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27 minutes ago, Iron Mike said:

Yikes, can Parsons play the 4 spot?

He can barely stay healthy playing the 3, I don't see him moving to the 4 despite his height.

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Blackwatch    0
16 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

conley/chalmers/baldwin

mclemore/harrison/sheldon

evans/ennis/brooks

parsons/martin/rabb

gasol/wright/davis

I like out team even if jam doesn't come back

Even if Green comes back, this team lacks elite scoring, rebounding, and D. They will be lucky to win 25 games. I hope I'm wrong, and that would only be if one of the young players steps up big time. What a horrible job by the F.O. SMH !!!!!

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Michael D    0
54 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Even if Green comes back, this team lacks elite scoring, rebounding, and D. They will be lucky to win 25 games. I hope I'm wrong, and that would only be if one of the young players steps up big time. What a horrible job by the F.O. SMH !!!!!

Lucky to win 25 games?  Dang!

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1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Even if Green comes back, this team lacks elite scoring, rebounding, and D. They will be lucky to win 25 games. I hope I'm wrong, and that would only be if one of the young players steps up big time. What a horrible job by the F.O. SMH !!!!!

How is that?  The top 2 scorers from last years team are back so if you considered them an elite scoring team last season then Mike and Marc are the reason why.   Rebounding maybe but they weren't an elite rebouding team last season anyway.   Defensively they will be just fine.    Did you project last years team to be a 25 win one too?  If not then you shouldn't predict this one to be either. 

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GF#1    0
1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Even if Green comes back, this team lacks elite scoring, rebounding, and D. They will be lucky to win 25 games. I hope I'm wrong, and that would only be if one of the young players steps up big time. What a horrible job by the F.O. SMH !!!!!

25 games. :lol:

I would definitely call this the total "sky is falling" prediction.

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cdp    0

Ideally they stick Brooks n Rabb in the dleague for the year. Then really all they have to worry bout is who sticks at pg;


Conley/Harrison/Chalmers or Baldwin
McLemore/Daniels/Selden
Parsons/Evans/Zagorac
Green/Ennis/Martin
Gasol/Wright/Davis 
 

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chipc3    0
1 minute ago, fanboyslim said:

We will be lucky if we win 25 quarters.

tenor.gif

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chipc3    0
Just now, fanboyslim said:

I fully expect to be out of playoff contention by the 3rd quarter of the season opener.

That reminds me of the time Memphis Slim said the Grizzlies needed to fire Mike Fratello... after the 1st quarter...

of the first game...

of the pre-season! 

The Grizzlies came back and won that game too. 

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Blackwatch    0
57 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

How is that?  The top 2 scorers from last years team are back so if you considered them an elite scoring team last season then Mike and Marc are the reason why.   Rebounding maybe but they weren't an elite rebouding team last season anyway.   Defensively they will be just fine.    Did you project last years team to be a 25 win one too?  If not then you shouldn't predict this one to be either. 

This was not an elite scoring team last year. The top two scorers needed Z-bo's 12-18 pts off the bench each night to keep them in games. He's gone with no replacement of that scoring. The attitude and playmaking on D of TA is gone and there is no one that was signed to replace that. So, with those pieces in place, and a screwed up starting line up, this team was a 43 win team, losing mainly because of starting Parsons. If they had started the core 4 all year, they would've been a 50 win team at least. Now, you are proposing to go into a whole year of Parsons starting and dragging his leg around the perimeter and D'ing up nothing (not even the scorers table), Tyreke and MacL in the rotation, and a "roadrunner" Conley running out of gas by mid-January and getting injured by March. Gasol will probably quit on the team by November (the season starts Oct. 17th) and will demand a trade, and then you are left starting DD at the 5 and praying that this team can score 85 pts./gm. That my friend is a recipe for 25 wins at the most.

