Kevin B Moses

With the #35 pick, Memphis Selects Ivan Rabb

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cdp    0
 
@MarcJSpearsESPN
Cavs thought they had deal for 34th from Kings to draft Cal's Ivan Rabb, source said but it stalled at deadline.Terms were already agreed to
 
Guess the Cavs felt the same way as Walllace bout this guy.

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2 hours ago, cdp said:
 
@MarcJSpearsESPN  
Cavs thought they had deal for 34th from Kings to draft Cal's Ivan Rabb, source said but it stalled at deadline.Terms were already agreed to
 
Guess the Cavs felt the same way as Walllace bout this guy.

Cavs are not one of the best scouting teams either, if it was the Spurs then I would be more confident

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SC Grizz    0
20 hours ago, tennesseessio said:

I didn't like Rabb on initial viewing b/c I didn't think he had traits to be all-round player. After examining him more closely I think he can be an effective bench player. One thing we know he can do is rebound. He did it very well in NCAA, and boardwork translates. If he can do that one thing and grow his game out from there, he can be good enough to get on the floor as a rotational big.

He already has some semblance of a post game, but it isn't really all that effective or consistent. That's a negative that doesn't really matter all that much. I doubt he'll be used as a post scorer very often. All he really needs to be effective is a good mid-range jumper off pnr, and a respectable 3pt. shot would be a plus. He needs to get more consistent, but he's pretty much got those things already. Hit the J and control the boards, and congrats you have yourself a reason to exist in the NBA. I don't see him ever being good on D. He doesn't have the agility to control pnr or track or play closeouts. Strangely he is not a good shot blocker despite his physical profile. On the bright side he is right-sized w/ length so he should be able to guard the post after bulking up 10lbs or so. He changes ends well. Don't forget defensive rebounding is a part of defense if not the biggest part and he excels at that.

So basically we've got a A- rebounder who can blend in well enough w/ an offense, and isn't a huge liability on D. I'd trade a future 2nd for that. I think people that hate this pick are viewing him as a total player, and not valuing his proficient qualities to where you can see his eventual NBA niche.

To your point, as long as Marc is around we will need proficient rebounding from the PF position. 

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Father Pat    0

I think that in order for Rabb to see significant floor time he needs to fix his broken foul shooting. I read that he has a hitch in it and that's why his FT % isn't that good. Hopefully it becomes an easy fix.

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lsugrizzfan    0
On 6/23/2017 at 9:51 AM, Kevin B Moses said:

Ivan Rabb could be the next Jordan Hill or Brandan Wright as easily as he could be the next dirk. Nobodfy really knows.

Since he has better chance at winning the powerball than becoming dirk, are you saying the odds are that long against him being as good as Jordan Hill or Brandan Wright as well? If so, that is not good to hear.

 

I was disappointed in the pick just because it feels like we always make this pick, the high school star who never amounted to much against the superior competition of the college game., and it has yet to work out for us. That being said, rebounding usually translates well. Rabb was a good rebounder in college. 

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1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Since he has better chance at winning the powerball than becoming dirk, are you saying the odds are that long against him being as good as Jordan Hill or Brandan Wright as well? If so, that is not good to hear.

 

I was disappointed in the pick just because it feels like we always make this pick, the high school star who never amounted to much against the superior competition of the college game., and it has yet to work out for us. That being said, rebounding usually translates well. Rabb was a good rebounder in college. 

Most players that make it to the nba are high school stars, if not all of them.

Obviously if we had higher picks the choices would be better and Wallace would not have to tout a high school record.

What I am saying is that many players come into the league with pedigrees, Jordan Hill came to mind. Does not mean they will develop. You really can't tell.

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lsugrizzfan    0
1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Obviously if we had higher picks the choices would be better and Wallace would not have to tout a high school record.

We had the #2 pick. It was a disaster. I have no confidence in Wallace. Even though everyone understands Thabeet was Heisley's pick, the fact that Wallace couldn't talk some sense into him is just as bad for me.

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Imagine if JaM and Z-Bo leave. We start Rabb. Rabb excels. Bunch of boards. Bunch of dunks. Bunch of blocks. He wins Rookie of the Year. We lose to the Spurs in the first round.

