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Memfizz

What's really depressing is we could have beat these Rockets

274 posts in this topic

Just now, Dwash said:

Dude, you old enough to remember that the East could atleast give Jordan a game. Shaqs Magic or Ewings Knicks or Millers Pacers or Mournings Heat werent gone get swept.

Yes, i thought about them but that was simply the Conference Final teams.   There path to the ECF wasn't any tougher than current Cavs or Heat teams.   The ECF teams that Bron have gone against aren't that much weaker than the teams GSW had to face.   Beside its easier to talk about how tough GSW run has been versus LeBron when it's only been 3 seasons for them.   Only tough teams they have faced so far that were clearly superior to the Eastern teams have been OKC and SAS.  

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12 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

Lebron also lost to the Warriors without Kyrie and KLove, and to the Spurs with half of Dwyane Wade, and dragged a team with a poo poo platter of assorted crap to the Finals in '07

Also, the Heat are nowhere close to being in a position to win that game without Lebron's efforts prior to the last shot. Sometimes you're fortunate, sometimes you're not. They all even out.

Lebron's been lucky in some senses, but has had his fair share of misfortune as well.

Revisionist history?

LeBron clanked about 4 big shots in a row including a 3 off the side of the backboard.

That Ray Allen 3 might have been what turned a chokey career around into a winner

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19 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Dude, you old enough to remember that the East could atleast give Jordan a game. Shaqs Magic or Ewings Knicks or Millers Pacers or Mournings Heat werent gone get swept. The one sweep they didnt get last year against the Raptors they just started doubling Derozan in game 5 and 6 to get the series over with.

Don't forget Pistons

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6 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah that was a great team. Then guys like Posey and Perkins. Not enough players like that going around today.

That's the real issue and why SuperTeams have become the norm.  Shouldn't penalize Bron for being drafted into the East. 

I give SAS, GSW, and (old) OKC tons of credit for actually drafting well and developing their Superteams organically.   Which is why I really hate that KD joined them because it makes them into a SuperTeam now. 

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10 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That's the real issue and why SuperTeams have become the norm.  Shouldn't penalize Bron for being drafted into the East. 

I give SAS, GSW, and (old) OKC tons of credit for actually drafting well and developing their Superteams organically.   Which is why I really hate that KD joined them because it makes them into a SuperTeam now. 

Yeah I feel KD for wanting to leave OKC and crazy Russ, just wish he woulda went to Washington or something.

At a time where the league is just lacking in true superstar power and great teams this was a bad time to stack the deck.

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9 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

Revisionist history?

LeBron clanked about 4 big shots in a row including a 3 off the side of the backboard.

That Ray Allen 3 might have been what turned a chokey career around into a winner

Lebron also made a big three with 20 seconds remaining.

Scored or assisted on 20 of Miami's 30 points in the fourth quarter when the Heat were down 10 entering the final frame. So yes, Lebron is essentially the only reason the Heat were in a position to win that game even with the turnovers which were bad.

Add to that, Wade for the game was 6-15 shooting. Outside of Chalmers, Lebron had no one scoring for him in that game consistently. Small contributions elsewhere. And of course Ray hit what would end up being the dagger.

So we can talk about Lebron all we want in the final 2 minutes of games. But again, when you score or assist on nearly 70% of your teams points in a fourth quarter in which you were originally down 10, yes. He was the guy that led the charge.

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Speaking of HOU.  How crazy is it to think if we would've made the move to get Eric Gordon we probably still be in the playoffs. 

Eric Gordon was a rumored target of ours for several seasons and rumored to be a backup plan if we didn't get Parsons.   He clearly would've been a great fit at SG next to this new version of Conley this year.   Not to mention that he is only getting paid 12m this season versus Chandlers 22m.  He is just as lethal a shooter as Parsons and around the same age (28yrs) and just as underwhelming on Defense due to his injuries.  Yet in that SAS series his ability to be a secondary playmaker and scoring would've been the key we needed to defeat them.   

In all reality, we wouldn't have been playing SAS anyway because we would've had a higher seed due to not having to deal with Parsons.  

