The Truth is OUT

Hello, Dillon Brooks!

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Surely this guy deserves his own thread by now.

I have been waiting a long time for us to get a budding star in the 2nd round.  That crazy pick that always seems to blow up for the Spurs or somebody.  

He's still a rookie and he's going to remind us all of that this year, but I'm going on record.  This is going to be the lowest draft pick we've ever had to take for himself - and I emphasize the word "take", as in, he will undoubtedly have earned, due to his level of play - a starting role with this team.  It may not even happen this season.  But certainly by next year.  The only thing that would keep him out is politics, if it's between him and Parsons and they do the easy move of playing the higher paid player first.

You can call this Summer League fever if you want, but everything about this guy made no sense why we were getting him at 45.  This was the Pac-12 Player of the Year.

I dare not dream he get to this level, but I remind you of the NFL draft that had what was considered 6 sure-fire pro-bowl QBs of the future in its draft.  But the last one to be picked was Dan Marino.  There were a lot of Pac-12 players picked ahead of Brooks, yet he was the player of the year in that league.  Maybe he has some non-prototypical things about his physique or game, but he is obviously a baller, in a league that had many of them this season.

And I'm glad we have him.

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Jetfixer    0

I'm glad too, my question is, is he a two or three? What about Seldon, same question, I'm calling these guys shooting guards, but I could be wrong. I just hope a few of these young guys rise to a starting level.

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costarica2    0

He has a chance but he will need 1 or 2 years to develop.

Defensively he is way to slow.

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Ndq0327    0
1 hour ago, The Truth is OUT said:

Surely this guy deserves his own thread by now.

I have been waiting a long time for us to get a budding star in the 2nd round.  That crazy pick that always seems to blow up for the Spurs or somebody.  

He's still a rookie and he's going to remind us all of that this year, but I'm going on record.  This is going to be the lowest draft pick we've ever had to take for himself - and I emphasize the word "take", as in, he will undoubtedly have earned, due to his level of play - a starting role with this team.  It may not even happen this season.  But certainly by next year.  The only thing that would keep him out is politics, if it's between him and Parsons and they do the easy move of playing the higher paid player first.

You can call this Summer League fever if you want, but everything about this guy made no sense why we were getting him at 45.  This was the Pac-12 Player of the Year.

I dare not dream he get to this level, but I remind you of the NFL draft that had what was considered 6 sure-fire pro-bowl QBs of the future in its draft.  But the last one to be picked was Dan Marino.  There were a lot of Pac-12 players picked ahead of Brooks, yet he was the player of the year in that league.  Maybe he has some non-prototypical things about his physique or game, but he is obviously a baller, in a league that had many of them this season.

And I'm glad we have him.

He may be the Brogdon of this Draft they have similar credentials. But I expect him to become a Fizz favorite and see minutes ahead of Ennis. I have him pegged for the reason Ennis gets traded. It's funny people were slotting him as a two way guy cause he was picked so low.

That just told me they didn't do their homework on him

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2 hours ago, The Truth is OUT said:

Surely this guy deserves his own thread by now.

I have been waiting a long time for us to get a budding star in the 2nd round.  That crazy pick that always seems to blow up for the Spurs or somebody.  

He's still a rookie and he's going to remind us all of that this year, but I'm going on record.  This is going to be the lowest draft pick we've ever had to take for himself - and I emphasize the word "take", as in, he will undoubtedly have earned, due to his level of play - a starting role with this team.  It may not even happen this season.  But certainly by next year.  The only thing that would keep him out is politics, if it's between him and Parsons and they do the easy move of playing the higher paid player first.

You can call this Summer League fever if you want, but everything about this guy made no sense why we were getting him at 45.  This was the Pac-12 Player of the Year.

I dare not dream he get to this level, but I remind you of the NFL draft that had what was considered 6 sure-fire pro-bowl QBs of the future in its draft.  But the last one to be picked was Dan Marino.  There were a lot of Pac-12 players picked ahead of Brooks, yet he was the player of the year in that league.  Maybe he has some non-prototypical things about his physique or game, but he is obviously a baller, in a league that had many of them this season.

And I'm glad we have him.

Wallace. Nuff said.

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I'm not in the Brooks fanclub. He is slow on both ends. What is he good at in the NBA? He can't defend. Okay, so he's a scorer, but is our real team really going to be looking for Dillon Brooks as a go to guy in a real game? I hope not! I think he can score against college 4s and SL backups, but not against real NBAers. I don't see him beating his man in isos in SL - not enough quickness. I don't see him finishing vs length very well either. What is he good at again, I forget?

I'll give him some credit for BBIQ. He makes some smart plays out there. He'll need to make a lot of them if he wants to be an anyone's rotation.

