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Every Team's Projected 2017-18 Record

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19 hours ago, Memphis Maverick said:

I don't. Majority of Leonard's misses came from Ennis and Seldon. And as far as productivity goes on offense, gave more than Tony could. 

 

I:e, spreading the floor. 

Offensively, these statements are not supported by fact.  In the playoffs TA and Ennis score at nearly the exact same rate.  Wayne Selden is much lower.  Selden shot 18% from three in the playoffs, less than 14% in the regular season.  The Spurs probably had extra meetings game-planning against that kind of floor-spreading shooting.

I do not think that either Ennis or Selden could be as effective as a healthy Tony could defensively against anyone.  Selden had a game against Kahwi at the end of the regular season that he looked decent defensively against him, but I don't think that he replicated that in the playoffs.

Selden was just a rookie and I don't expect him to be able to play like a multiple time NBA All Defensive Team member.  I do hope to see him get better defensively as  he develops.  The upcoming season will give us a better idea of what he can do, after all, he only played 17 total games for us.  Those posters who think he is already better than TA are just letting the emotions stemming from some of TA's more frustrating moments cloud their thinking.

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grizz1016    0
On 8/4/2017 at 1:57 PM, Memphis Maverick said:

I don't. Majority of Leonard's misses came from Ennis and Seldon. And as far as productivity goes on offense, gave more than Tony could. 

 

I:e, spreading the floor. 

During the regular season, Kawhi shot below 40% whenever TA guarded him. In fact when TA went to the bench, Kawhi always went off. TA still shows up against big-name players. He's no longer consistent enough to put forth the same effort every game unless the opposing player is Kawhi, Klay, etc

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3 hours ago, grizz1016 said:

During the regular season, Kawhi shot below 40% whenever TA guarded him. In fact when TA went to the bench, Kawhi always went off. TA still shows up against big-name players. He's no longer consistent enough to put forth the same effort every game unless the opposing player is Kawhi, Klay, etc

I agree...bt ta would have never been happy with that role...imo him and zb0 had to much emotionally invested in this team to take lesser though more effective roles...one of the reason why I think the FO decided to move on...being for real that was the only way this team would ever change....with that being said I'm excited to see what our core 5 (conley,evans,parsons,jam,gasol) can pull off this season

 

 

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Father Pat    0
3 hours ago, grizz1016 said:

During the regular season, Kawhi shot below 40% whenever TA guarded him. In fact when TA went to the bench, Kawhi always went off. TA still shows up against big-name players. He's no longer consistent enough to put forth the same effort every game unless the opposing player is Kawhi, Klay, etc

Tony only played in 2 games against Leonard during the regular season. In those games, Tony shot .368 % from the field (7-19). The results in victories were split, and in the game the Spurs lost, Parker and Mills shot a combined 4-16, compared to them hitting 10 of 20 in their win. Leonard was 6-15 in their loss and 7-15 in their win, not a huge difference. 

Tony guarding Leonard had less of an impact than you would like to think.

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chipc3    0

TA not playing Kawhi was a huge impact. 

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Father Pat    0
5 hours ago, chipc3 said:

TA not playing Kawhi was a huge impact. 

6 playoff games vs Spurs without T.A. : 2-4

Last 6 reg. season games against the Spurs that T.A. played :  2-4

Last 6 reg. season games in which both T.A. and Leonard played : 1-5

Last 2 playoff series against the Spurs with T.A. playing :  0-8

I wouldn't call having Tony playing against the Spurs a huge impact.

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Dwash    0
8 hours ago, chipc3 said:

TA not playing Kawhi was a huge impact. 

I respect TA but he isnt giving the athletes the same problems he used to. He still gives problems to slower less physically imposing guys like Klay, Crawford, Harden or smaller point guards.

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cdp    0

Huge impact like we would've won the series had TA played or somethin? Cuz we wouldn't have. We beat them one stinkin game handily while it took Conley givin his best performance n Gasol hittin a game winner to barely eek out another in overtime. The Spurs crushed us in 4 other games. Tony may have been the difference in winnin 1 of those games, maybe.