Gordon also has real history with Conley as they played AAU together so chemistry wouldn't have been an issue.  He was another guy that seemed like an inevitable Chris Wallace signing (injury-prone, top HS prospect, redemption story).  Instead we gambled on the more glamorous option.  When in reality the ceilings for both Gordon and Chandler are the same.  Neither are AllStar level talents and both injury-prone but huge difference is that Gordon would've been the lower risk due to amount of money he commanded. 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Speaking of HOU.  How crazy is it to think if we would've made the move to get Eric Gordon we probably still be in the playoffs. 

Eric Gordon was a rumored target of ours for several seasons and rumored to be a backup plan if we didn't get Parsons.   He clearly would've been a great fit at SG next to this new version of Conley this year.   Not to mention that he is only getting paid 12m this season versus Chandlers 22m.  He is just as lethal a shooter as Parsons and around the same age (28yrs) and just as underwhelming on Defense due to his injuries.  Yet in that SAS series his ability to be a secondary playmaker and scoring would've been the key we needed to defeat them.   

In all reality, we wouldn't have been playing SAS anyway because we would've had a higher seed due to not having to deal with Parsons.  

Gordon also has real history with Conley as they played AAU together so chemistry wouldn't have been an issue.  He was another guy that seemed like an inevitable Chris Wallace signing (injury-prone, top HS prospect, redemption story).  Instead we gambled on the more glamorous option.  When in reality the ceilings for both Gordon and Chandler are the same.  Neither are AllStar level talents and both injury-prone but huge difference is that Gordon would've been the lower risk due to amount of money he commanded. 

Spending that Parsons money on guys like Gordon and Joe Johnson would have been the way to go.

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I thought we were considering going after Gordon WITH Parsons. I remember we were trying to clear more cap so we could give Gordon the deal he was seeking, but Houston jumped in front of us.

I remember a lot of people were getting excited because we were really making moves, but failed short of obtaining Gordon because we couldn't clear enough room quick enough. It still would've been risky considering Gordon's injury history, but I loved the fit because of his playmaking ability. It would've been nice to see us double down on playmaking/shooting with Parsons/Gordon (despite Parsons not being healthy this year).

Joe would've been a nice fit here too, but its easy to say that NOW. If we did in fact make that move, we would've complained about how we continually go after old players. So, I'm not going to act like I was all for us going after Joe this offseason lol. I would've been fine with Parsons + Gordon, though.

 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Spending that Parsons money on guys like Gordon and Joe Johnson would have been the way to go.

Yep or atleast Gordon and a legit backup PG.   Getting EG would've meant we didn't need Daniels

1 hour ago, BHZMAFIA said:

I thought we were considering going after Gordon WITH Parsons. I remember we were trying to clear more cap so we could give Gordon the deal he was seeking, but Houston jumped in front of us.

I remember a lot of people were getting excited because we were really making moves, but failed short of obtaining Gordon because we couldn't clear enough room quick enough. It still would've been risky considering Gordon's injury history, but I loved the fit because of his playmaking ability. It would've been nice to see us double down on playmaking/shooting with Parsons/Gordon (despite Parsons not being healthy this year).

Joe would've been a nice fit here too, but its easy to say that NOW. If we did in fact make that move, we would've complained about how we continually go after old players. So, I'm not going to act like I was all for us going after Joe this offseason lol. I would've been fine with Parsons + Gordon, though.

 

Okay i remember that now and yes i would've complained about adding all 3 (Gordon, CP, and Joe) LOL   Taking on all 3 would've been too big of a gamble due to health and age concerns. 

Vince actually did an okay job at filling that Joe Johnson role.  

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35 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yep or atleast Gordon and a legit backup PG.   Getting EG would've meant we didn't need Daniels

Okay i remember that now and yes i would've complained about adding all 3 (Gordon, CP, and Joe) LOL   Taking on all 3 would've been too big of a gamble due to health and age concerns. 

Vince actually did an okay job at filling that Joe Johnson role.  

 

We definitely could have used Gordon. Why front office? Why CP?

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2 hours ago, BHZMAFIA said:

I thought we were considering going after Gordon WITH Parsons. I remember we were trying to clear more cap so we could give Gordon the deal he was seeking, but Houston jumped in front of us.

I remember a lot of people were getting excited because we were really making moves, but failed short of obtaining Gordon because we couldn't clear enough room quick enough. It still would've been risky considering Gordon's injury history, but I loved the fit because of his playmaking ability. It would've been nice to see us double down on playmaking/shooting with Parsons/Gordon (despite Parsons not being healthy this year).