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guillermo    0
43 minutes ago, The Stro Show said:

Imagine if JaM and Z-Bo leave. We start Rabb. Rabb excels. Bunch of boards. Bunch of dunks. Bunch of blocks. He wins Rookie of the Year. We lose to the Spurs in the first round.

 

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4 hours ago, The Stro Show said:

Imagine if JaM and Z-Bo leave. We start Rabb. Rabb excels. Bunch of boards. Bunch of dunks. Bunch of blocks. He wins Rookie of the Year. We lose to the Spurs in the first round.

Get dope out yo veins and put some hope in yo brain

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Ndq0327    0

I'm trying to be optimistic about Rabb I really am but if we don't want him for his post scoring but would like for him to develop a more perimeter  based game why in the hell did we not just take Ojeleye or Bolden?  They were both available and posses the skills everyone thinks Rabb needs to develop. 

 

This is what I was saying leading up to the draft. Just take players who can already do the things you need and just maximize those talents. Instead we take Rabb who needs time to develop these skills when the team is literally 3-4 years away from complete rebuild. 

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45 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

I'm trying to be optimistic about Rabb I really am but if we don't want him for his post scoring but would like for him to develop a more perimeter  based game why in the hell did we not just take Ojeleye or Bolden?  They were both available and posses the skills everyone thinks Rabb needs to develop. 

 

This is what I was saying leading up to the draft. Just take players who can already do the things you need and just maximize those talents. Instead we take Rabb who needs time to develop these skills when the team is literally 3-4 years away from complete rebuild. 

So you are evaluating Rabb against Bolden and Ojeleye based solely on the fact that the later two are stretch players and Rabb is not?

Good grief at the hate for our style of ball.

Here's what I would say: I am not all that infatuated with Ryan Anderson, either. I'd rather have a rebounder than a stretch 4. And Jam Green wasn't that big of a difference maker either, if you want to get right down to it. Jam's only claim to fame was that, at least he ain't zbo. Maybe it allowed Mike to score more out of necessity, because Jam was so inept at it. Other than that, I don't see the value.

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Ndq0327    0
28 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

So you are evaluating Rabb against Bolden and Ojeleye based solely on the fact that the later two are stretch players and Rabb is not?

Good grief at the hate for our style of ball.

Here's what I would say: I am not all that infatuated with Ryan Anderson, either. I'd rather have a rebounder than a stretch 4. And Jam Green wasn't that big of a difference maker either, if you want to get right down to it. Jam's only claim to fame was that, at least he ain't zbo. Maybe it allowed Mike to score more out of necessity, because Jam was so inept at it. Other than that, I don't see the value.

No my evaluation is based on the fact that everyone is asking can Rabb eventually stretch the floor. Gary Parish asked his coach yesterday. And Jason and John asked the guy who recruited him last week. Vernon asked Hollinger on the podcast. So obviously people would like for Rabb to become a stretch 4. I'm not just hating on post up basketball I'm glad he has advanced post moves but I don't hear anyone asking how his post moves will help the Grizz. His rebounding will be a big help however.

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lsugrizzfan    0
1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

So you are evaluating Rabb against Bolden and Ojeleye based solely on the fact that the later two are stretch players and Rabb is not?

Good grief at the hate for our style of ball.

Here's what I would say: I am not all that infatuated with Ryan Anderson, either. I'd rather have a rebounder than a stretch 4. And Jam Green wasn't that big of a difference maker either, if you want to get right down to it. Jam's only claim to fame was that, at least he ain't zbo. Maybe it allowed Mike to score more out of necessity, because Jam was so inept at it. Other than that, I don't see the value.

You say our style of ball as if they are still going to play two guys in the post and pound the inside. I think we saw last year that Fiz wants his bigs shooting threes and forcing the opposing bigs to guard the perimeter, which in turn opens up driving lanes. That is Fiz's style and what this team is trying to move towards. In order to be successful playing that way, it would help to have guys who are capable of playing that way.

However, I am also a fan of bigs that rebound, which is why I have consistently been less appreciative of Marc than most on this board. It's why even though I did not like the Rabb selection, I am hopeful that he can at least carve out a role based on his rebounding.