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On 8/5/2017 at 9:44 AM, smit-tay griz said:

Offensively, these statements are not supported by fact.  In the playoffs TA and Ennis score at nearly the exact same rate.  Wayne Selden is much lower.  Selden shot 18% from three in the playoffs, less than 14% in the regular season.  The Spurs probably had extra meetings game-planning against that kind of floor-spreading shooting.

I do not think that either Ennis or Selden could be as effective as a healthy Tony could defensively against anyone.  Selden had a game against Kahwi at the end of the regular season that he looked decent defensively against him, but I don't think that he replicated that in the playoffs.

Selden was just a rookie and I don't expect him to be able to play like a multiple time NBA All Defensive Team member.  I do hope to see him get better defensively as  he develops.  The upcoming season will give us a better idea of what he can do, after all, he only played 17 total games for us.  Those posters who think he is already better than TA are just letting the emotions stemming from some of TA's more frustrating moments cloud their thinking.

Seldon only played a couple of games. When he did play he was very effective. Also, the point is that Ennis and Seldon more than made up for Tony in the playoffs.

 

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chipc3    0
15 hours ago, Father Pat said:

6 playoff games vs Spurs without T.A. : 2-4

Last 6 reg. season games against the Spurs that T.A. played :  2-4

Last 6 reg. season games in which both T.A. and Leonard played : 1-5

Last 2 playoff series against the Spurs with T.A. playing :  0-8

I wouldn't call having Tony playing against the Spurs a huge impact.

TA isn't the team. Quoting team records and making the assumption that how TA performed had no impact is ridiculous. Did you mention that one of the 4-0 sweeps occurred when the team was playing a bunch of D-Leaguers? Did you mention the other sweep when the Spurs was in the conference finals? Did you mention that two of the last 6 regular season game losses occured in late March of 2016 when the team was starting Chris Andersen, JaMychal Green, Jordan Farmar, Matt Barnes and TA? Do you believe any of the references you brought up are relevant to the past playoff series? 

Perhaps you were confused by my reference. I was referring specifically to the idea that having TA playing Kawhi would have made a BIG difference compared to the others who covered him. Leonard shot over 52% in the series, made over 48% of his 3 point attempts and he averaged over 30 PPG in the series this past year. During the regular season Kawhi shot 42% against the Grizzlies, hit 42% of his 3 point attempts and averaged 24.3 PPG. 

I don't know if having TA would have made a tremendous difference in the series going 7 games or even if the Grizzlies could have pulled an upset. Clearly the Grizzlies needed Marc Gasol to play like he did in game 1 the entire series. The Grizzlies needed someone to step up as a go to scorer in Game 6 when Marc was scared to touch the ball. The team needed more reliable big men outside of Gasol and Randolph. Gregg Popovich is a superior coach at this time to David Fizdale. 

I believe the relevant regular seasons stats from this past year suggest Kawhi Leonard would not have had the success he had against Memphis in the playoffs if Tony Allen, a 2nd team all NBA defensive selection, was able to play. At least that's a far more accurate a reference point than the 2012-13 playoffs series against San Antonio. 

I don't criticize but I also don't glorify certain players for their success guarding Kawhi when he averaged 30 PPG, shot 52% from the floor and 48% from the arc in the series. 

 

 

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Father Pat    0
1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

TA isn't the team. Quoting team records and making the assumption that how TA performed had no impact is ridiculous. Did you mention that one of the 4-0 sweeps occurred when the team was playing a bunch of D-Leaguers? Did you mention the other sweep when the Spurs was in the conference finals? Did you mention that two of the last 6 regular season game losses occured in late March of 2016 when the team was starting Chris Andersen, JaMychal Green, Jordan Farmar, Matt Barnes and TA? Do you believe any of the references you brought up are relevant to the past playoff series? 