Joe would've been a nice fit here too, but its easy to say that NOW. If we did in fact make that move, we would've complained about how we continually go after old players. So, I'm not going to act like I was all for us going after Joe this offseason lol. I would've been fine with Parsons + Gordon, though.

 

I was okay with Joe at the contract he got (2 years 22 million. Basically new MLE). I talk about getting younger but I dont mind older guys that are productive, on short deals and surrounded by some youth. I certainly prefer that to paying nowhere near elite players like Parsons the max when coming off knee surgery. Kinda like the Hawks philosophy that led then to dropping Horford, Smith, Carroll, Joe, Korver and Teague. They just arent paying guys creeping on the downside huge 4 year deals just to be a first or second round out at best.  Shorter deals make more sense.

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22 minutes ago, Blue Bear said:

We definitely could have used Gordon. Why front office? Why CP?

 

I think a lot of people will get to see why they wanted Parsons if he can show up next season healthy and ready to play. 

The guy's skillset fits what we need perfectly, so I know exactly why we went after him. From a health standpoint, you definitely have to question why we went after him. Skillset, not so much.

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Let's not pretend like Gordon wasn't huge health question mark coming into the season as well. He played 75 games this year. His most games played since his rookie season. Those are the only two seasons he has played more than 64 games. The two years prior to free agency, Gordon had combined for 106 games played and Parsons had played in 127. In fact, every year until this year that Parsons has been in the league, he has played in more games that Gordon.

 

It's easy to look back and say we should have done something differently. But be realistic- Eric Gordon was every bit the injury risk Parsons was.

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8 hours ago, TT_Grizz said:

Actually, I think I will take the bait.

  • Draymond suspension wasn't "outside help", it was pure stupidity on his part. It had nothing to do with fortune or luck, but just plain stupidity. The NBA LITERALLY told him "stop hitting guys in the nuts or else you're suspended" and then he goes and does the exact same thing. Did his suspension give the Cavs an advantage in Game 5? Of course it did, but last I remember, he played in Game 6 and 7 as well, and they still couldn't get it done.
  • "Phantom Curry fouls" stop it. I've watched that Game 6 a number of times (I'm a huge LeBron fan), and it was clear that LeBron made a concentrated effort to attack Curry and get him into foul trouble early. I think *maybe* one of the 6 fouls was a 50/50 iffy call, but that happens, sometimes you get the call against you. Curry had 5 fouls on him and yet he still chose to play stupid and reach in on LeBron in the back-court (how not to play defense with foul trouble 101). Watch the replay, it's clear he got LeBron on the arm on that reach, a clear foul was called, he threw a hissy fit and got teched. I repeat, the unanimous MVP got fouled out in an elimination game in the Finals on the road, letting his team down, and then proceeded to throw his mouthguard at a fan like a child. Imagine LeBron did this and the outrage that would've ensued. 
  • Tristan Thompson is well-regarded around the league as one of the more versatile big-man defenders, and his ability to switch on pick and rolls on the smaller guy is one of the best in the league. His defense was huge that series and he was the 3rd most important Cav. He was not "holding Steph down". It's called physical defense. It's called the playoffs. Every single superstar has faced tougher, more physical defense in the playoffs, so stop acting like this was some league conspiracy against Curry that all of a sudden guys were allowed to hold him down. Physical, off-ball defense, welcome to the playoffs. 
  • The Iggy injury gave Cavs an advantage, yes, but when comparing it to the fortune of other teams injuries that Warriors have had fall their way, it's not as bad as what those other teams have had. If Iggy "couldn't walk" he wouldn't play. Game 6 was the only game where he looked real bad. As far as I know, he was playing crunch-time minutes in Game 7, and at that point, the "I'm hurt" excuse gets thrown out the window unless you're playing with a broken leg and 1 arm. Can't compare guys who are playing hurt (Iggy) to having your 2nd best player miss an entire series (Kyrie in 2015 finals). That's my point here.

 

People still wanna act like the Finals last year had some type of league conspiracy and script behind them. The Draymond suspension gave the Cavs an advantage, but it wasn't the turning point of the series. The turning point was the Warriors talking trash and disrespecting LeBron and getting cocky before the series was over. You don't bait one of the greatest players of all time. LeBron going into beast mode and playing at an all-time great level (along with Kyrie's play) was the turning point of the series. 

