Kevin B Moses

Jarell Martin, the forgotten grizzly

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12 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You didn't answer my question. Who should Wallace have taken instead of Jarell Martin who you have panned? 

I also believe Brogdon versus Baldwin is exactly the situation I am describing. Brogdon likely won't improve greatly on what we have seen. Baldwin has more physical ability and can improve if he works hard on doing so. The "smarter" pick this season may look laughable later if Baldwin continues to work on improving. 

Of course, no one knows for sure what the future holds. It is possible that Baldwin won't develop but when you are picking late in the 1st round it makes sense to take the player who is younger with the greater upside potential over someone more mature with less upside. 

Yeah but if we were riding on the Core 4 for one-two more seasons, Brogdon could've been the more conservative pick.

But who knows, we're bad at developing rookies.

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12 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

Wallace should have taken Nance Jr., Very obvious

It's very obvious that you are avoiding the John Wall discussion. Like the plague.

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Remember the OJ trade? We looked like geniuses in year 1 when OJ was dropping 30 as a rook. By year 3, nobody wanted to remember we had KLove and traded him for OJ Mayo. Mayo was more "ready" but Love had the greater upside.

The strange thing is, if you'd have had a poll, I think most people would've said OJ had more upside at the time. Point being, it's hard to say who has the most potential in the draft. Strotential<I'll just leave that here

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48 minutes ago, Back2Grizzness said:

Remember the OJ trade? We looked like geniuses in year 1 when OJ was dropping 30 as a rook. By year 3, nobody wanted to remember we had KLove and traded him for OJ Mayo. Mayo was more "ready" but Love had the greater upside.

The strange thing is, if you'd have had a poll, I think most people would've said OJ had more upside at the time. Point being, it's hard to say who has the most potential in the draft. Strotential<I'll just leave that here

I still believe if OJ was allowed to be the combo guard he truly was that he would've panned out as well as KLove did.  Lionel trying to force him into being a traditional SG hampered his progress.   Rick Carlilse had the right idea on how to utilize him but OJ was already damaged goods when he got to him. 

OJ had decent enough size, athleticism, and strength to guard most SG's and PG's today.   He also possessed enough pickNroll ball handling ability and passing to be groomed into a secondary play-maker alongside Mike.   Not to mention the range on his jumpshot as a lethal spot-up shooter and his natural scoring ability.  

I know i have said it before but i will say it again.   It was supremely foolish to let both of our drafted lottery draft wing scorers(OJ and Rudy) go in order to completely center offense around Zbo and interior scoring.     This version of Mike and Marc would be absolutely killer with either OJ or Rudy with them. 

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OJ had other problems that stunted his development which is why he is out of the league.

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4 hours ago, chipc3 said:

You didn't answer my question. Who should Wallace have taken instead of Jarell Martin who you have panned? 

I also believe Brogdon versus Baldwin is exactly the situation I am describing. Brogdon likely won't improve greatly on what we have seen. Baldwin has more physical ability and can improve if he works hard on doing so. The "smarter" pick this season may look laughable later if Baldwin continues to work on improving. 

Of course, no one knows for sure what the future holds. It is possible that Baldwin won't develop but when you are picking late in the 1st round it makes sense to take the player who is younger with the greater upside potential over someone more mature with less upside. 

Sorry I completely  missed you asked a question let me go check his draft..... If we are sticking with the pf position Larry Nance Jr and Jordan Mickey  were both better options. 

 

Now let me say I liked Martin when we picked him and I like him still now.  But my issue is why take a guy that is so behind development  wise when your franchise has no track record of developing anyone. Why not take the guy that can most help now if needed. 

 

Back to Brogdon v Baldwin I understand  Baldwin has the better long term potential but the Grizz needed and need help now.  Lets say they both only have 5 good years Brogdon's 5 are up from and Baldwin's  are later. With this current team id rather have the 5 up front years while the team is still good. 

The team might be trash when Baldwin's    years hit so what do you gain from that.?

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4 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

It's very obvious that you are avoiding the John Wall discussion. Like the plague.

Players have bad games.

Just like when Mike disappeared in Game 1 against the Spurs.

Crazy that you get to talk crap to a player that played one bad game, just like Harden's case.

Start talking if they play bad the whole series, just saying. In fact, checking their playoff stats Mike was the worse among the three LOL

If they did a Marc Gasol and disappear for 2-3 straight games then by all means tell everyone how you're right. lol

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

Sorry I completely  missed you asked a question let me go check his draft..... If we are sticking with the pf position Larry Nance Jr and Jordan Mickey  were both better options. 

 

Now let me say I liked Martin when we picked him and I like him still now.  But my issue is why take a guy that is so behind development  wise when your franchise has no track record of developing anyone. Why not take the guy that can most help now if needed. 

 

Back to Brogdon v Baldwin I understand  Baldwin has the better long term potential but the Grizz needed and need help now.  Lets say they both only have 5 good years Brogdon's 5 are up from and Baldwin's  are later. With this current team id rather have the 5 up front years while the team is still good. 

The team might be trash when Baldwin's    years hit so what do you gain from that.?

That is my number one pet peeve with Grizzly picks in recent years.  They don't develop anyone.  Therefore, when the Grizzlies pick, they more than anyone need to pick guys that can contribute now.  Even if they have low upsides.  Guys that have a chance to get on the court.  You can work on your skills all day, you can practice all day, but it's hard to develop any confidence in what you do without any actual game time.

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Everyone does remember that Jarell basically missed his rookie season (not to mention two spring training camps) with foot issues. That has a lot to do with his lack of development.

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4 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Everyone does remember that Jarell basically missed his rookie season (not to mention two spring training camps) with foot issues. That has a lot to do with his lack of development.

You are missing the point. Its not about Specifically Martin.  Its about the overall  drafting process  and the way the FO has ran this franchise. 

 

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i always thought Holmes looked much better than Martin , i think KBM  made a few post that got me hyped at the thought of moving down for both Lance & Holmes.

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22 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I still believe if OJ was allowed to be the combo guard he truly was that he would've panned out as well as KLove did.  Lionel trying to force him into being a traditional SG hampered his progress.   Rick Carlilse had the right idea on how to utilize him but OJ was already damaged goods when he got to him. 

OJ had decent enough size, athleticism, and strength to guard most SG's and PG's today.   He also possessed enough pickNroll ball handling ability and passing to be groomed into a secondary play-maker alongside Mike.   Not to mention the range on his jumpshot as a lethal spot-up shooter and his natural scoring ability.  

I know i have said it before but i will say it again.   It was supremely foolish to let both of our drafted lottery draft wing scorers(OJ and Rudy) go in order to completely center offense around Zbo and interior scoring.     This version of Mike and Marc would be absolutely killer with either OJ or Rudy with them. 

I absolutely AGREE with all of the above.

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If OJ was damaged goods by the time Carlisle got him, it was because of OJ.

OJ Mayo was an extremely gifted athlete that was quite intelligent.

He ran into problems in HS, college, and the pros.

As much as the Thabeet trade killed much of the future Grizzlies title hopes, the Grizzlies belief in OJ probably had something to do with that pick, obviously they misjudged that whole situation.  He could have been as good as James Harden.  But throughout his life, he probably just kept making bad & costly decisions.

 

I would love to see him come back to the league and be good during the 2018-19 season, and I would love for it to be with the Grizzlies, but I can't see any of that happening at all.

 

 

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