nwagrizzfan

Every Team's Projected 2017-18 Record

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For me its just hard to believe we will win as many down the wire games as they have in the past without as much "toughness" on board. TA and Zbo just got rough with the game on the line and as said earlier they get calls down the stretch in particular.

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some ppl say we only won 43 games last year because of ta/zbo/vc.....I say we won 43 games last year despite have to play two outdated 35yr old  and a 40yr vet and a noexisting parsons...come on guys heck we will easily 24 games at home

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17 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Not unreasonable when you look past Mike and Marc...

I understand what you're saying, and was inclined to agree until I looked it up. 

Last season the Grizzlies were 43-39, and were still above .500 without Mike and/or Marc playing; 11-8 (32-31 in games with both Mike and Marc).

In games where Mike was out but Marc still played the Grizzlies were 8-3. In games with Marc out and Conley played; 3-3. Grizzlies were 0-2 when both did not play.

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16 hours ago, Michael D said:

Also, I'm optimistic that Selden will turn into a decent rotation player but I would calm down on the predictions that he will become a starter by season end.  He did a good job in the playoffs against San Antonio but if you guys don't remember Quincy Pondexter did the exact same thing.  He had a decent showing in the playoffs and also had a few moments on the floor when he was able to get off the bench.  Last time he played he was getting garbage with the Pelicans...the Pelicans.

Hold your horses on Selden is all I'm saying.

Quincy had serious knee injuries that ruined his career. There is no telling what could have happened if he had remained healthy. 

Three knee surgeries were his downfall. That's kind of scary considering the Grizzlies have two players trying to recover from 3 knee surgeries. Like Evans QPon had three knee surgeries on the same knee. Parsons divided them between both his knees. 

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17 hours ago, Allen said:

Tyreke can replace Zbo's scoring and Ennis was being groomed to replace TA as the defense stopper all year long last season. This is also still and veteran laden team so losing Vince leadership isnt a killer.

I think if the team can stay healthy and Parsons has anything left in his knee they are winning at least 45

I expect both Tyreke and Parsons to makeup the point production of TA+Zbo+VC.    They are both skilled enough scorers to be able to do that easily in the right system and usage.  

I'd hedge my bet on Wayne Selden becoming the more prolific defender over Ennis.   His defense on Kawhi and Buddy Hield (summer league) showed me he has the higher ceiling.  

I agree that we are winning 45 games.  

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29 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I expect both Tyreke and Parsons to makeup the point production of TA+Zbo+VC.    They are both skilled enough scorers to be able to do that easily in the right system and usage.  

I'd hedge my bet on Wayne Selden becoming the more prolific defender over Ennis.   His defense on Kawhi and Buddy Hield (summer league) showed me he has the higher ceiling.  

I agree that we are winning 45 games.  

Oh joy! the upside is 45 wins!!! Assuming Parsons, Evans, Conley and Gasol all stay healthy and Selden shows that he can play as a 3 and D player (he did hold Kawhi to 31 PPG on 54.8% shooting and 48.3% from the arc in the playoffs last year).

Frankly I am surprised that someone who advocated firing a coach who won 42 games with one of the worst rosters in league history down the stretch and who advocated firing a coach who took the franchise to the conference finals would be content with 45 wins. Fizdale was supposed to be the savior not the manager of the franchise's decline. I'm sorry but Parsons and Evans look like damaged goods to me, Conley and Gasol need both play over 70 games which is unlikely given their ages and their previous injuries and Selden hasn't proven anything to me yet. I hope the Grizzlies can reach 38 wins but  that will take a lot of luck given the current make up of the team. 

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56 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Frankly I am surprised that someone who advocated firing a coach who won 42 games with one of the worst rosters in league history down the stretch

You keep saying that but i know you watched the games.  The team had pretty much won 80% of those games before the all the injuries mounted up.   Joerger didn't win much of anything when he was playing the "worst roster" in the league.   That's some serious revisionist history stuff you are pulling there. 

1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

would be content with 45 wins. Fizdale was supposed to be the savior not the manager of the franchise's decline.

Who says I am content with 45 wins?  I am a realist and this is a season of serious change and transition.  Talent wins games and the West is more talented than ever.   45 wins for a team full of youth and question marks is actually pretty good in this climate.     #context

Also when have i ever said Fizdale is some Savior??  You must be confusing me with somebody else. 

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41 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

 

You keep saying that but i know you watched the games.  The team had pretty much won 80% of those games before the all the injuries mounted up.   Joerger didn't win much of anything when he was playing the "worst roster" in the league.   That's some serious revisionist history stuff you are pulling there. 