Perhaps you were confused by my reference. I was referring specifically to the idea that having TA playing Kawhi would have made a BIG difference compared to the others who covered him. Leonard shot over 52% in the series, made over 48% of his 3 point attempts and he averaged over 30 PPG in the series this past year. During the regular season Kawhi shot 42% against the Grizzlies, hit 42% of his 3 point attempts and averaged 24.3 PPG. 

I don't know if having TA would have made a tremendous difference in the series going 7 games or even if the Grizzlies could have pulled an upset. Clearly the Grizzlies needed Marc Gasol to play like he did in game 1 the entire series. The Grizzlies needed someone to step up as a go to scorer in Game 6 when Marc was scared to touch the ball. The team needed more reliable big men outside of Gasol and Randolph. Gregg Popovich is a superior coach at this time to David Fizdale. 

I believe the relevant regular seasons stats from this past year suggest Kawhi Leonard would not have had the success he had against Memphis in the playoffs if Tony Allen, a 2nd team all NBA defensive selection, was able to play. At least that's a far more accurate a reference point than the 2012-13 playoffs series against San Antonio. 

I don't criticize but I also don't glorify certain players for their success guarding Kawhi when he averaged 30 PPG, shot 52% from the floor and 48% from the arc in the series. 

 

 

 I provided factual information that was the body of work vs an assumption.  You are hyper focused on what Kawhi may not have been able to score had Tony played. What you fail to take into account is the negative impact(s) that Tony would have brought. Tony on the floor means more flexibility for opponent double teaming and less offensive effectiveness. Against another team Tony may have been impactful, but not the Spurs. Just because Kawhi had an easier time without Tony does not mean the Spurs would have failed as a team against the Grizzlies. To imagine that the Spurs would not have adjusted their team play and lost is ridiculous. 

The past performances against the Spurs very much suggest that Tony would not have made an impact, and undoubtedly he would not have made "a huge impact". In the past, keeping Kawhi from scoring 30 plus was not the magic recipe of success against the Spurs. Why you would think it suddenly would have been during the playoffs is simply imagined. Tony's negative impact(s) would have once again been exploited as they have been many times before. The Grizzlies were the worst shooting team in the league last season. Had Tony played during the playoffs it would have only made it easier for Popovich to exploit that fact.

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Blackwatch    0
On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:13 AM, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

I agree...bt ta would have never been happy with that role...imo him and zb0 had to much emotionally invested in this team to take lesser though more effective roles...one of the reason why I think the FO decided to move on...being for real that was the only way this team would ever change....with that being said I'm excited to see what our core 5 (conley,evans,parsons,jam,gasol) can pull off this season

 

 

Oh me, Oh my, that starting 5 will be lucky to see 30 wins in the West. Also, I think B Mac would be the starter rather than Evans at the 2. I think they see Reke as the Backup PG or SF. Its gonna be a long season.

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chipc3    0
20 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

 I provided factual information that was the body of work vs an assumption.  You are hyper focused on what Kawhi may not have been able to score had Tony played. What you fail to take into account is the negative impact(s) that Tony would have brought. Tony on the floor means more flexibility for opponent double teaming and less offensive effectiveness. Against another team Tony may have been impactful, but not the Spurs. Just because Kawhi had an easier time without Tony does not mean the Spurs would have failed as a team against the Grizzlies. To imagine that the Spurs would not have adjusted their team play and lost is ridiculous. 

The past performances against the Spurs very much suggest that Tony would not have made an impact, and undoubtedly he would not have made "a huge impact". In the past, keeping Kawhi from scoring 30 plus was not the magic recipe of success against the Spurs. Why you would think it suddenly would have been during the playoffs is simply imagined. Tony's negative impact(s) would have once again been exploited as they have been many times before. The Grizzlies were the worst shooting team in the league last season. Had Tony played during the playoffs it would have only made it easier for Popovich to exploit that fact.

