GrizzTigerFan

Which Guys should be Prioritized to Develop?

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chipc3    0
3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

No i know what i entitled the thread but once again that was based off of Fiz statement.  He is looking to only develop 3-5 guys to develop in season (his statement not mine).  We have 9 young guys on roster so logically that means he narrowed it done to only 3-5 that he will invest in.  In other words he will prioritize them over the others.    Hence the title of this thread. 

Who he will send to the D-league and who he will keep on the roster is yet to be determined. There isn't any youngster on the roster who has earned this right yet. No lottery picks. No standouts from last season. No one. It's quite possible Fizdale was saying this as a motivational tool for players who think they already have it made or those who are concerned they aren't in the top 3-5. I wouldn't hold his feet to the flame on not developing more than 3-5 players. 

You again assumed you knew what Fizdale meant. I am again leaving room for alternative interpretations. It's is possible you are correct but I hope that Fizdale is keeping his mind open and that the competition is wide open. Everyone should be competing for roster spots and roles in the rotation. That is all I am saying. No one should be given anything.   

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Who he will send to the D-league and who he will keep on the roster is yet to be determined. There isn't any youngster on the roster who has earned this right yet. No lottery picks. No standouts from last season. No one. It's quite possible Fizdale was saying this as a motivational tool for players who think they already have it made or those who are concerned they aren't in the top 3-5. I wouldn't hold his feet to the flame on not developing more than 3-5 players. 

Yes it would be shortsighted to assume he can really develop as many as 5 players and still remain competitive.  So that is a possibility. 
However, i do think that Selden and Harrison have earned spots in rotation.   Selden's playoff and SL performances cemented that.  As well as Drew's improved play down the stretch.   I see Rabb, Wade, and Brooks spending a lot of time in the GLeague.    It's a waste of time sending Martin down there.  I think they want to see what Rade looks like with actual NBA players before they ship him down. 

This question is for anyone not directed towards you specifically but why is it that most of GrizzNation doesn't consider Andrew Harrison as proof of Fiz willingness to develop young players?   

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chipc3    0
1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes it would be shortsighted to assume he can really develop as many as 5 players and still remain competitive.  So that is a possibility. 
However, i do think that Selden and Harrison have earned spots in rotation.   Selden's playoff and SL performances cemented that.  As well as Drew's improved play down the stretch.   I see Rabb, Wade, and Brooks spending a lot of time in the GLeague.    It's a waste of time sending Martin down there.  I think they want to see what Rade looks like with actual NBA players before they ship him down. 

This question is for anyone not directed towards you specifically but why is it that most of GrizzNation doesn't consider Andrew Harrison as proof of Fiz willingness to develop young players?   

I haven't seen Rabb play yet honestly so I don't have a clue about him. Wade will likely bounce back and forth since he seemed to be making strides as summer league went on. He started off looking like he was playing in the Bluff City Classic but he gained control as the tournament went on. Brooks looks like he has skills but he has to learn a new position (or two) and I expect him to spend the year in Southaven, barring injury, since the wing is our deepest position right now. This is all just my opinion however and not a prediction in any sense. For all I know JaMychal may not be coming back and Martin or Rabb could end up starting! 

I think most people question Harrison as a long-term answer at PG. Fizdale was in favor of bringing a veteran in last season after all so using him as an example of Fizdale's development skill seems to be weak at this point. Hopefully we will be able to point to him in that regard this season. 

Hopefully 

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Brooks looks like he has skills but he has to learn a new position (or two) and I expect him to spend the year in Southaven, barring injury, since the wing is our deepest position right now.

That was my logic in sending him down too.  Unless we ship out a bunch of guys i don't see how he gets minutes. 

8 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I think most people question Harrison as a long-term answer at PG. Fizdale was in favor of bringing a veteran in last season after all so using him as an example of Fizdale's development skill seems to be weak at this point. Hopefully we will be able to point to him in that regard this season. 