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3 hours ago, tennesseessio said:

I'm not in the Brooks fanclub. He is slow on both ends. What is he good at in the NBA? He can't defend. Okay, so he's a scorer, but is our real team really going to be looking for Dillon Brooks as a go to guy in a real game? I hope not! I think he can score against college 4s and SL backups, but not against real NBAers. I don't see him beating his man in isos in SL - not enough quickness. I don't see him finishing vs length very well either. What is he good at again, I forget?

I'll give him some credit for BBIQ. He makes some smart plays out there. He'll need to make a lot of them if he wants to be an anyone's rotation.

He's a scorer. You said it yourself. We haven't had a rookie period even get mentioned with that word lol. 

Hes honestly not that slow. I don't see him starting anytime soon.

Seldon on he other hand...

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Ndq0327    0
5 hours ago, tennesseessio said:

I'm not in the Brooks fanclub. He is slow on both ends. What is he good at in the NBA? He can't defend. Okay, so he's a scorer, but is our real team really going to be looking for Dillon Brooks as a go to guy in a real game? I hope not! I think he can score against college 4s and SL backups, but not against real NBAers. I don't see him beating his man in isos in SL - not enough quickness. I don't see him finishing vs length very well either. What is he good at again, I forget?

I'll give him some credit for BBIQ. He makes some smart plays out there. He'll need to make a lot of them if he wants to be an anyone's rotation.

So easy to discredit the positives in someone's game but will argue the hell out of the obvious negative aspects I'm sure Brooks will be fine against the vets just like he was fine picking his spots in SL a scorer finds away to score

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grizzgolf    0

He showed a ton of flashes. Needs a year or two to get some stuff worked out. But I'm glad we got him. 

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chipc3    0
47 minutes ago, Dark-Child said:

He is easily, right now the best pick in the last three years. 

Possibly you are getting overly excited about Brooks' play in summer league. 

Or you are not so subtly insulting the Grizzlies recent drafts... 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Possibly you are getting overly excited about Brooks' play in summer league. 

Or you are not so subtly insulting the Grizzlies recent drafts... 

1) It can be 2 things

2) Brooks is going to have a better NBA career than anybody we've drafted the past 4 years with the possible exception of deyonta davis.

High bball IQ, scoring, and competitiveness are skills that translate well to the NBA

 

Low bball IQ, low motor, poor shooting etc are skills that do not, which you can apply to basically all our other draft picks in varying combinations

 

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TimBC    0
23 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

 a scorer finds away to score

I've only seen Brooks play a couple of times, but he looked like that guy we've hardly ever had: "You need a bucket? I'll find a way to get you one."  

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Dark-Child    0
21 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Possibly you are getting overly excited about Brooks' play in summer league. 

Or you are not so subtly insulting the Grizzlies recent drafts... 

I wouldn't say insulting but it is indictment on the lack of success when it comes to drafting done by this front office, which also makes me very cynical when rebuilding is mentioned because the F.O. can not build thru the draft.  Our hands are tied to the current course of action.  Having said all that I do believe that Brooks is a player and the only critique in his game is the same one leveled at Steph Curry and James Harden when they were coming out which is a lack of athleticism, two players the Grizzlies passed on during the draft, so hopefully they have learned their lesson. 

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chipc3    0
Just now, Dark-Child said:

I wouldn't say insulting but it is indictment on the lack of success when it comes to drafting done by this front office, which also makes me very cynical when rebuilding is mentioned because the F.O. can not build thru the draft.  Our hands are tied to the current course of action.  Having said all that I do believe that Brooks is a player and the only critique in his game is the same one leveled at Steph Curry and James Harden when they were coming out which is a lack of athleticism, two players the Grizzlies passed on during the draft, so hopefully they have learned their lesson. 

Wow. I hope you are right. Comparing Brooks to Harden and Curry is a huge step for me. 

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39 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Wow. I hope you are right. Comparing Brooks to Harden and Curry is a huge step for me. 

It's not a comparison to Harden and Curry he's making directly, it's the fact that athleticism is way overrated, still. Not every player has to break people down 1 on 1 or win the dunk contest. A player who understands defense and rotations and how to use his body to create space is usually more successful than somebody with explosive athleticism that doesn't try or doesn't care.

 

If Brooks can hit open corner 3s, take advantage of space created by the offense (not necessarily him going 1-on-1) and make the correct defensive rotations and be an 8th or 9th man, that in and of itself is amazing for a 2nd rounder.

