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Kevin B Moses

I think Lebron might come after Marc Gasol

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Standing pat means we will be in the lottery. 

I hope they bring everyone back. This will finally kill this era in Memphis. I just hope they don't let Chris Wallace make any mistake that extends beyond Parson's contract.

Heck, I'd take on Deng or Mozgov for DeAngelo Russell.

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Surely we can move on from one or the other (TA or Zbo) with out this huge gloom and doom drop off you guys are expecting. IMO we would not see a considerable drop off if replacing TA with an average NBA SG. 

I am pretty sure we can not even afford to resign JaM, Zbo and TA, right? Just looking for clarification.

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1 hour ago, SC Grizz said:

Surely we can move on from one or the other (TA or Zbo) with out this huge gloom and doom drop off you guys are expecting. IMO we would not see a considerable drop off if replacing TA with an average NBA SG. 

I am pretty sure we can not even afford to resign JaM, Zbo and TA, right? Just looking for clarification.

I dont think it will be a drop off. I just dont think the current crop of replacement young players we are looking to develop will improve the team much now or improve the teams future outlook.

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5 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Standing pat means we will be in the lottery. 

I hope they bring everyone back. This will finally kill this era in Memphis. I just hope they don't let Chris Wallace make any mistake that extends beyond Parson's contract.

Heck, I'd take on Deng or Mozgov for DeAngelo Russell.

Agreed, and I was thinking something similar about Russell, though I guess it would take giving Marc to get it done, not real keen on that but teams change and deals are made.  I just don't actively advocate trading or waiving anyone.  Seems like bad karma...

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10 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Standing pat means we will be in the lottery. 

I hope they bring everyone back. This will finally kill this era in Memphis. I just hope they don't let Chris Wallace make any mistake that extends beyond Parson's contract.

Heck, I'd take on Deng or Mozgov for DeAngelo Russell.

Isn't that what you've been clamoring for to be in the lottery? This should be a celebration day for you. 

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On 6/19/2017 at 3:40 PM, GrizzTigerFan said:

are you two seriously thinking i am saying just go full lineup of nothing but those young guys playing 30 mins a night?  

I am looking at Mike, Marc, Chandler, and JaM (maybe Vince) as being the main vet guys.   Daniels and Ennis now have enough experience where they should no longer be considered among the young rookies.    That's potentially your top 7 experienced guys already in-house.  I have suggested making a move to acquire another vet via a trade (like Shabazz, Johnson, Waiters,Calderon, etc) that can help round out the main rotation.   

Surely, Harrison has improved enough to be considered a contributor next season and Davis should be  moved up to full-time backup for Marc.   Martin, Wade, Seldon, and Rade can continue developing with a real opportunity to carve out a role in the rotation.  Sort of like how Fizz gave Harrison and Wade a chance beginning of the season to see who would emerge. 

Should be a nice mix of players in both rotations that allows the young guys opportunity.

Mike/Harrison/Wade

Selden/Daniels

*Vince*/Ennis/Rade

JaM/Parsons/Martin

Gasol/Davis

* Resign Vince or Add a free agent for MLE and how is this roster any worse than what we had last season?    Healthy Mike and Marc gets us into playoffs and a healthy Chandler Parsons is what gets us past the first round.   Zbo and TA aint changing that dynamic.   Bringing them back is just staying on the treadmill but running it in reverse.   

Getting the talent you want DWash requires moving either Mike or Marc(my vote) but we know that ain't happening.   

How many minutes are you talking about playing Selden, Ennis, Daniels, Vince, JaM and Davis? 

From my limited mind it looks like you are talking about playing Selden and Daniels a combined 48 minutes a night. Vince (who is 40 and free to sign anywhere he wants) and Ennis playing nearly a combined 48 minutes. Personally I don't believe Daniels and Selden are ready for 48 minutes between them. Ennis and Vince haven't shown the ability to play that long. Rade is a complete mystery but didn't impress me with his play in Europe last year. Davis has no offensive game and is foul prone so even expecting him to average 10-15 minutes a night is a gamble. 

I believe Z-Bo won more than a few games for this team last year and Allen was a solid, albeit declining, defensive force. Replacing them with Martin, Parsons (who's never been a FT PF) Daniels and Selden will cost the team games and any drop in production means lottery for the Grizzlies. 

And doesn't it matter who you sign to the MLE? You make it sound like it doesn't but I can't buy into the theory that anyone can be thrown out there and perform at a winning level. 

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48 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

How many minutes are you talking about playing Selden, Ennis, Daniels, Vince, JaM and Davis? 