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37 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

This was not an elite scoring team last year. The top two scorers needed Z-bo's 12-18 pts off the bench each night to keep them in games. He's gone with no replacement of that scoring.

C'mon man i know you know that both Chandler and Tyreke each career average 12-18ppg themselves.   Replacing Zbo's points has been addressed bigtime.  Not to mention that we may keep Chalmers and Ben should be able to avg 9-11ppg as well.   Tyreke will be playing the role of Zbo as the bench lead scorer.   Besides when was the last time we were an elite scoring team??2010??

42 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

The attitude and playmaking on D of TA is gone and there is no one that was signed to replace that.

Yes there was nobody signed to replace the gambling for steals and leaving 3pt shooters open to overhelp on D and mess up rotations in favor of sensational plays.   :P    Fizdale wants a more switch happy defense that requires more disciplined and versatile defenders.  Our defense should not fall off a cliff due to one perimeter defender missing.  Besides the team D was pretty good when Tony and Zbo were in streetclothes this past season. 

47 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

If they had started the core 4 all year, they would've been a 50 win team at least.

They had the CORE4 the entire time last season and season before that and we weren't 50 win teams.  You have to keep in mind nobody kept the CORE4 off the court but themselves (injuries).   That wasn't going to change as they got older.  

 

49 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Now, you are proposing to go into a whole year of Parsons starting and dragging his leg around the perimeter and D'ing up nothing (not even the scorers table), Tyreke and MacL in the rotation, and a "roadrunner" Conley running out of gas by mid-January and getting injured by March. Gasol will probably quit on the team by November (the season starts Oct. 17th) and will demand a trade, and then you are left starting DD at the 5 and praying that this team can score 85 pts./gm. That my friend is a recipe for 25 wins at the most.

No i am proposing starting Parsons if he is healthy.  Tyreke is a good player so i dont understand your criticizing of him.  BenMac should at very least be able to provide same ppg as Tony with added bonus of floor spacing.   Conley finally has help so why would he run out of gas when we have Reke, Harrison, and potentially Chalmers backing him up?    I predict Conley takes it up another notch this season and gets in AllStar discussion even in this newer more crowded West. 

I will agree that losing Tony and Zbo will affect the toughness of the team and maybe even respect from other vet players.   Their loss will be felt in with the intangibles.   They will not be missed very much if at all when it comes to offense, defense, and wins/losses.  

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4 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Even if Green comes back, this team lacks elite scoring, rebounding, and D. They will be lucky to win 25 games. I hope I'm wrong, and that would only be if one of the young players steps up big time. What a horrible job by the F.O. SMH !!!!!

rebounding may be a problem...but not scoring and defense...we have a legit 4 guys that could go for 30 on any given night (comely,gasol,parson,evans) and on defense we have enough quick/samesized guys for we can move quickly on the defensive end and switch a lot of screen actions

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Gradey    0
2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

That reminds me of the time Memphis Slim said the Grizzlies needed to fire Mike Fratello... after the 1st quarter...

of the first game...

of the pre-season! 

The Grizzlies came back and won that game too. 

Heh in Slim's defense he was right on that one :D  The Tsar sucked (or should I say Tsucked).

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Dwash    0
1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

C'mon man i know you know that both Chandler and Tyreke each career average 12-18ppg themselves.   Replacing Zbo's points has been addressed bigtime.  Not to mention that we may keep Chalmers and Ben should be able to avg 9-11ppg as well.   Tyreke will be playing the role of Zbo as the bench lead scorer.   Besides when was the last time we were an elite scoring team??2010??

Yes there was nobody signed to replace the gambling for steals and leaving 3pt shooters open to overhelp on D and mess up rotations in favor of sensational plays.   :P    Fizdale wants a more switch happy defense that requires more disciplined and versatile defenders.  Our defense should not fall off a cliff due to one perimeter defender missing.  Besides the team D was pretty good when Tony and Zbo were in streetclothes this past season. 