 

 

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chipc3    0
7 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

It's not a comparison to Harden and Curry he's making directly, it's the fact that athleticism is way overrated, still. Not every player has to break people down 1 on 1 or win the dunk contest. A player who understands defense and rotations and how to use his body to create space is usually more successful than somebody with explosive athleticism that doesn't try or doesn't care.

If Brooks can hit open corner 3s, take advantage of space created by the offense (not necessarily him going 1-on-1) and make the correct defensive rotations and be an 8th or 9th man, that in and of itself is amazing for a 2nd rounder.

I agree that if Brooks can make threes and play defense he will be a great find in the 2nd round.

However, suggesting that he is in any way being evaluated the same as Harden (the 3rd played taken in the draft) and Curry (picked 7th) were overlooked the same way that Brooks was (strictly athleticism) is an overstatement in my eyes. Brooks played the 4 in college, struggles with ball-handling skills and foot speed on defense and has a short arm span compared to most successful 3 and D guys in the NBA. Brooks is promising and I hope he will become a solid NBA player but there is more than just athleticism at play here.  

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16 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I agree that if Brooks can make threes and play defense he will be a great find in the 2nd round.

However, suggesting that he is in any way being evaluated the same as Harden (the 3rd played taken in the draft) and Curry (picked 7th) were overlooked the same way that Brooks was (strictly athleticism) is an overstatement in my eyes. Brooks played the 4 in college, struggles with ball-handling skills and foot speed on defense and has a short arm span compared to most successful 3 and D guys in the NBA. Brooks is promising and I hope he will become a solid NBA player but there is more than just athleticism at play here.  

James's Harden and Dillon brooks both have the same wingspan. Listed at 7"0.

Also, I believe they were very close at the combine in respective stats. 

 

Im on my phone and I can't post the pages.

 

this does not mean that he is the next James Harden. 

 

Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

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chipc3    0
11 minutes ago, Memphis Maverick said:

James's Harden and Dillon brooks both have the same wingspan. Listed at 7"0.

Also, I believe they were very close at the combine in respective stats. 

 

Im on my phone and I can't post the pages.

 

this does not mean that he is the next James Harden. 

 

Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

Actually Dillon Brooks was given a 6' 6" wingspan at the NBA pre-draft workouts. Harden had a 6'10 3/4" wingspan. Brooks had a 8' 4" standing reach while Harden had a 8' 7 1/2" standing reach.  

I don't know if that is a flaw in your argument or just a mistake on your phone. Often times numbers are hard to read on a phone. 

Their stats are listed here so everyone can make up their own minds on how similar the two players are statistically. 

 

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9 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Actually Dillon Brooks was given a 6' 6" wingspan at the NBA pre-draft workouts. Harden had a 6'10 3/4" wingspan. Brooks had a 8' 4" standing reach while Harden had a 8' 7 1/2" standing reach.  

I don't know if that is a flaw in your argument or just a mistake on your phone. Often times numbers are hard to read on a phone. 

Their stats are listed here so everyone can make up their own minds on how similar the two players are statistically. 

 

The flaw in your argument is that you leapt to the conclusion that Dark-child was comparing Brooks directly to Harden and Curry.   Pretty easy to see he was just comparing situations as an example.  

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chipc3    0
12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

The flaw in your argument is that you leapt to the conclusion that Dark-child was comparing Brooks directly to Harden and Curry.   Pretty easy to see he was just comparing situations as an example.  

Compare situations but not comparing players is fine. He used those names saying they were overlooked in the draft and not athletic. I simply said comparing Harden and Curry to Brooks is a large step. You assumed I meant that to mean as players. I didn't. 

First, Harden was the 3rd pick in the draft. Curry was 7th. Neither players was overlooked. teams made poor selections but they were considered higher in the draft. No one overlooked them. Brooks was passed on by everyone in the draft at least once. Many teams never seriously considered him at all. 

Second, Curry and Harden were not considered to lack athleticism. Harden came out of college as the #1 scorer at the rim his final season and the best at getting to the rim. If there was a weakness in Harden's game it was perceived his skill set didn't translate well to the NBA. Curry was the #1 scorer coming out of college despite being the only player on his team defenses worried about. Brooks took advantage of a fast paced offense and being undersized relative to his defenders to rack up points last season but his defensive weaknesses were hidden somewhat by the Oregon zone defense. Brooks' foot speed has been called into question by many people. 

This is what I meant by comparing the two but as I said originally I hope he is right. I'd love for Brooks perceived deficiencies to be wrong.  

That doesn't change the second person being off on Harden and Brooks' wingspan. Sometimes it is best to stick to what was written and not assume too much more than that. Or you could ask for someone to clarify what they meant instead of assuming the worst. 