I never meant to suggest Tony would have made an impact on the team's results. I was specifically talking about the effect on Kawhi. Allen's performance against Kawhi during the 2016-17 season compared to Kawhi's 2017 playoff performance is relevant more than the 2013 playoff performance of the team, the performance of the Grizzlies in March of 2016 or the playoff performance of 2016.

All of those stats you used were to prove a point I never made. I have not nor do I intend to argue that Tony Allen alone would effect the team's overall performance. I do believe Tony Allen alone could have had a major impact on Kawhi Leonard's performance and I do not believe that the replacements did a good job defending Kawhi nor should anyone feel content that they will do so in the future based on the playoff performance in 2017. I am sorry you didn't understand this from my original comment nor my first response to you. 

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David Aldridge's Off-season rankings. I mean, on the bright side, we didn't come in dead last.

Quote

ADDED: G Ben McLemore (two years, $10 million); G Tyreke Evans (one year, $3.2 million); G Mario Chalmers (one year, $2.1 million); F Rade Zagorac (three years, $2.3 million): F Ivan Rabb (No. 35 pick, 2017 Draft; Rights acquired from Orlando); F Dillon Brooks (No. 35 pick, 2017 Draft; Rights acquired from Brooklyn).

LOST: F Zach Randolph (signed with Sacramento); G Vince Carter (signed with Sacramento); F Wayne Selden (declined team option)

RETAINED: None

THE KEY MAN: F Chandler Parsons. He’s just 28, but the trend line of his last five NBA seasons is not encouraging: 76 games played in 2012-13, to 74 the following season, to 66, to 61, to last season’s 34, in his first season with the Grizz after signing a four-year, $94 million max deal. Signing him was a coup for Memphis, which had to prove it could attract marquee free agents. But it will only pay off -- figuratively and literally -- if Parsons is on the floor instead of in street clothes, out with yet another knee injury. (He is, apparently, not making any friends in town by spending so much time rehabbing and living large in Los Angeles rather than the 901.) The Grizz desperately need his floor-stretching ability and secondary playmaking skills on the floor with Mike Conley and Marc Gasol next year if they’re going to stay afloat in the loaded West.

THE SKINNY: With so much invested in their starters last summer (Conley’s $150 million contract; along with Parsons’s mega-deal), the Grizz didn’t have much of a chance to re-sign Randolph, who accepted a role coming off the bench for Coach David Fizdale. And unless there’s a dramatic shift, Tony Allen -- the other half of Grit-N-Grind all these years in Memphis -- will be gone, too, not to mention the sage head of Carter. Add to that the potential departure of starting four JaMychal Green via free agency, and that would be a lot of knowledge and a lot of the team’s identity out the door in one summer, and a lot to replace. (If Allen and Green come back to Memphis, the offseason ranking would improve some.) The Grizzlies have to count on a return to health and production from Parsons, who again missed almost all of a season with knee problems. The Grizzlies took fliers on low-cost options like McLemore, who couldn’t make things work consistently enough in Sacramento, and Evans, who starred locally in the 901 for John Calipari’s last team at the University of Memphis. They could help some. But in a conference that became even more impenetrable this summer, the Grizz feel like they’re going in the wrong direction.

1

 

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Blackwatch    0

Aldridge has a good bead on this team. Too much hinges on Parsons' knee, which doesn't bode well for the team's fortunes. Also, he's right, there is no guarantee that Jam Green will be back. If he bolts, call the lottery.

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5 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Oh me, Oh my, that starting 5 will be lucky to see 30 wins in the West. Also, I think B Mac would be the starter rather than Evans at the 2. I think they see Reke as the Backup PG or SF. Its gonna be a long season.

and may I ask what you are basing this on....because on paper that one heck of a starting five.

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Blackwatch    0
42 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

and may I ask what you are basing this on....because on paper that one heck of a starting five.