From my limited mind it looks like you are talking about playing Selden and Daniels a combined 48 minutes a night. Vince (who is 40 and free to sign anywhere he wants) and Ennis playing nearly a combined 48 minutes. Personally I don't believe Daniels and Selden are ready for 48 minutes between them. Ennis and Vince haven't shown the ability to play that long. Rade is a complete mystery but didn't impress me with his play in Europe last year. Davis has no offensive game and is foul prone so even expecting him to average 10-15 minutes a night is a gamble. 

I believe Z-Bo won more than a few games for this team last year and Allen was a solid, albeit declining, defensive force. Replacing them with Martin, Parsons (who's never been a FT PF) Daniels and Selden will cost the team games and any drop in production means lottery for the Grizzlies. 

And doesn't it matter who you sign to the MLE? You make it sound like it doesn't but I can't buy into the theory that anyone can be thrown out there and perform at a winning level. 

I guess you forgot that we won games with Marc + a bunch of rookies and second year guys when Zbo, Mike, and Tony were all hurt.  

Ennis and Daniels aren't rookies and have shown ability to play 30mins a night easily.   Daniels won us as many games last year as Zbo did but casual fans will overlook that fact because his name isn't on any t-shirts.  Same with JaMyke who is about to get  a well earned big payday.  

Actually it does matter a lot who we sign or trade for.  Guys like Lou Williams, Patty Mills, or Pat Beverly instantly improve the team.   Getting or developing a viable backup Point Guard is way more impactful to wins than bringing back Zbo+TA. 

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Actually, by any advanced statistical method I've seen, Daniels won no where close as many games as Randolph. What's more, Daniels needs help to score like that. He needs to be not and have teams not realize he's hot. Once teams start guarding him he's completely ineffective. 

Ennis has shown the ability to play 30 minutes but not on a winning team. Ennis had a 10.6 PER. That is below the league average PER of 15. Sure you can play him 30 minutes a night but he hasn't shown any ability to be effective in that role. 

Since you agree it does matter who the Grizzlies sign at the MLE, do you believe any of the names you mentioned would come to Memphis and do they address the weaknesses of the team you have built? 

Oh and yes, the team won some games with Gasol was the only core 4 member healthy but it wasn't a long stretch of games. By that logic the team could have been national champs two years ago when they beat Cleveland with only 8 healthy bodies. Short runs don't make you successful. Teams make adjustments and shut down what worked and without talented players capable of taking advantage of what the opponent gives you you won't win over an extended time with makeship lineups. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Actually, by any advanced statistical method I've seen, Daniels won no where close as many games as Randolph. What's more, Daniels needs help to score like that. He needs to be not and have teams not realize he's hot. Once teams start guarding him he's completely ineffective. 

Ennis has shown the ability to play 30 minutes but not on a winning team. Ennis had a 10.6 PER. That is below the league average PER of 15. Sure you can play him 30 minutes a night but he hasn't shown any ability to be effective in that role. 

Since you agree it does matter who the Grizzlies sign at the MLE, do you believe any of the names you mentioned would come to Memphis and do they address the weaknesses of the team you have built? 

Oh and yes, the team won some games with Gasol was the only core 4 member healthy but it wasn't a long stretch of games. By that logic the team could have been national champs two years ago when they beat Cleveland with only 8 healthy bodies. Short runs don't make you successful. Teams make adjustments and shut down what worked and without talented players capable of taking advantage of what the opponent gives you you won't win over an extended time with makeship lineups. 

Daniels didn't have as many opportunities but he still met the qualification that you set of "Zbo won more than a few games for this team last year and Allen was a solid"....   

Lou Williams, Pat Beverly, and Patty Mills are not superstars so i don't know why you believe any of them wouldn't come to Memphis.  Especially considering Pat and Lou would be trade transactions. 

At the end of the day our future success is firmly rooted in Mike, Marc + Chandlers Knees.  Its utter nonsense for folks to still be arguing that TA+ Zbo have any real bearings on our success anymore.  They are just role players at this point and should be treated as such.  JaMkye is the more important decision for the future of this franchise over both of them. 

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Given that Gasol isn't probably going anywhere our greatest need remains a slashing wing player to create passing angles and space for him. Wallace failed to address this with his FA signing and I was shocked.

Rade cannot fill this role. I think Martin has tools similar to him.We don't need both players. Daniels hardly saw the court in the San Antonio series. Somehow the Spurs kept a lid on him and defended the rest of the team too.

We don't need role players to fill in around M, M and P, we need  more. 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Daniels didn't have as many opportunities but he still met the qualification that you set of "Zbo won more than a few games for this team last year and Allen was a solid"....   

Lou Williams, Pat Beverly, and Patty Mills are not superstars so i don't know why you believe any of them wouldn't come to Memphis.  Especially considering Pat and Lou would be trade transactions. 