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http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/05/13/stephen-curry-not-athletic-how-warriors-star-squashed-that-scouting-report/

For all of his basketball life, Stephen Curry has worn a Post-it on his back: Not Athletic Enough.

That notion played a big role in Curry not getting a major Division I scholarship out of high school. It hurt his stock in the NBA draft and fueled doubts about his potential early in his career.

Even now, though he’s perched atop the NBA landscape as the back-to-back MVP, it’s the unspoken reason behind critics downplaying his heroics. He doesn’t have the physical traits that would explain his dominance. It makes sense that Shaquille O’Neal was an unstoppable force. LeBron James and Michael Jordan were clearly infused with radioactive powers perfect for basketball.

Curry’s surface-level qualities have never measured up.

Far below NBA standard in regard to explosiveness and athleticism,” reads the weaknesses portion of Curry’s scouting report on NBADraft.net. “At 6-2, he’s extremely small for the NBA shooting guard position, and it will likely keep him from being much of a defender at the next level … Doesn’t like when defenses are too physical with him … Not a great finisher around the basket due to his size and physical attributes … Makes some silly mistakes at the PG position. Needs to add some muscles to his upper body, but appears as though he’ll always be skinny.”

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chipc3    0

From that aritcle:
 

Quote

“He’s a phenomenal athlete,” Hall of Fame-bound point guard Steve Nash said. “He’s off the charts in so many ways as an athlete. We sometimes get so enamored by explosion. Athleticism is what you can do within the parameters of the game: the ball, opponent, space, time, execution. There are so many things. We lose track of what a phenomenal athlete he is.”

I don't quote NBADraft.net commentary for many reasons and you did just add another to the list however. 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

From that aritcle:
 

I don't quote NBADraft.net commentary for many reasons and you did just add another to the list however. 

I agree with Nash that we are overly enamored by explosion.  Too many are way too critical when it comes to predicting guys futures based on athleticism.    If a guy is dumb as a box of rocks and can't shoot then yes not being athletic can be a problem.  

What i don't get is why is it that Brooks is getting killed for his lack of athleticism but Rade is getting a huge pass?   It isn't like Rade is a lottery pick or was a standout in the most competitive international league.  

They have similar skillsets(shooting, ball-handling, passing) and BBIQ.   Difference is really just their size.   Rade is 6''9 thin and Brooks is 6'6' and strong.  

Measured at 6'6 in shoes and 220 pounds, Brooks has a very strong and physically mature frame that predicates a lot of what he does on the offensive end of the floor. While he has the strength to play both forward spots, he has just an average wingspan (6'6) which effects the impact he can have as a defender and finisher at the rim. He is a good, but not great athlete, generally relying on physical straight line drives getting downhill. He can be a powerful above the rim finisher with momentum going to his right, but for the most part lacks elite finishing ability in a crowd, partially due to his lack of length. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dillion-Brooks-72497/©DraftExpress

His lack of athleticism is overstated too.  Getting him into a good training regiment would improve that tremendously.  Personally i think if they both are willing to work then they can be good players for us in the very near future.

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chipc3    0
4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I agree with Nash that we are overly enamored by explosion.  Too many are way too critical when it comes to predicting guys futures based on athleticism.    If a guy is dumb as a box of rocks and can't shoot then yes not being athletic can be a problem.  

What i don't get is why is it that Brooks is getting killed for his lack of athleticism but Rade is getting a huge pass?   It isn't like Rade is a lottery pick or was a standout in the most competitive international league.  

They have similar skillsets(shooting, ball-handling, passing) and BBIQ.   Difference is really just their size.   Rade is 6''9 thin and Brooks is 6'6' and strong.  

Measured at 6'6 in shoes and 220 pounds, Brooks has a very strong and physically mature frame that predicates a lot of what he does on the offensive end of the floor. While he has the strength to play both forward spots, he has just an average wingspan (6'6) which effects the impact he can have as a defender and finisher at the rim. He is a good, but not great athlete, generally relying on physical straight line drives getting downhill. He can be a powerful above the rim finisher with momentum going to his right, but for the most part lacks elite finishing ability in a crowd, partially due to his lack of length. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dillion-Brooks-72497/©DraftExpress

His lack of athleticism is overstated too.  Getting him into a good training regiment would improve that tremendously.  Personally i think if they both are willing to work then they can be good players for us in the very near future.

Who's giving Rade a huge pass? Don't you believe people are factoring that as a reason he dropped in the draft? Rade is taller which can help offset the lack of foot speed. 

I believe everyone is hoping Brooks, Rade and Rabb develop into an excellent players and can contribute to the continuing success of the franchise. Everyone wants both players to succeed. Why does anyone have to look for reasons to degrade our players? 

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