in school systems. That's what I mean about how people's world views are shaped by what they are taught. America's school systems don't teach stuff like that but in no way do I think we should ignore or excuse the abominable treatment of enslaved people. They were beaten, raped, killed and lawfully were 3/5 of a human being. There's no way to overlook that and as far as them being victims, if someone were to kidnap all of your family members tomorrow, hold them in bondage for multiple generations, rape them, murder them, sell them off, beat them, I don't think you would want to overlook how they were treated. 

4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

What if the Confederate War statues were replaced with NASCAR and pro wrestling statues?  Could that make everyone happy?

Is it too early to replace Forrest with Lawler and rename Confederate Park to Coliseum Park, and then we can be done with the Coliseum issue as well?

I'd chip in to have Lawler, Ric Flair (Memphis born) and a 10-foot tall statue of that wrestling trophy/bust/statue thing that you used to spin around before Channel 5 wrestling started. That would get my vote in Coliseum Park!

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11 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I don't think you understand the term browbeating.

All I'm doing is pointing out the inconsistencies. Like, for example, mount Rushmore. I don't seem to recall fizz having a problem with it, even though there us very little difference between what he seems to be up in arms with and it.

History is messy. And whitewashing it is not the answer.

2

Here's the definition of browbeat:

Quote

to intimidate or disconcert by a stern manner or arrogant speech 

You said Fizz was browbeating you. Those are your words. I understand the definition perfectly well. 

You're right, history is messy. I'm not saying whitewash it and I don't agree with those who do (although you yourself just tried to whitewash slavery by stating the the very real treatment of them was making them look like victims). I said put the statues in a museum somewhere. Just as history is messy and you seem to be fine with that, people are inconsistent. So if you view Fizz as being inconsistent oh well, that's natural human behavior. Why can't you accept it and move on? Someone asked him a specific question, he replied and gave his opinion. I have no idea how that is browbeating you or being inconsistent. Was he asked a specific question about Mt. Rushmore?

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