They had the CORE4 the entire time last season and season before that and we weren't 50 win teams.  You have to keep in mind nobody kept the CORE4 off the court but themselves (injuries).   That wasn't going to change as they got older.  

 

No i am proposing starting Parsons if he is healthy.  Tyreke is a good player so i dont understand your criticizing of him.  BenMac should at very least be able to provide same ppg as Tony with added bonus of floor spacing.   Conley finally has help so why would he run out of gas when we have Reke, Harrison, and potentially Chalmers backing him up?    I predict Conley takes it up another notch this season and gets in AllStar discussion even in this newer more crowded West. 

I will agree that losing Tony and Zbo will affect the toughness of the team and maybe even respect from other vet players.   Their loss will be felt in with the intangibles.   They will not be missed very much if at all when it comes to offense, defense, and wins/losses.  

Maybe not overall but I still say Zbo and TA had the ability to play at a higher level down the stretch of the Grizzlies many close games. They got tenacious.  That part will be missed as well.

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Michael D    0

I get the dire predictions I guess...to a degree.

Heck Parsons is not instilling any faith that he will return from injury so far.  I still think the team can sneak into the playoffs though with a somewhat productive Parsons.  He can't be like he was last year but they actually have some other scorers besides Zach, Mike, and Gasol now.

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Herodotus    0

Something that seems to be consistently overlooked on this board (and in Memphis in general) is how putrid of a defender Zach Randolph is. He was never good, and he was probably never even average, but he's at a point in his career now where he's not even passable. Gregg Popovich beat the Grizzlies in the Playoffs by reverting to a strategy of attacking our weakest link on every single play until Fizz relented. I don't know if it was Fizdale's stubbornness or Zach's, but a refusal to take Zach out of the game to stop the bleeding defensively was an insurmountable weakness. Zach just isn't capable of being offensively potent enough to overcome his inability to defend anything, much less a Spurs pick-and-roll. So, a focus on Zach's scoring is really myopic, because Zach bleeds points on the defensive end. The Grizzlies front office has more than made up for Zach's scoring this offseason. 

The REAL concern, as many have pointed out, is the defensive rebounding. Our roster as-is, even if JaMychal comes back, is going to be terrible on the boards. Deyonta Davis has the physical tools to fill this role and make a nice career for himself, if only he was brighter and had more "dog" in him, but he's looking more and more like a mini-Thabeet (e.g., all the physical tools, none of the brains). Brandan Wright was a terrible signing from Day-1 and it would be a miracle if he could block shots and rebound at an above-average level. And then, there's no one. Jarell Martin? Ivan Rabb? We're just really, really thin down low. They've really got to figure out how to get another contributor at the PF/C position. 

 

 

 

 

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Iron Mike    0
11 hours ago, Herodotus said:

Something that seems to be consistently overlooked on this board (and in Memphis in general) is how putrid of a defender Zach Randolph is. He was never good, and he was probably never even average, but he's at a point in his career now where he's not even passable. Gregg Popovich beat the Grizzlies in the Playoffs by reverting to a strategy of attacking our weakest link on every single play until Fizz relented. I don't know if it was Fizdale's stubbornness or Zach's, but a refusal to take Zach out of the game to stop the bleeding defensively was an insurmountable weakness. Zach just isn't capable of being offensively potent enough to overcome his inability to defend anything, much less a Spurs pick-and-roll. So, a focus on Zach's scoring is really myopic, because Zach bleeds points on the defensive end. The Grizzlies front office has more than made up for Zach's scoring this offseason. 

The REAL concern, as many have pointed out, is the defensive rebounding. Our roster as-is, even if JaMychal comes back, is going to be terrible on the boards. Deyonta Davis has the physical tools to fill this role and make a nice career for himself, if only he was brighter and had more "dog" in him, but he's looking more and more like a mini-Thabeet (e.g., all the physical tools, none of the brains). Brandan Wright was a terrible signing from Day-1 and it would be a miracle if he could block shots and rebound at an above-average level. And then, there's no one. Jarell Martin? Ivan Rabb? We're just really, really thin down low. They've really got to figure out how to get another contributor at the PF/C position. 