Who says I am content with 45 wins?  I am a realist and this is a season of serious change and transition.  Talent wins games and the West is more talented than ever.   45 wins for a team full of youth and question marks is actually pretty good in this climate.     #context

Also when have i ever said Fizdale is some Savior??  You must be confusing me with somebody else. 

Oh I totally agree that Joerger was winning those games with the team prior to the rash of injuries. You still were advocating firing Joerger despite his success. You wanted him gone when the team was winning not because that pathetic example of team he was forced to end the season with.

You advocated firing Hollins and hiring Joerger despite Hollins winning too. Now we have seen a year of Fizdale and his grand 43 wins and you are not advocating firing him. You are even hoping for 45 wins with Parsons and Evans reproducing what Z-Bo, Carter, Parsons and Allen gave the team last season (37.1 PPG, 19.3 RPG, 3.5 SPG) to reach that 45 win total. I believe it's more likely they'll have another knee surgery than replicate what was lost from last season.

You keep saying how much you loved Selden's defense on Kahwi in the playoffs but the man averaged 31 points a game on 54.8% shooting overall and 48.3% from the arc.  I'm not blaming Selden but I am definitely not singing his praises for that performance either. The team lost a 2nd team all defensive player from last year and you are content replacing him with a player who held Kawhi to 31 points a game??? 

And yes you have been singing Fizdale's praise from the day he was hired. Are you now saying you aren't that enamored with him? I thought you were going to wait until after the All-Star break before changing your mind about him?  How will you feel about him if the team doesn't reach .500 on the season? 

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23 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You advocated firing Hollins and hiring Joerger despite Hollins winning too. Now we have seen a year of Fizdale and his grand 43 wins and you are not advocating firing him. You are even hoping for 45 wins with Parsons and Evans reproducing what Z-Bo, Carter, Parsons and Allen gave the team last season (37.1 PPG, 19.3 RPG, 3.5 SPG) to reach that 45 win total. I believe it's more likely they'll have another knee surgery than replicate what was lost from last season.

win% is NOT the only criteria that i (and apparently FO) use when judging a coach.   George Karl got fired same year as Hollins although he took DEN to the playoffs for the first time in years.    Once again context is everything.  If the coach's vision doesn't line up with the FO then they become expendable.   If the coach doesn't get along with Star players then they become expendable.  It happens every season. 

26 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You keep saying how much you loved Selden's defense on Kahwi in the playoffs but the man averaged 31 points a game on 54.8% shooting overall and 48.3% from the arc.  I'm not blaming Selden but I am definitely not singing his praises for that performance either. The team lost a 2nd team all defensive player from last year and you are content replacing him with a player who held Kawhi to 31 points a game??? 

How well did Trevor Ariza do on Kawhi?  Or Klay or Durant do on him in the playoffs?   C'mon man, you are smarter than this.   Selden showed potential and willingness to work on defense.   He already has all the tools needed (size, speed, strength) to be great defender.  His performance in the playoffs just showed that he also possesses the intangibles(IQ, motor, and effort) as well.     Contrary to popular belief Tony Allen was not an elite  lockdown defender his first year in the league- he grew into that role. 

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17 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Good to see there's still a Mod on these boards, Gman1, know what happened to Toke?

I am not sure.  Been away from the boards for too long myself.  I plan to be more active this coming season. 

Let me know if I need to put the smack down on anyone! B)

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Joerger had to go because he was throwing not-so-subtle shots at the front office via the press.  It was obvious.  He was promoted to Hollins position because Hollins had done the same thing and Joerger was supposed to be a company guy.  I guess Levien's firing ended the chances of that happening for Joerger.  Fizdale appears to be in alignment with the front office and have their support.

Most fans did not want Hollins fired.  That was all FO (Levien).  The public was backing him.  Joerger was kind of screwed from the start because he was seen as a backstabber.  Hollins even insinuated so in an interview.  He gave him a backhanded compliment while saying that he's a good dude that doesn't deserve to be seen as a backstabber.  He put that out there in the public and Dave's peers minds.

Joerger never really had the chance to set up a legacy here.  Fizdale is in a better position to succeed. 

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3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Oh joy! the upside is 45 wins!!! Assuming Parsons, Evans, Conley and Gasol all stay healthy and Selden shows that he can play as a 3 and D player (he did hold Kawhi to 31 PPG on 54.8% shooting and 48.3% from the arc in the playoffs last year).

