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6 minutes ago, Michael D said:

Dude, don't you remember the "Nasty Nine"???  Z-Bo was out for his mother's passing, Conley broke his back, Parsons was well...Parsons, and they pretty much only had Gasol and a bunch of other guys.  I think even Vince missed a few games.  Heck even Ennis went down.

I get if you are saying he's not vastly better than Joerger, that's cool and your perogative but come on.  Fizdale is a decent coach.  One year in and he's proven that.  That Nasty Nine had a winning record, they were like 13-8 in December.

Not knocking Joerger, because he's a good X's and O's coach but his team built up a good record and was challenging for the 4th and 5th seed until the wheels fell off.  When the scrubs had to be called in the Grizzlies started losing and barely eeked into the 8th spot.  He held it down and they stayed as competitive as they could be with replacements but they sucked for that 3rd of the season without Gasol and the rest of the main guys.

Basically what I'm saying is Fizdale's Nasty Nine pulled out a winning record.  They kind of played with more hearts and guts than the team did when the injured guys returned.  No drama and giving up from guys like Gasol and Allen.

Joerger's rejects had a losing record that would have cost the Grizzlies the playoffs if the bottom half of the Western Conference didn't suck so bad that year.

It's a player's league.  Coaches can set the tone and culture of the team, but they aren't as important as college coaches.  You get to see how really good they are when they are working with rejects and younger players that don't hold any sway or control within the team.  Joerger did as good as could have been expected with the disaster of a roster he had due to injuries.  He did a good job.  Fizdale kind of exceeded expectations when his team was able to keep winning without Conley (back), Vince Carter (hip), Chandler Parsons (knee), James Ennis (calf) and Brandan Wright (ankle). Zach Randolph.  If Fizdale's squad broke even it would have been seen as a success.  They won.

That's the closest you can get to a comparison of Joerger and Fizdale's career performance.  Granted the wheels didn't completely fall off but when the **** hit the fan, one coach did a decent job and the other coach exceeded expectation.

Boom!   + 100

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SC Grizz    0
5 minutes ago, Michael D said:

Dude, don't you remember the "Nasty Nine"???  Z-Bo was out for his mother's passing, Conley broke his back, Parsons was well...Parsons, and they pretty much only had Gasol and a bunch of other guys.  I think even Vince missed a few games.  Heck even Ennis went down.

I get if you are saying he's not vastly better than Joerger, that's cool and your perogative but come on.  Fizdale is a decent coach.  One year in and he's proven that.  That Nasty Nine had a winning record, they were like 13-8 in December.

Not knocking Joerger, because he's a good X's and O's coach but his team built up a good record and was challenging for the 4th and 5th seed until the wheels fell off.  When the scrubs had to be called in the Grizzlies started losing and barely eeked into the 8th spot.  He held it down and they stayed as competitive as they could be with replacements but they sucked for that 3rd of the season without Gasol and the rest of the main guys.

Basically what I'm saying is Fizdale's Nasty Nine pulled out a winning record.  They kind of played with more hearts and guts than the team did when the injured guys returned.  No drama and giving up from guys like Gasol and Allen.

Joerger's rejects had a losing record that would have cost the Grizzlies the playoffs if the bottom half of the Western Conference didn't suck so bad that year.

It's a player's league.  Coaches can set the tone and culture of the team, but they aren't as important as college coaches.  You get to see how really good they are when they are working with rejects and younger players that don't hold any sway or control within the team.  Joerger did as good as could have been expected with the disaster of a roster he had due to injuries.  He did a good job.  Fizdale kind of exceeded expectations when his team was able to keep winning without Conley (back), Vince Carter (hip), Chandler Parsons (knee), James Ennis (calf) and Brandan Wright (ankle). Zach Randolph.  If Fizdale's squad broke even it would have been seen as a success.  They won.

That's the closest you can get to a comparison of Joerger and Fizdale's career performance.  Granted the wheels didn't completely fall off but when the **** hit the fan, one coach did a decent job and the other coach exceeded expectation.