 

 

 

 

Preach. The love for Z-Bo is too much. Dude hasn't been effective since 2011

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4 hours ago, Iron Mike said:

Preach. The love for Z-Bo is too much. Dude hasn't been effective since 2011

I wouldn't go that far.  He was pretty good in 2013 but he has been on a steady offensive decline for years.   However, his defensive drop off has been even more dramatic. 

I do hate that his playing style is so distinct that it made it impossible to keep him.   He deserved to be able to retire a Grizz.  

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Being generous, zbos defense cancels out his offense. And his offense wasn't even that great. He definitely had a few games where he carried us . . . but there were a lot of buckets given up because of slow rotations

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chipc3    0
12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I wouldn't go that far.  He was pretty good in 2013 but he has been on a steady offensive decline for years.   However, his defensive drop off has been even more dramatic. 

I do hate that his playing style is so distinct that it made it impossible to keep him.   He deserved to be able to retire a Grizz.  

His defensive issues were exposed by Fizdale attempting to play him at center. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

His defensive issues were exposed by Fizdale attempting to play him at center. 

No they were exposed by Greg Popovich years earlier by putting him in multiple PickNRolls.    Some people are forgetting that the reason Joerger started Jeff Green over Zbo was due to defense.    Playing him at center didn't help anything but that wasn't when it was first exposed. 

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chipc3    0
Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

No they were exposed by Greg Popovich years earlier by putting him in multiple PickNRolls.    Some people are forgetting that the reason Joerger started Jeff Green over Zbo was due to defense.    Playing him at center didn't help anything but that wasn't when it was first exposed. 

I never said first. I said "His defensive issues were exposed by Fizdale attempting to play him at center." This was a different role for Z-Bo and one he was poorly suited for. Z-Bo is a poor defensive PF. He is a terrible defensive center and Fizdale was responsible for that mess. 

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Herodotus    0
3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

His defensive issues were exposed by Fizdale attempting to play him at center. 

Sorry, but that logic is upside down. ZBO's lack of mobility, particularly laterally, and his lack of lift, left him out to dry on the pick-and-roll/pop, pretty much no matter who he was guarding. The "position" he was played at really had nothing to do with it, but, if anything, it should have theoretically been easier for him to defend against a player like Dedmon or even David Lee (who worked Zach over in limited minutes) than LaMarcus Aldridge or Pau, who have effective pick-and-pop and stretch offense. What would happen almost every time, though, is that the Spurs were going for the switch or that moment in-between the switch, and once Tony Parker, or whomever the guard was, was starting down Zach, the play was over - Zach was in no-man's land, on the retreat, and either Tony Parker was going to get whatever shot he wanted, or he was going to hit Dedmon, or Lee, or whomever for a rim-run that Zach was completely powerless to even affect. It wasn't just the Spurs starters who did this to Zach, it was their second unit guys too - Patty Mills, Ginobili, even Simmons. They would all just line Zach up in their sights. 

 

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5 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I never said first. I said "His defensive issues were exposed by Fizdale attempting to play him at center." This was a different role for Z-Bo and one he was poorly suited for. Z-Bo is a poor defensive PF. He is a terrible defensive center and Fizdale was responsible for that mess. 

Fizdale wasn't responsible for that - Brand Wright was.   Remember the idea was for BW to backup Marc but Mr Glass was never healthy so that didn't materialize till end of the year.   

His defensive issues were exposed  Magnified by Fizdale attempting to play him at center.

 Bottomline is that in reality his offensive production was pretty much negated by his defensive woes last few seasons.   Marc was incapable of covering for him and that's what really signaled the need to move on from zbo. 

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