Over an 82 game season, the only consistent, proven "Alpha" Scorer in that line-up is ... not there. Conley and Gasol can get hot, and when they are, they are All-star caliber players. But there is a reason why Conley has never been an All-Star (inconsistency) and Gasol has only been named one because there are only 4 true centers left in the league. 15 years ago, Gasol may not start at center for a good team because of his lack of low post scoring/skills and rebounding. Everyone else in that starting line-up is either unproven or injured. So, I wonder what paper you read that tells you that this is a "heck of a starting five" ?  

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1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Over an 82 game season, the only consistent, proven "Alpha" Scorer in that line-up is ... not there. Conley and Gasol can get hot, and when they are, they are All-star caliber players. But there is a reason why Conley has never been an All-Star (inconsistency) and Gasol has only been named one because there are only 4 true centers left in the league. 15 years ago, Gasol may not start at center for a good team because of his lack of low post scoring/skills and rebounding. Everyone else in that starting line-up is either unproven or injured. So, I wonder what paper you read that tells you that this is a "heck of a starting five" ?  

first off every player that is signed to the team IS Heathly...they are ALL clear to play basketball...wether they stay healthy is a different story

second why need a alpha scorer when you would have 4 guys able to go for 30 on any given night (conley,gasol,parsons,evans)

third this aint 15yrs ago...there is a lot of players 15yrs ago that wouldnt even make it in the league now.

last I don't let other ppl opinon of the team affect mine...so this "heck of a starting 5" is my feeling on it own.

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SC Grizz    0
1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Over an 82 game season, the only consistent, proven "Alpha" Scorer in that line-up is ... not there. Conley and Gasol can get hot, and when they are, they are All-star caliber players. But there is a reason why Conley has never been an All-Star (inconsistency) and Gasol has only been named one because there are only 4 true centers left in the league. 15 years ago, Gasol may not start at center for a good team because of his lack of low post scoring/skills and rebounding. Everyone else in that starting line-up is either unproven or injured. So, I wonder what paper you read that tells you that this is a "heck of a starting five" ?  

Pretty sure Gasol has been to three All Star games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gasol) though honestly it feels like two because they never give him playing time. Zbo ran into the same deal when he was an All Star for us. 

I think you are sleeping on Conley. Just my opinion. 

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Blackwatch    0
15 hours ago, SC Grizz said:

Pretty sure Gasol has been to three All Star games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gasol) though honestly it feels like two because they never give him playing time. Zbo ran into the same deal when he was an All Star for us. 

I think you are sleeping on Conley. Just my opinion. 

Conley is a great Player, and a great PG at that. But, until he can put up 25 a night, you can't count on him for 25 a night. Sure he can go off for 30, like Gasol and (theoretically) Parsons and Reke, but the reason they don't even average 20 a game is that for every night they go off for 30, there will be 3 or 4 where they score just 10. That's what I mean by inconsistency. So, you need a consistent scorer to help when the others just have their regularly scheduled "off" nights.

Conley is your typical over achiever. He has great skill development and athleticism, just not much natural ability, or as least not as much as your superstars like CP3, Westbrook, Harden. So everything he accomplishes, he works his tail off for. That is a great trait to have, but that also means that things come harder for him than those superstars. This means his ceiling isn't as high as theirs. These are not bad things, just limitations. He a great NBA player who has a nice game and will have a great career. Is that enough to win rings with the Grizz? I don't think so, but it is what it is.

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BHZMAFIA    0

I'm not going to sit up here and say Conley can average 25ppg, but I think he definitely showed last season (including playoffs) that he's capable of being an elite scoring guard. I saw this on Twitter about a week ago related to his scoring ability: 

Quote

As a spot up-shooter: 

- 1.19PPP

- 90.4 percentile

- No.19 among guys w/ > 150 attempts

- Ranked higher than Beal, Klay & Ryan Anderson

- Among guys w/ > 200 FGA between 25' and 29' away, Conley ranked No. 1 overall at 43.2%

Coming off screens:

1.34 PPP 

97.2 percentile

- No.1 among players w/ > 100 attempts off screens

 

Pick n Roll scorer:

- 1.01 PPP

- 92 percentile

- No.4 among guys w/ > 500 looks (behind only IT, Harden and Lillard)

 

In Isolation:

- 1.00 PPP

- 82.6 percentile

- No. 12 among guys w/ > 125 isos (ahead of Melo and Russ)

 

 

Mind you, this was really his first season scratching the service as the aggressor. Having more talented wings around him should only make him better next year. That's why I think Tyreke/Parsons (maybe even Chalmers) will make a huge impact as to how much more Conley can elevate his game.