Good post. 

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chipc3    0

I never said Fizdale wasn't a good coach. However, his team was 43-39 last season which was 1 game better than Joerger did the season before without Conley and Gasol for a lot longer than Fizdale went without Z-Bo and Conley. The team was 13-8 in December but the Nasty Nine wasn't the entire month of December. And who decided to start Chandler Parsons anyway? Isn't that a coaching issue? 

I remember when Joerger beat Cleveland with only 8 players too. That didn't make him a super coach in people's eyes. 

Most importantly I was being very sarcastic in the post. Of course it matters that the team doesn't have a clear cut starting PF and SG. It clearly matters that the team doesn't have a solid backup PG and C. These are important issues to the team and pretending they don't matter because Fizdale is our coach is clearly meant to be a joke. 

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Michael D    0
14 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I never said Fizdale wasn't a good coach. However, his team was 43-39 last season which was 1 game better than Joerger did the season before without Conley and Gasol for a lot longer than Fizdale went without Z-Bo and Conley. The team was 13-8 in December but the Nasty Nine wasn't the entire month of December. And who decided to start Chandler Parsons anyway? Isn't that a coaching issue? 

I remember when Joerger beat Cleveland with only 8 players too. That didn't make him a super coach in people's eyes. 

Most importantly I was being very sarcastic in the post. Of course it matters that the team doesn't have a clear cut starting PF and SG. It clearly matters that the team doesn't have a solid backup PG and C. These are important issues to the team and pretending they don't matter because Fizdale is our coach is clearly meant to be a joke. 

I hear you. About the starting Parsons thing, lineups are obviously on the coach BUT when the GM goes out and spends 90+ million on a guy who isn't ready to play there is probably added pressure on the coach, whom the GM hired, to play his guy.  I'm sure Fizdale saw the problems starting Chandler Parsons was causing in the locker room BUT he could tow the row and keep his job or talk **** about the FO like Joerger did and wind up crying at the end of the season press conference (in other words auditioning for a new job).  Joerger knew he was on his way out for sticking to his guns.

That Parsons thing falls back on Wallace.  They tell those athletes that the team is better off with them playing injured at 30-40% ability than they are with them resting and recovering.  Wallace didn't want to look stupid, it was bad enough that Parsons wasn't available at the beginning of the season.  He was trying to save face.  Then at the end of the season the story was that they knew signing Parsons would take a season or two before he would be ready.  Wallace kind of screwed up.

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chipc3    0
1 minute ago, Michael D said:

I hear you. About the starting Parsons thing, lineups are obviously on the coach BUT when the GM goes out and spends 90+ million on a guy who isn't ready to play there is probably added pressure on the coach, whom the GM hired, to play his guy.  I'm sure Fizdale saw the problems starting Chandler Parsons was causing in the locker room BUT he could tow the row and keep his job or talk **** about the FO like Joerger did and wind up crying at the end of the season press conference (in other words auditioning for a new job).  Joerger knew he was on his way out for sticking to his guns.

That Parsons thing falls back on Wallace.  They tell those athletes that the team is better off with them playing injured at 30-40% ability than they are with them resting and recovering.  Wallace didn't want to look stupid, it was bad enough that Parsons wasn't available at the beginning of the season.  He was trying to save face.  Then at the end of the season the story was that they knew signing Parsons would take a season or two before he would be ready.  Wallace kind of screwed up.

I think we are in agreement but I am confused about one thing. Are you saying Joerger, who stuck to his guns, was somehow better as a coach than Fizdale when he "could tow the row" and start Parsons despite it hurting the team?

Personally I feel Joerger was under the gun immediately after he became coach. There were stories, I don't know if they were true or not, that Pera wanted to fire Joerger two weeks in. He replaced the most successful coach in franchise history. The GM who hired him was fired after his first season and the GM who was there when Hollins was hired took his place. There was a bad relationship between them from the start. 