My selection would have been Jordan Bell. I think he has potential to play the same role as Tristan Thompson (not necessarily as well). The role where the athletic big sets screens and rolls to the basket, then on defense is able to switch on every pick and hold his own. It would not have been the offensive fit for Fiz's system, but he could have been a defensive big men to combat other teams running the same system.

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

I'm trying to be optimistic about Rabb I really am but if we don't want him for his post scoring but would like for him to develop a more perimeter  based game why in the hell did we not just take Ojeleye or Bolden?  They were both available and posses the skills everyone thinks Rabb needs to develop. 

 

This is what I was saying leading up to the draft. Just take players who can already do the things you need and just maximize those talents. Instead we take Rabb who needs time to develop these skills when the team is literally 3-4 years away from complete rebuild. 

But you keep overlooking the fact that we will need a guy that has legit low post scoring ability in 3-4yrs.   Idea is to resign 27yr old JaMyke that already possess skillset you are speaking of.   Martin is another candidate already on roster that already has modern NBA 4 perimeter based game.   Deyonta is more like Deandre Jordan with a better FT stroke on offense.   Brandan Wright another rim runner. 

So if you are a coach/GM wouldn't it make more sense to grab the guy with the slightly different offensive skillset just to diversify your talent?    Its easier to teach Rabb to shoot 3s than it is to teach Deyonta,.JaM or Martin low-post moves. 

Keep in mind its the interviewers that are asking the question about Stretchin the floor and FO is just responding to them.   More than likely Rabb is a move to prepare yourself to move on from Zbo in the near future.   If zbo isn't retained are you comfortable with marc being the only viable low-post option on the team?  

Personally i like the move because it potentially allows us to go traditional if need be to combat the GSW types.   It shows that FO isn't blindly trying to emulate GSW HOU or CAV in order to compete (KBM will be happy).  

 

Potentially within our offense Rabb can become an athletic, lower usage, mobile version of Zbo, which is a low post scoring offensive rebounding threat.    Let JaM, Martin or even Parsons take on the stretch 4 role.   

Rabb is a better gamble is these regard than Jarnell Stokes was. 

 

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11 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

You say our style of ball as if they are still going to play two guys in the post and pound the inside. I think we saw last year that Fiz wants his bigs shooting threes and forcing the opposing bigs to guard the perimeter, which in turn opens up driving lanes. That is Fiz's style and what this team is trying to move towards. In order to be successful playing that way, it would help to have guys who are capable of playing that way.

However, I am also a fan of bigs that rebound, which is why I have consistently been less appreciative of Marc than most on this board. It's why even though I did not like the Rabb selection, I am hopeful that he can at least carve out a role based on his rebounding.

My selection would have been Jordan Bell. I think he has potential to play the same role as Tristan Thompson (not necessarily as well). The role where the athletic big sets screens and rolls to the basket, then on defense is able to switch on every pick and hold his own. It would not have been the offensive fit for Fiz's system, but he could have been a defensive big men to combat other teams running the same system.

My prototypical 4 for this offense would be a better rebounding serge ibaka. An athletic big with length that can really guard who is not inept on offense. There aren't many guys out there like that.

My hope is that rabb can become kosta koufos.

 

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3 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

You say our style of ball as if they are still going to play two guys in the post and pound the inside. I think we saw last year that Fiz wants his bigs shooting threes and forcing the opposing bigs to guard the perimeter, which in turn opens up driving lanes. That is Fiz's style and what this team is trying to move towards. In order to be successful playing that way, it would help to have guys who are capable of playing that way.

However, I am also a fan of bigs that rebound, which is why I have consistently been less appreciative of Marc than most on this board. It's why even though I did not like the Rabb selection, I am hopeful that he can at least carve out a role based on his rebounding.

My selection would have been Jordan Bell. I think he has potential to play the same role as Tristan Thompson (not necessarily as well). The role where the athletic big sets screens and rolls to the basket, then on defense is able to switch on every pick and hold his own. It would not have been the offensive fit for Fiz's system, but he could have been a defensive big men to combat other teams running the same system.

Excellent observations but Davis can already fill that role as the 4/5.   I think fans are inadvertently overlooking DD when evaluating skillsets. 