I think the Parson's thing had more to do with Fizdale wanting a vet PG then just Harrison.  I heard the original idea was to run with either Harrison or Baldwin at backup PG because Chandler would be there as a safety net.    But when CP wasn't able to play it put too much pressure on an unproven young PG to be able to give Mike rest.   So the Douglass thing was as much about Parsons as it was Harrison.    Harrison also isn't being developed as just a backupPG either.  He is being groomed to be a combo.   Everyone falsely judges him solely on his PG growth.  

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chipc3    0
21 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think the Parson's thing had more to do with Fizdale wanting a vet PG then just Harrison.  I heard the original idea was to run with either Harrison or Baldwin at backup PG because Chandler would be there as a safety net.    But when CP wasn't able to play it put too much pressure on an unproven young PG to be able to give Mike rest.   So the Douglass thing was as much about Parsons as it was Harrison.    Harrison also isn't being developed as just a backupPG either.  He is being groomed to be a combo.   Everyone falsely judges him solely on his PG growth.  

Be careful with the absolutes. I don't believe everyone is falsely judging Harrison solely on his PG growth. 

That is an interesting theory you've come up with to justify Fizdale deciding on going with a veteran PG instead of Harrison in the midst of the season. If true isn't it curious that he didn't feel that way at the start of the season when Parsons was injured and no one knew when he'd return? 

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6 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Be careful with the absolutes. I don't believe everyone is falsely judging Harrison solely on his PG growth. 

That is an interesting theory you've come up with to justify Fizdale deciding on going with a veteran PG instead of Harrison in the midst of the season. If true isn't it curious that he didn't feel that way at the start of the season when Parsons was injured and no one knew when he'd return? 

Well at beginning of the season Fiz stated he would let Wade and Baldwin compete for the spot.   Signing a vet PG at that time would've hindered that.  Plus Parsons was supposedly only a few weeks away from returning from injury.  

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chipc3    0
6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Well at beginning of the season Fiz stated he would let Wade and Baldwin compete for the spot.   Signing a vet PG at that time would've hindered that.  Plus Parsons was supposedly only a few weeks away from returning from injury.  

So Fizdale was supposedly willing to let the team flounder while two players competed for rotation jobs but not once he settled on a winner because Parsons was going to be the de facto PG in Fizdale's lineup? That's quite a theory.

I mean it's not like Conley's minutes were reduced while the rookies fought it out. Conley was playing major minutes while the rookies battled for the back up job. Perhaps you could amend this to be that Fizdale was counting on Parsons and Conley but got worried both would falter after Parsons looked bad and Conley's back was acting up.  

Or perhaps we could suggest that Fizdale wanted Harrison to work on some weaknesses and not hurt the team while he worked on them so he brought in a vet hoping he could handle the role while Harrison worked behind the scenes to improve those areas of his game that weren't up to par but he realized soon afterwards that the cure was worse than the disease. 

I don't know either way but sometimes the simplest answers are correct.  

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

So Fizdale was supposedly willing to let the team flounder while two players competed for starting jobs but not once he settled on a winner because Parsons was going to be the de facto PG in Fizdale's lineup? That's quite a theory. 

Yep theory shared by Edmiston, Calkins, and Herrington because that's where i first heard/read it.    Also Fiz said that he would be using Parsons like Lebron in his offense.  Parsons was supposed to be playing a lot of Point-forward.   Wade and Harrison ideally would've mostly been used as secondary ball-handlers.  It was a good strategy that would've allowed them to be brought along slowly. 

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chipc3    0
3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yep theory shared by Edmiston, Calkins, and Herrington because that's where i first heard/read it.    Also Fiz said that he would be using Parsons like Lebron in his offense.  Parsons was supposed to be playing a lot of Point-forward.   Wade and Harrison ideally would've mostly been used as secondary ball-handlers.  It was a good strategy that would've allowed them to be brought along slowly. 

Edmiston, Calkins and Herrington all said this? Send me the link! I'd love to read those three's theory about this. What was Tillery's take. He is the beat writer for the CA after all. 

If Fizdale believed Parsons could be his primary ball handler when Conley was out, then my impression of him as a coach has dropped considerably too. 

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15 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Edmiston, Calkins and Herrington all said this? Send me the link! I'd love to read those three's theory about this. What was Tillery's take. He is the beat writer for the CA after all. 