Like I said before, you completely missed my satire in the OP. I wasn't being critical of Fizdale. I was making fun of people's attitude that having major holes in the lineup currently won't matter because we have Fizdale. As you said yourself, it's a player's league and if you don't have the players a coach won't make a big difference. I guess I did a poor job of making that clear. 

The bottom line we both agree on. Players make the team and right now the team has a bunch of question marks on the roster. I hope everything works out for the best. I'm just concerned. 

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Michael D    0
1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

I think we are in agreement but I am confused about one thing. Are you saying Joerger, who stuck to his guns, was somehow better as a coach than Fizdale when he "could tow the row" and start Parsons despite it hurting the team?

Personally I feel Joerger was under the gun immediately after he became coach. There were stories, I don't know if they were true or not, that Pera wanted to fire Joerger two weeks in. He replaced the most successful coach in franchise history. The GM who hired him was fired after his first season and the GM who was there when Hollins was hired took his place. There was a bad relationship between them from the start. 

Like I said before, you completely missed my satire in the OP. I wasn't being critical of Fizdale. I was making fun of people's attitude that having major holes in the lineup currently won't matter because we have Fizdale. As you said yourself, it's a player's league and if you don't have the players a coach won't make a big difference. I guess I did a poor job of making that clear. 

The bottom line we both agree on. Players make the team and right now the team has a bunch of question marks on the roster. I hope everything works out for the best. I'm just concerned. 

I did not know that you were being sarcastic until you pointed it out earlier.  I probably haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so I didn't know that you were making light of the attitude many on the forum have.

Overall (given the small sample size) I think they are both good coaches, if you look at their careers up until this point. 

I don't think that it's completely Fizdale's fault about keeping Parsons in the lineup.  First time head coach, he pretty much had to do what Wallace wanted.  Playing him to save face.  Let the GM tell you to pull the plug on Parsons starting, so it looks like it was his idea.  Even though that meant that the locker room environment was probably toxic by that point.  What else could he do, say screw this job?  Take a look at Fizdale's beautiful wife https://twitter.com/natasha_sen. There's no way I'd quit or even act like I had a problem with management if it meant possibly bringing financial hardship into her life and losing her.

I don't think Fizdale would have had any leeway coming into that situation.  If Wallace was the reason he kept Parsons in the lineup he couldn't tell.  Can't put the GM on blast and make Wallace the bad guy in public.  He would just have to take the blame for it as the head coach.

Both Fizdale and Joerger (along with every other head coach in the NBA) walked into a situation filled with drama and uncertainty.  That is why the head coach is paid millions per year.  They have to suck it up and deal with it.  Joerger could flex his own weight a little more after his first two seasons because he won more than 50 games, and as you said, he sensed he was on the way out anyways once Levien was fired.  Its not like Joerger had bigger balls than Fizdale because it's a lot easier to talk trash if you know you are going to be replaced no matter what you do.

Who knows maybe Fizdale will be in a similar situation after three years here also (hopefully not).  It sucks that the front office drama trickles down to the team and affects their gameplay and ability to win.  Look at the fiasco in Chicago, where the management wanted Tibs out in favor of Fred Hoiberg.  Hoiberg up until this point has had troubling gaining the respect of the team.

I agree with you, I am a little concerned too.  I hope this thing with Parsons starts to work out this season.  I'm not as optimistic as I was last fall.  I have a feeling he won't be ready by the season opener again.  I don't think there's really that many holes in the lineup outside of Parsons though because its looking more and more likely that JAM resigns with us.  I don't like heading into the year with always injured BWright at PF/C but he still, somehow, has value around the league and can be traded.  And, although its not likely, maybe Wallace's Wright signing will pay off and he'll have the only healthy season of his career this year, but mainly he has value as trade bait since nobody wants our young players.