Frankly I am surprised that someone who advocated firing a coach who won 42 games with one of the worst rosters in league history down the stretch and who advocated firing a coach who took the franchise to the conference finals would be content with 45 wins. Fizdale was supposed to be the savior not the manager of the franchise's decline. I'm sorry but Parsons and Evans look like damaged goods to me, Conley and Gasol need both play over 70 games which is unlikely given their ages and their previous injuries and Selden hasn't proven anything to me yet. I hope the Grizzlies can reach 38 wins but  that will take a lot of luck given the current make up of the team. 

Those stats for Leonard don't paint the whole picture. I don't have access to the stats, but when Leonard was being actively guarded by Seldon he didn't fare to well.

 

i actually tried to rewind and notate the time where Seldon actually guarded Leonard during the playoffs but my dvr sucks. If you go back and actually WATCHwhen both Ennis and Seldon were one on one with him he didn't make a lot of plays. It's when the ball movement happened that Leonard took advantage.   I'm really surprised Seldon didn't get more burn than he did with the way he played.

As a matter of fact I plainly remember it most other players getting scored on besides those two. It was fun to watch. 

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5 hours ago, Father Pat said:

I understand what you're saying, and was inclined to agree until I looked it up. 

Last season the Grizzlies were 43-39, and were still above .500 without Mike and/or Marc playing; 11-8 (32-31 in games with both Mike and Marc).

In games where Mike was out but Marc still played the Grizzlies were 8-3. In games with Marc out and Conley played; 3-3. Grizzlies were 0-2 when both did not play.

The problem with this is that we had Zbo, Tony, and Vince to help with those wins.  While all three were past their prime, they did have very good games at times--often when Mike and/or Marc weren't available.

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59 minutes ago, Memphis Maverick said:

Those stats for Leonard don't paint the whole picture. I don't have access to the stats, but when Leonard was being actively guarded by Seldon he didn't fare to well.

 

i actually tried to rewind and notate the time where Seldon actually guarded Leonard during the playoffs but my dvr sucks. If you go back and actually WATCHwhen both Ennis and Seldon were one on one with him he didn't make a lot of plays. It's when the ball movement happened that Leonard took advantage.   I'm really surprised Seldon didn't get more burn than he did with the way he played.

As a matter of fact I plainly remember it most other players getting scored on besides those two. It was fun to watch. 

Although we will never know for sure, do you believe Kawhi would have scored like that against Tony? 

Just a rhetorical question. There is no "right" answer but I believe our 2nd team all defense player would have performed better. I never remember anyone going off against Tony like that for 6 straight games. 

 

1 hour ago, Michael D said:

Joerger had to go because he was throwing not-so-subtle shots at the front office via the press.  It was obvious.  He was promoted to Hollins position because Hollins had done the same thing and Joerger was supposed to be a company guy.  I guess Levien's firing ended the chances of that happening for Joerger.  Fizdale appears to be in alignment with the front office and have their support.

Most fans did not want Hollins fired.  That was all FO (Levien).  The public was backing him.  Joerger was kind of screwed from the start because he was seen as a backstabber.  Hollins even insinuated so in an interview.  He gave him a backhanded compliment while saying that he's a good dude that doesn't deserve to be seen as a backstabber.  He put that out there in the public and Dave's peers minds.

Joerger never really had the chance to set up a legacy here.  Fizdale is in a better position to succeed. 

I don't deny that Joerger had to go at the end. Some people were demanding he go when he was successful however. You are correct that Joerger was never given a chance in Memphis. He was nearly fired two weeks in. He was given a mandate to win immediately. He was never given the type of player who could help the team advance further than the 2nd round. No one should forget that Joerger was hired by Levien not Wallace. After his first year the man who hired him was fired so it was just a matter of time before Joerger was gone too. What allowed him to hang around was the fact that he kept winning. 

If Joerger had the type of season Fizdale did last year he would have been fired much earlier. 

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30 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Although we will never know for sure, do you believe Kawhi would have scored like that against Tony? 

Just a rhetorical question. There is no "right" answer but I believe our 2nd team all defense player would have performed better. I never remember anyone going off against Tony like that for 6 straight games. 

 

I don't deny that Joerger had to go at the end. Some people were demanding he go when he was successful however. You are correct that Joerger was never given a chance in Memphis. He was nearly fired two weeks in. He was given a mandate to win immediately. He was never given the type of player who could help the team advance further than the 2nd round. No one should forget that Joerger was hired by Levien not Wallace. After his first year the man who hired him was fired so it was just a matter of time before Joerger was gone too. What allowed him to hang around was the fact that he kept winning. 

If Joerger had the type of season Fizdale did last year he would have been fired much earlier. 