Fizz likes playing 1in-4out offense which we have the personnel, to do outside of Zbo.   Remember that Marc, Jarrell, and JaMyke can all play on the perimeter comfortably; while Davis and Rabb are better in the paint.  

I also believe the only guy that probably will never really become an outside threat is Davis.  Rabb has already shown he can hit 3s in college.  

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chipc3    0

I see how Rabb and Gasol would fit well together but does anyone see Rabb pairing well with Martin, Davis or Wright? 

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pjoe    0

Good rebounding fills a need (we are not rebounding as good as we did a few years ago).  Good hands ... rebounds out of his area.

2nd rounders need a niche to make a team and get time to develop / round-out their game.  He has as much of a chance as most 2nd rounders.

Give him a chance.

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lsugrizzfan    0
1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Excellent observations but Davis can already fill that role as the 4/5.   I think fans are inadvertently overlooking DD when evaluating skillsets. 

Fizz likes playing 1in-4out offense which we have the personnel, to do outside of Zbo.   Remember that Marc, Jarrell, and JaMyke can all play on the perimeter comfortably; while Davis and Rabb are better in the paint.  

I also believe the only guy that probably will never really become an outside threat is Davis.  Rabb has already shown he can hit 3s in college.  

I haven't seen enough of Davis to just think he can switch on anyone. Of course, no one has ever seen Bell do it on the NBA level either. I do hope that Davis can become that. But if he does, that doesn't mean we no longer need others capable of the same.

I have never seen Rabb play. His rebounding numbers are excellent. I am just nervous about a guy whose stock has gone down every year.

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Dark-Child    0
21 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I see how Rabb and Gasol would fit well together but does anyone see Rabb pairing well with Martin, Davis or Wright? 

I think this is the actual question that must be asked.  The question is not so much that Ivan Rabb was selected BUT that the front office thought we needed yet another PF when you have 3 currently under contract and (2) in free agency.  The Brooklyn pick was not gold but it was extremely valuable and to not draft a position of need with the pick is very telling.  Wallace may say publicly that the draft has nothing to do with the moves in free agency but it is highly unlikely that both ZBo and J. Green if either return. Maybe some combination of Wright and Martin will be moved to make room but it would still have limited minutes available for player development if both or one of the two returns. Hence the question is WHY A PF?  The who that was selected IMO is incidental. 

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chipc3    0
37 minutes ago, Dark-Child said:

I think this is the actual question that must be asked.  The question is not so much that Ivan Rabb was selected BUT that the front office thought we needed yet another PF when you have 3 currently under contract and (2) in free agency.  The Brooklyn pick was not gold but it was extremely valuable and to not draft a position of need with the pick is very telling.  Wallace may say publicly that the draft has nothing to do with the moves in free agency but it is highly unlikely that both ZBo and J. Green if either return. Maybe some combination of Wright and Martin will be moved to make room but it would still have limited minutes available for player development if both or one of the two returns. Hence the question is WHY A PF?  The who that was selected IMO is incidental. 

In my opinion the team is looking at Rabb, at least initially, as a center in a small ball lineup. He can stretch the court somewhat (he did shoot nearly 41% from the arc in college albeit in limited attempts) and his rebounding would be extremely valuable.

Now that I have defended Rabb all I am willing to do, remember that Wallace has always said that the draft is the best place to find talent. You use trades and free agency to fill needs but you always draft strictly for talent. I don't have a problem with drafting Rabb if he is the best talent on the board. I don't know enough to say one way or the other if he is but clearly the Grizzlies felt he was. 

Now back to my original question. If Rabb can stretch centers away from the basket who do you believe would pair best with him? Davis and Rabb don't seem to work since Davis will keep bigs near the basket. JaMychal would be a good partner but he's a free agent so there is that issue. Does Rabb have a good enough outside game to clear space for Z-Bo if he comes back? Does he help Brandan Wright be more effective by clearing space for him to operate near the basket? 

It's not that Rabb himself is the problem as much as the team has too many players who can't stretch the court at all in Davis, Wright and Z-Bo if he returns. Will Rabb be able to create space inside for the returning bigs? 

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