I don't see the pressing need to get a backup point guard now that we've gotten Tyreke.  And although I'd rather have a healthy Parsons at SF we finally have other options that will not hurt the team if he's out.  The wing positions are actually looking good now.

Overall I think Wallace has had a good run but he should be under the microscope this next season and probably replaced if this team does not exceed the borderline playoff team expectations most have for it.  He's made mistakes but he's also done a good job for this team in the past.  Maybe he should have went for an Allen Crabbe type player instead of Parsons, given his injury history.  If the team isn't blessed with good luck this year he should be fired for crippling the franchise.  His swing for the fences philosophy demands that type of action when he misses because he whiffs big time and we can't afford to waste the primes of our max guys.  Parsons, it turns out was a HUGE gamble and the entire season one of it was trash and bad for the team's morale.  I bet Parsons would have to come back big time and become a borderline all-star in order for Wallace to keep his job.

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chipc3    0

I think most people who are qualified enough to get hired as a head coach are capable enough to be a head coach. There are very few who have reached this level only to be discovered to be unqualified (Iavaroni was one). Likewise there aren't that many coaches who have made a noticeable difference in the talent of their teams. Pops is one of the exceptions. Players who have come to San Antonio played at a higher level there than before arriving and after leaving.

I hope one day people consider Fizdale to be that type of coach. So far he hasn't had a long enough track record to say one way or the other.  

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5 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I think most people who are qualified enough to get hired as a head coach are capable enough to be a head coach. There are very few who have reached this level only to be discovered to be unqualified (Iavaroni was one). Likewise there aren't that many coaches who have made a noticeable difference in the talent of their teams. Pops is one of the exceptions. Players who have come to San Antonio played at a higher level there than before or after arriving.

I hope one day people consider Fizdale to be that type of coach. So far he hasn't had a long enough track record to say one way or the other.  

The only reason people like fizdale so much is that he isn't Hollins, or Hollins protégé joerger.

Just like why people were idiot enough to vote for Donald Trump. They were sick of the calm collected Obama, so they elected a senile maniac.

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Michael D    0
5 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The only reason people like fizdale so much is that he isn't Hollins, or Hollins protégé joerger.

Just like why people were idiot enough to vote for Donald Trump. They were sick of the calm collected Obama, so they elected a senile maniac.

:lol::lol:

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chipc3    0
5 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The only reason people like fizdale so much is that he isn't Hollins, or Hollins protégé joerger.

Just like why people were idiot enough to vote for Donald Trump. They were sick of the calm collected Obama, so they elected a senile maniac.

Joerger was Hollins protege just like Brutus was Caeser's protege! 

5e8f2637808a9ec70143328793588f76.jpg

This is meant to cause a laugh and should not be taken too seriously. 

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5 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The only reason people like fizdale so much is that he isn't Hollins, or Hollins protégé joerger.

Just like why people were idiot enough to vote for Donald Trump. They were sick of the calm collected Obama, so they elected a senile maniac.

Holy Bejeezus el the Cristo...i think lighting just struck an old lady in the bootyhole. I never thought I would live to see the day where I agree with KBM but anyway, enough with the political talk guys like talk el deportes.

I do agree that people like Fizz because he has no ties to the Hollins regime. I wasn't that impressed with Fizz at times last year. He clearly had his favorites (as most coaches do) and I think it disturbed our groove (well whatever groove we had with all of the injuries)

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Joerger was Hollins protege just like Brutus was Caeser's protege! 

5e8f2637808a9ec70143328793588f76.jpg

This is meant to cause a laugh and should not be taken too seriously. 

That's actually very true. I still remember when Peter Vescey tweeted in like January that Joerger met with Levien in the parking lot of FEF and agreed to take over the team. People didn't believe him, well a WC Finals appearance and a few months later. It came true.

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chipc3    0
1 minute ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

That's actually very true. I still remember when Peter Vescey tweeted in like January that Joerger met with Levien in the parking lot of FEF and agreed to take over the team. People didn't believe him, well a WC Finals appearance and a few months later. It came true.