At the end of the day our future success is firmly rooted in Mike, Marc + Chandlers Knees.  Its utter nonsense for folks to still be arguing that TA+ Zbo have any real bearings on our success anymore.  They are just role players at this point and should be treated as such.  JaMkye is the more important decision for the future of this franchise over both of them. 

Let me amend my previous statement then, Z-Bo was among the ten best bench players in the league last season, led the team in rebounds, posted a 18.58 PER and was the Grizzlies 3rd leading scorer. Tony Allen led the team in steals per game and was the 4th leading scorer last season. Allen's PER was a subpar 13.3 but remember that JaM was only a 13.6 . Both Z-Bo and Allen outscored JaMychal in fewer minutes. 

Daniels doesn't come close to reaching those statements. Daniels averaged 17 MPG but only scraped out a 10.48 PER. His 3 highest months in PT he averaged 13.5 PPG (December), 8.2 PPG (April) and 7.5 PPG (March). Daniels didn't play because he was worthless on defense and nearly worthless on offense when teams guarded him not that he wasn't given a chance.

We will have to agree to disagree if you feel Troy Daniels is on a par with Zach Randolph as a player. 

Are you seriously believing that Pat Beverly, Patty Mills or Lou Williams would come to Memphis to come off the bench? Memphis' best FA signings have been players with serious flaws (Parsons, Cardinal, Allen) in their games and usually with a ridiculously large contract as well. Let's try and keep this conversation on the edge of sanity if you will admit the likelihood of Wallace landing any of those names is remote and I will admit he should try never the less. As for trading for them, trade what??? 3 second round picks in the 2018 draft??? 

I believe the team's success is firmly rooted in Gasol, Parsons and Conley's health. Lose one and they are lottery material in my opinion. JaMichael can walk and the team's outcome won't change dramatically downward because JaMychal isn't that good. Losing your best scoring off the bench would be a greater loss than the 4th or 5th option among the starters. 

Having said that, if the team wants to rebuild then by all means jettison Randolph, Allen et al. However, don't try and say the team will be as good next year. It won't be in my humble opinion but I'd love to be proven wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Let me amend my previous statetent then, Z-Bo was among the leading bench players in the league last season. Daniels doesn't come close to reaching that statement. He didn't play because he was worthless on defense and nearly worthless on offense when teams guarded him. We will have to agree to disagree if you feel Troy Daniels is on a par with Zach Randolph as a player.  

Are you seriously believing that Pat Beverly, Patty Mills or Lou Williams would come to Memphis to come off the bench? Memphis' best FA signings have been players with serious flaws (Parsons, Cardinal, Allen) in their games and usually with a ridiculously large contract as well. Let's try and keep this conversation on the edge of sanity if you will admit the likelihood of Wallace landing any of those names is remote and I will admit he should try never the less. 

Our success is firmly rooted in Gasol, Parsons and Conley's health. Lose one and they are lottery material in my opinion. JaMichael can walk and the team's outcome won't change dramatically downward because JaMychal isn't that good however losing scoring off the bench would be a greater loss than the 4th or 5th option among the starters. 

I am not saying that Daniels is on par with Zbo at all i was just pointing out that he had a positive impact on the team just as much as Zbo + TA.  Daniels ability to space the floor was an extremely valuable trait that Fiz acknowledged throughout the season.  I am not a Daniels fanboy but i do see how his production can help the second unit. 

I don't understand why you think Wallace trading for Lou or Beverly is a fantasy.   Wallace has actually pulled off pretty decent trades before so its not out of the realm of possibility for him. Not to mention he has a good relationship with Morey.  Mills isn't some hot commodity and the Spurs are trying to clear salary to make a run at CP3.   

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15 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I am not saying that Daniels is on par with Zbo at all i was just pointing out that he had a positive impact on the team just as much as Zbo + TA.  Daniels ability to space the floor was an extremely valuable trait that Fiz acknowledged throughout the season.  I am not a Daniels fanboy but i do see how his production can help the second unit. 

I don't understand why you think Wallace trading for Lou or Beverly is a fantasy.   Wallace has actually pulled off pretty decent trades before so its not out of the realm of possibility for him. Not to mention he has a good relationship with Morey.  Mills isn't some hot commodity and the Spurs are trying to clear salary to make a run at CP3.   

Is Daniels not on par with Z-Bo and TA or not? First you say he isn't then you state his impact was just as great. It can't be both.

likewise you criticize Fizdale for not using him more then compliment the team on the way they used him. What is it? 

Its all moot now since with the Rabb and Dillon picks Z-Bo and TA are likely gone. Rabb is a space killing rebounder with no game away from the basket. Dillon a combo forward with big play instincts. Dillon wants the ball in crunch time and he can convert those opportunities unlike Allen.

i just wonder how long until people complain about Rabb killing Fizdale's offense. 

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