If Fizdale believed Parsons could be his primary ball handler when Conley was out, then my impression of him as a coach has dropped considerably too. 

http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/david-fizdale-want-chandler-parsons-play-like-lebron/#2ghoCqfx4hqEAr83.97

Fizdale, who was an assistant in Miami during the Big 3 era, told ESPN that Parsons and LeBron have “the same skill set:”

“When I said I want to play him like LeBron, I do,” Fizdale said. “I really do want to use him, because there’s not many guys in the League at that size that have that skill set, and there’s no reason why I should put a cap on his abilities because his name isn’t LeBron James. I just see the same skill set.

 

“He’s not a high flyer like LeBron obviously, but he can pass it, he can shoot the 3, he’s huge, he can post guys and he moves great without the basketball, so I can move him around in a lot of different spots. I do not want to put a ceiling on him. I want to see how far we can go with him and put him in a role that is positionless. … I think all it takes is a coach showing that he has the confidence in a guy to do it and develop him according to the system and then it can take place.”


Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/david-fizdale-want-chandler-parsons-play-like-lebron/#SPjOiTsT3Pbcxhg0.99

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http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/david-fizdale-use-chandler-parsons-way-heat-lebron-james/326808

Note that Fizdale isn’t quite comparing Parsons to James, a once-in-an-eternity talent whose combination of elite physical tools and unparalleled skill/basketball IQ may never be seen again. Rather, Fizdale is drawing attention to their similarities in play style as well as how to most effectively utilize said play style.

During his time in Miami, James was deployed as the primary initiator of halfcourt offense (namely, pick-and-roll/slash-and-kick sets) and used his driving ability and playmaking prowess to engineer an unyielding pace-and-space offensive machine. On defense, James was free to prowl on the perimeter rather than having to bang with opposing power forwards down low (a task that usually went to Shane Battier instead).

Something similar could be in store in Memphis this season for Parsons, a lanky 6-foot-10 combo forward who is comfortable both handling the basketball for significant periods and stroking it from deep (a 38.0 percent career three-point shooter) when needed. The Grizzlies also have enough rugged athletes on their roster to prevent Parsons’ balky knees from taking any unnecessary punishment on the defensive end.

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chipc3    0

That's a big stretch to say Parsons and LeBron have similar skill set to Fizdale altered the lineup and how he developed his back up PG because Parsons wasn't able to play. 

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Michael D    0

Unless I have the timeline off for last year, Mike Conley went down with the back injury and then veteran Toney Douglas was brought in.  Seems like the crap hit the fan which led to the forced removal of Harrison and Baldwin as the main backups.  Harrison still got time as the backup to Douglas but then Parsons never really returned after Conley came back, so there was never an opportunity to implement Parsons as the Lebron James-like ballhandler.

I think Fizdale was going to roll with the rookies and try to develop them.

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28 minutes ago, Michael D said:

Unless I have the timeline off for last year, Mike Conley went down with the back injury and then veteran Toney Douglas was brought in.  Seems like the crap hit the fan which led to the forced removal of Harrison and Baldwin as the main backups.  Harrison still got time as the backup to Douglas but then Parsons never really returned after Conley came back, so there was never an opportunity to implement Parsons as the Lebron James-like ballhandler.

I think Fizdale was going to roll with the rookies and try to develop them.

You are very correct.

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GTF, I may be wrong about how you're understanding Fizz' development plan, but it seems to me that the flaw is in thinking that there is some conscious selection of certain players beforehand, and then developing them.  I don't think so.  I would think that coach DF would work at developing ALL the young guys without favoring any by giving them areas to work on, be it in the G-League, team practices, extra drills in the gym, etc.  Those who showed improvement would then get game time commensurate with their effort and improvement.  Then, at the end of the season you look at what you have and see that 3 to 5 guys made some serious positive strides toward becoming a quality NBA player.

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46 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

GTF, I may be wrong about how you're understanding Fizz' development plan, but it seems to me that the flaw is in thinking that there is some conscious selection of certain players beforehand, and then developing them.  I don't think so.  I would think that coach DF would work at developing ALL the young guys without favoring any by giving them areas to work on, be it in the G-League, team practices, extra drills in the gym, etc.  Those who showed improvement would then get game time commensurate with their effort and improvement.  Then, at the end of the season you look at what you have and see that 3 to 5 guys made some serious positive strides toward becoming a quality NBA player.