I remember that tweet too although I'm not sure it was Vescey. Doesn't really matter anyway and my memory is fading as I age. 

I also remember Hollins going on the radio and blasting Levien so that he had to be let go. 

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Michael D    0
4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I remember that tweet too although I'm not sure it was Vescey. Doesn't really matter anyway and my memory is fading as I age. 

I also remember Hollins going on the radio and blasting Levien so that he had to be let go. 

Yeah, Hollins kind of stabbed himself in the back when he made his champagne tastes on a beer budget remark on TV.  He said a lot of Joerger like comments about the front office to the media.  He wanted to get fired.

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Paladin    0

Do you think Diaw would help?  He played center successfully, but he was considerably younger when he did it well.  He does have an outside shot, and he is a good passer.  Initially, he played guard because of his passing.

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1 hour ago, Michael D said:

Yeah, Hollins kind of stabbed himself in the back when he made his champagne tastes on a beer budget remark on TV.  He said a lot of Joerger like comments about the front office to the media.  He wanted to get fired.

Was he lying? It's sad that telling the truth can get you fired.

Also, him not wanting to brownnose and kiss Leviens's butt contributed to his contract not being renewed.

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2 hours ago, Michael D said:

Yeah, Hollins kind of stabbed himself in the back when he made his champagne tastes on a beer budget remark on TV.  He said a lot of Joerger like comments about the front office to the media.  He wanted to get fired.

Hollins was going to get fired regardless of what he said. Lets not pretend that the front office was so hurt over his statement that they were forced to fire him.

Hollins was underappreciated, and even when he went to Brooklyn, those guys were losers, especially Brook Lopez.

If you give Hollins time he will turn you into a basketball player.

People always talk about how great fizz is at development. Nobody ever talks about Hollins. The guy makes all his players minus mayo better.

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3 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

LeBron,:)

Yeah I guess you're right. That guy was another Been McLemore before going to Miami.😄

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1 minute ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Yeah I guess you're right. That guy was another Been McLemore before going to Miami.😄

Im going to tell you something the teams that didn't draft Lonzo Ball are idiots.

The best prospect I've seen since the brow

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Michael D    0
34 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

Was he lying? It's sad that telling the truth can get you fired.

Also, him not wanting to brownnose and kiss Leviens's butt contributed to his contract not being renewed.

Facts, but that is one of the downsides to moving up and being successful in the corporate road.  You have a lot of people that are ruthless, sneaky, and will do anything to get what they want.  Hollins probably is good financially, so he would be the wrong person to expect to kiss your *** just because you have a job title over him.

I respect him for it, but outing stuff like that to the public instead of presenting a unified front makes everyone look dysfunctional and incompetent.

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2 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Im going to tell you something the teams that didn't draft Lonzo Ball are idiots.

The best prospect I've seen since the brow

Looks good in SL. I'll be interested in seeing how often he can get that shot off against the bug boys.

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Michael D    0
24 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Hollins was going to get fired regardless of what he said. Lets not pretend that the front office was so hurt over his statement that they were forced to fire him.

Hollins was underappreciated, and even when he went to Brooklyn, those guys were losers, especially Brook Lopez.

If you give Hollins time he will turn you into a basketball player.

People always talk about how great fizz is at development. Nobody ever talks about Hollins. The guy make all his players minus mayo better.

True. I respect him and I'm glad he went his own way.  The only way Hollins and Memphis could have worked out was if they made him Coach/GM like a Popovich type of position.  Hollins was already a made man, so he would have had trouble working under people that he did not feel were up to the job.  There was no way they were going to give him that much power over the organization.

But only time will tell if Fizdale can develop these guys.  They say he was great at it in Miami.  His role is different now because he's the head coach and in control of playing time and by default how much a player can potentially earn in salary.  He has to be the bad guy instead of an assistant coach that can buddy up with the players.

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