The Warriors lost 2 straight games at home. They had multiple chances to close it out and couldn't. Great teams shouldn't lost 2 straight at home in a championship game. There is no conspiracy...it's the Bron hate showing from the poster :)

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36 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Let's not pretend like Gordon wasn't huge health question mark coming into the season as well. He played 75 games this year. His most games played since his rookie season. Those are the only two seasons he has played more than 64 games. The two years prior to free agency, Gordon had combined for 106 games played and Parsons had played in 127. In fact, every year until this year that Parsons has been in the league, he has played in more games that Gordon.

 

It's easy to look back and say we should have done something differently. But be realistic- Eric Gordon was every bit the injury risk Parsons was.

Exactly, which I was okay with just like I was initially okay with the Parsons signing. A team desperate to add talent would have to take on that type of risk knowing the Grizz were trying to remain competitive over the next 3-4 seasons.

Rockets just ended up getting lucky with their two big FA signings (Gordon/Anderson), while we didn't with Parsons. All those guys had injury question marks going into the season. However, we did do okay with Conley/Gasol remaining healthy for most of the season which was a plus. 

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36 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Let's not pretend like Gordon wasn't huge health question mark coming into the season as well. He played 75 games this year. His most games played since his rookie season. Those are the only two seasons he has played more than 64 games. The two years prior to free agency, Gordon had combined for 106 games played and Parsons had played in 127. In fact, every year until this year that Parsons has been in the league, he has played in more games that Gordon.

 

It's easy to look back and say we should have done something differently. But be realistic- Eric Gordon was every bit the injury risk Parsons was.

You are right that cannot be overlooked.  My point was that we took the higher/risk gamble by going all in on Parsons when considering the money and injury history.  Especially stupid when we KNEW Cuban refused to take the same risk.

Let's be clear on paper they basically bring the same skillsets and are comparable talents.  Only real difference was the positions they played (SG or SF).    Ceiling-wise EG and Parsons are on par so no reason to take the higher risk in Parsons when you can get the same production from EG on smaller deal.   

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I agree. Parsons couldn't play last season but Eric Gordon could so there is really no comparison there. Parson's might not be able to recovery to an NBA player level next season. I hope he does but this is the risk they took.

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Just wanna say it's a **** shame‎ that what was shapin up to be the most competitive series in the playoffs is now lookin like a wash over some bull**** injury. How the league not gonna allow players to land safely after they shoot. They need to make an example of Pachulia n suspend him.‎

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10 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Thats pretty much true for most dynasty's tho.   East wasn't that great during Jordans' runs and Celtics won a ton of titles due to their simple path to finals.  

The East was way tougher than the West in the 80s.  The 90s started seeing a little more parity between the conferences.

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Popovich going off about stepping under feet and his history. The guy who introduced us to Bruce Bowen.

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Speaking of HOU.  How crazy is it to think if we would've made the move to get Eric Gordon we probably still be in the playoffs. 

Eric Gordon was a rumored target of ours for several seasons and rumored to be a backup plan if we didn't get Parsons.   He clearly would've been a great fit at SG next to this new version of Conley this year.   Not to mention that he is only getting paid 12m this season versus Chandlers 22m.  He is just as lethal a shooter as Parsons and around the same age (28yrs) and just as underwhelming on Defense due to his injuries.  Yet in that SAS series his ability to be a secondary playmaker and scoring would've been the key we needed to defeat them.   

In all reality, we wouldn't have been playing SAS anyway because we would've had a higher seed due to not having to deal with Parsons.  

Gordon also has real history with Conley as they played AAU together so chemistry wouldn't have been an issue.  He was another guy that seemed like an inevitable Chris Wallace signing (injury-prone, top HS prospect, redemption story).  Instead we gambled on the more glamorous option.  When in reality the ceilings for both Gordon and Chandler are the same.  Neither are AllStar level talents and both injury-prone but huge difference is that Gordon would've been the lower risk due to amount of money he commanded. 

Yeah, I was scared we'd sign him with his injury history, then look what happened.  Man, I wish we would have now.

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Kawhi said he didn't think Pachulia did it on purpose.  I don't see the need for any suspensions.  I just hope that somehow the Spurs can get it together like they did against Houston.

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