 

We had to rely far too heavily on Conley last season from a creator, ball handling and scoring standpoint. Very few players in the NBA are capable of carrying that type of load for a full season. However, with the guys we currently have that handle the ball (if healthy), this will make Conley standout even more. 

He had 20 games of 24+ points last season and I believe 9 30-point games. That's pretty much with guys like TA, Harrison, Selden, Ennis, Daniels, etc. playing in the backcourt with him. Do I think he's a natural born scorer like Kyrie, IT, Westbrook, Kemba, etc? No, but I do think his way of scoring is so efficient that he's capable of putting up big numbers a lot more often with better wing talent around him. 

Considering those guys were all taking 18+ shots a game compared to Conley's 14.6. All those guys had better perimeter help as well. 

Its one thing to put up 20+ as a small PG on a playoff contending team, but its another thing to do so as efficiently and effectively Mike did it considering the wing depth of the team. I'm expecting more big things from this year, but it a lot of it relies on the guys surrounding him.

 

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SC Grizz    0
1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Conley is a great Player, and a great PG at that. But, until he can put up 25 a night, you can't count on him for 25 a night. Sure he can go off for 30, like Gasol and (theoretically) Parsons and Reke, but the reason they don't even average 20 a game is that for every night they go off for 30, there will be 3 or 4 where they score just 10. That's what I mean by inconsistency. So, you need a consistent scorer to help when the others just have their regularly scheduled "off" nights.

Conley is your typical over achiever. He has great skill development and athleticism, just not much natural ability, or as least not as much as your superstars like CP3, Westbrook, Harden. So everything he accomplishes, he works his tail off for. That is a great trait to have, but that also means that things come harder for him than those superstars. This means his ceiling isn't as high as theirs. These are not bad things, just limitations. He a great NBA player who has a nice game and will have a great career. Is that enough to win rings with the Grizz? I don't think so, but it is what it is.

Your point definitely has some merit. I do not want to simply brush it off as "wrong" and mine "right". It is just my opinion that MC is the type to never put his personal success above the team. I remember an article a couple of years back where he was talking about mentally checking himself and distributing the ball to the guy who "needed the touch". 

When you remove Zbo's scoring (and playing style) from the team I believe that it creates a void of primary or "go-to" scorer that can only be filled by Mike. Only time will tell if he is going to step up into that role or if he will let other guys like Chandler Parson or Tyreke or whoever try to. 

One thing I definitely agree with you on is that Mike Conley will not be enough for us to win a ring. :D

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chipc3    0
3 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Conley is a great Player, and a great PG at that. But, until he can put up 25 a night, you can't count on him for 25 a night. Sure he can go off for 30, like Gasol and (theoretically) Parsons and Reke, but the reason they don't even average 20 a game is that for every night they go off for 30, there will be 3 or 4 where they score just 10. That's what I mean by inconsistency. So, you need a consistent scorer to help when the others just have their regularly scheduled "off" nights.

Conley is your typical over achiever. He has great skill development and athleticism, just not much natural ability, or as least not as much as your superstars like CP3, Westbrook, Harden. So everything he accomplishes, he works his tail off for. That is a great trait to have, but that also means that things come harder for him than those superstars. This means his ceiling isn't as high as theirs. These are not bad things, just limitations. He a great NBA player who has a nice game and will have a great career. Is that enough to win rings with the Grizz? I don't think so, but it is what it is.

Conley averaged 20.4 PPG last season. 

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