I don't. Majority of Leonard's misses came from Ennis and Seldon. And as far as productivity goes on offense, gave more than Tony could. 

 

I:e, spreading the floor. 

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42 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Although we will never know for sure, do you believe Kawhi would have scored like that against Tony? 

Just a rhetorical question. There is no "right" answer but I believe our 2nd team all defense player would have performed better. I never remember anyone going off against Tony like that for 6 straight games. 

He may have. TA's best years - even on defense - are past him now though.

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11 minutes ago, Memphis Maverick said:

I don't. Majority of Leonard's misses came from Ennis and Seldon. And as far as productivity goes on offense, gave more than Tony could. 

 

I:e, spreading the floor. 

There weren't a lot of misses by Kawhi so either Ennis and Selden didn't play against him much or they weren't that effective either. Either way, there is nothing about what Kawhi did to the team last year that someone should stand up and be proud of the defense played. 

Spreading the floor should help on offense but they aren't good enough shooters, or at least haven't proven they are yet, to radically change how teams play the Grizzlies. 

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1 minute ago, SC Grizz said:

He may have. TA's best years - even on defense - are past him now though.

No question. I am not challenging the team's decision to move away from him. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

No question. I am not challenging the team's decision to move away from him. 

Most likely he (TA) would have had at least one "Shut down" game on Leonard - to directly answer your previous question. ;)

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4 minutes ago, SC Grizz said:

Most likely he (TA) would have had at least one "Shut down" game on Leonard - to directly answer your previous question. ;)

I loved Tony's energy and passion but to be honest he was always a turnover waiting to happen...on both sides of the court! 

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6 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Frankly I am surprised that someone who advocated firing a coach who won 42 games with one of the worst rosters in league history down the stretch and who advocated firing a coach who took the franchise to the conference finals would be content with 45 wins. Fizdale was supposed to be the savior not the manager of the franchise's decline. 

(1) When did GTF say he'd be content with 45 wins? He just said that's his most likely number. 

(2) Fiz didn't make the roster. To judge him we need to predict how many wins this roster AS IT IS should be capable of, and see if he got us higher or lower than that (adjusting for injuries, of course)

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

I loved Tony's energy and passion but to be honest he was always a turnover waiting to happen...on both sides of the court! 

Yes, Tony was a love/hate kind of player anyways.  His game was polarizing.  He cost us wins as well as helped us win games because of his silly turnovers and bonehead missed layups.

We can all appreciate him better once he's gone and the memory of his mishaps has faded.

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I will always be a Tony Allen fan.  He brought energy and passion and joy and yes, sometimes exasperation with missed layups.

Consider this in terms of Grizzlies playoff history.

Every year in his 7 year stint as a Grizzly, the Grizzlies made the playoffs.  Before Tony, the Grizzlies made the playoffs 3 times in 15 years.

When Tony played in a playoff game, the Grizzlies record was 27-29.

When Tony was on the bench due to injury or whatever, we were only 2-5.

And before Tony joined the team, the Grizzlies playoff record was 0-12.

 

 

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12 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Oh joy! the upside is 45 wins!!! Assuming Parsons, Evans, Conley and Gasol all stay healthy and Selden shows that he can play as a 3 and D player (he did hold Kawhi to 31 PPG on 54.8% shooting and 48.3% from the arc in the playoffs last year).

Frankly I am surprised that someone who advocated firing a coach who won 42 games with one of the worst rosters in league history down the stretch and who advocated firing a coach who took the franchise to the conference finals would be content with 45 wins. Fizdale was supposed to be the savior not the manager of the franchise's decline. I'm sorry but Parsons and Evans look like damaged goods to me, Conley and Gasol need both play over 70 games which is unlikely given their ages and their previous injuries and Selden hasn't proven anything to me yet. I hope the Grizzlies can reach 38 wins but  that will take a lot of luck given the current make up of the team. 

golden state injury prone- curry durant

Houston rockets injury prone- paul gordon

clippers injury prone- griffen gallinari

spurs injury prone-parker ginobli aldrigde

there not an elite team in the west that you cold say doesn't have injurie concerns..so why do ppl assume our guys are going to just fall apart while other "injury prone" guys stay healthy...all I'm saying we aint the only team whose record hinges on good health.

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21 hours ago, Gman1 said:

I am not sure.  Been away from the boards for too long myself.  I plan to be more active this coming season. 

Let me know if I need to put the smack down on anyone! B)

No smack downs will probably be necessary.  You  mods have trained us all to be pretty well behaved most of the time.:P

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