I Agree with most of what you are saying.  It's just for the sake of discussion I posed the question that way. 

I'm pretty sure that ultimately progress + necessity will determine who gets the development (in game) time.    But becaus we don't see the practices and workouts it's easier to post a question to see what Grizzfans would do.  

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Subliminal    0
1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I Agree with most of what you are saying.  It's just for the sake of discussion I posed the question that way. 

I'm pretty sure that ultimately progress + necessity will determine who gets the development (in game) time.    But becaus we don't see the practices and workouts it's easier to post a question to see what Grizzfans would do.  

Nah let's just argue about the premise of the thread for a few more pages 😌

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chipc3    0

Just heard a rumor that Ivan Rabb is not being offered a contract and is moving out of the place he was staying at. Agent wouldn't agree to a 2 way contract and the injury is worse than originally anticipated. 

Again it is is just a rumor.

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19 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Just heard a rumor that Ivan Rabb is not being offered a contract and is moving out of the place he was staying at. Agent wouldn't agree to a 2 way contract and the injury is worse than originally anticipated. 

Again it is is just a rumor.

Well that sucks. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Just heard a rumor that Ivan Rabb is not being offered a contract and is moving out of the place he was staying at. Agent wouldn't agree to a 2 way contract and the injury is worse than originally anticipated. 

Again it is is just a rumor.

Hmm, do we still hold his rights? I'm assuming we could trade him but nobody wants a thin banged up C with a thin PF body, oh well, except us. 

I anticipate a couple guys will be moved or let go in the next couple of weeks. I figured moves would happen after SL was over. 

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Ndq0327    0
42 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Hmm, do we still hold his rights? I'm assuming we could trade him but nobody wants a thin banged up C with a thin PF body, oh well, except us. 

I anticipate a couple guys will be moved or let go in the next couple of weeks. I figured moves would happen after SL was over. 

Somebody wanted him on draft night I really wish we could get Jonah Bolden but I doubt Philly would wanna swap

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Thomas    0
2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Just heard a rumor that Ivan Rabb is not being offered a contract and is moving out of the place he was staying at. Agent wouldn't agree to a 2 way contract and the injury is worse than originally anticipated. 

Again it is is just a rumor.

I think Wallace must get some sort of sexual gratification when he drafts/signs and ridiculously tries to hide debilitatingly injured players. Seriously I can think of no other explanation as to why he insanely keeps doing this ****.

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srmjr23    0
3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Just heard a rumor that Ivan Rabb is not being offered a contract and is moving out of the place he was staying at. Agent wouldn't agree to a 2 way contract and the injury is worse than originally anticipated. 

Again it is is just a rumor.

Source. Because I'm sure we don't give a **** about your buddy who lives next door to him.

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fanboyslim    0

I don't believe it. If he truly had a serious injury he'd have a guaranteed contract by now. No way CW misses that opportunity.

Jokes aside, if true, this would validate my opinion that two-way contracts are not going to do anything to retain players like Rabb who can easily make much more money overseas.

In any event we have his NBA rights and he doesn't create a cap hold (only unsigned 1st rounders do), so we can keep them indefinitely.

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chipc3    0
5 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I don't believe it. If he truly had a serious injury he'd have a guaranteed contract by now. No way CW misses that opportunity.

Jokes aside, if true, this would validate my opinion that two-way contracts are not going to do anything to retain players like Rabb who can easily make much more money overseas.

In any event we have his NBA rights and he doesn't create a cap hold (only unsigned 1st rounders do), so we can keep them indefinitely.

Wallace has a history of late for doing this very thing too. Two years ago he traded for Andrew Harrison but never signed him to a contract only to ink him to a deal after a year in the D-League. Last year he traded into the draft to get Rade and Davis but never signed Rade and let him mature another year in Europe before signing him this summer. Now it is Rabb who looks like he won't be offered a deal but we hold onto his rights. 

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