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Memfizz

What's really depressing is we could have beat these Rockets

274 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Even when he "shrinks" in the playoffs he is still usually (other than this year) bigger than Conley who has done next to nothing many times with the season on the line.

I could see Harden with a bunch of turnovers. Since he led the league in them.  Or missing a lot of threes since he takes a lot. Or keep trying to draw fouls and it not working. Thats usually how he goes out when he fails. Teams expose his lack of a mid range pull up game too at times. Yeah I got all of his flaws down and fully understand.

If you cant acknowledge that 2 shot attempts in the first half and just extremely passive play indicates something wrong then you are just being dishonest.

James Harden is a stat padder that won't win in the playoffs. He'd look great next to a true superstar like Paul George or KD, but if you are expecting him to win you a tough series, you might as well not bother.

Mike wins games.

 

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16 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

James Harden is a stat padder that won't win in the playoffs. He'd look great next to a true superstar like Paul George or KD, but if you are expecting him to win you a tough series, you might as well not bother.

Mike wins games.

 

Then why did he win more playoff games this year?  And more games during the regular season with no career All-Stars?

The issue is that you aren't leveling the two players first.  You are comparing a giant that everyone expects great things from and then when fails its a huge deal.  Versus Mike who when he fails it's not really a big deal and when he plays great and scores what Harden average's then everyone goes crazy and says he is underrated.

It's like calling Robert Horry and "winner" and Karl Malone or Charles Barkley a "loser."  You also have to acknowledge the gap between the two before comparing.

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Then why did he win more playoff games this year?  And more games during the regular season with no career All-Stars?

The issue is that you aren't leveling the two players first.  You are comparing a giant that everyone expects great things from and then when fails its a huge deal.  Versus Mike who when he fails it's not really a big deal and when he plays great and scores what Harden average's then everyone goes crazy and says he is underrated.

It's like calling Robert Horry and "winner" and Karl Malone or Charles Barkley a "loser."  You also have to acknowledge the gap between the two before comparing.

Karl Malone and Stockton both got their teams to the finals, lol. James Harden ain't close to Barkley or Malone. And I beg to difer that people don't expect Conley to play well.

The reason Harden is getting flack was because he was an mvp candidate this year, otherwise they wouldn't care about his playoff chokes, of which there are many.

Similarly, Mike Conley, because of his contract was under the microscope and he delivered for the most part. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Karl Malone and Stockton both got their teams to the finals, lol. James Harden ain't close to Barkley or Malone. And I beg to difer that people don't expect Conley to play well.

The reason Harden is getting flack was because he was an mvp candidate this year, otherwise they wouldn't care about his playoff chokes, of which there are many.

Similarly, Mike Conley, because of his contract was under the microscope and he delivered for the most part. 

 

I wasnt comparing Barkley or Malone to Harden directly or Horry to Conley for that matter. Im saying you have to acknowledge the massive gap in production over the years between the two players first, then understand a "choke" is only relative to expectations.

Even in terms of money, if Harden signs a big contract, its still to be expected that he play well. No one is going to sit around and analyze "if he earned it." He has a different set of expectations. It's understood that he is worth it. Right now teams would still line up to pay him the max even after last night.

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2 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I wasnt comparing Barkley or Malone to Harden directly or Horry to Conley for that matter. Im saying you have to acknowledge the massive gap in production over the years between the two players first, then understand a "choke" is only relative to expectations.

and it is always been my contention that Conley plays better on a bigger stage while James Harden's stats are largely empty, which again played out this year.

it doesn't matter if you score 40 a game, if you choke when the game is on the line you are a choker. harden's regular season stats are all about getting him paid. Mike's stats are always trying to get the team a win. Kyrie is the same way, melo, and many other players. The brow comes to mind as well as dcousins.

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3 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

and it is always been my contention that Conley plays better on a bigger stage while James Harden's stats are largely empty, which again played out this year.

it doesn't matter if you score 40 a game, if you choke when the game is on the line you are a choker. harden's regular season stats are all about getting him paid. Mike's stats are always trying to get the team a win. Kyrie is the same way, melo, and many other players. The brow comes to mind as well as dcousins.

Well then you cant brush off his failures that I showed you earlier to injury. He either does it or the stage or not.

And the to bring in Kyrie after the show he put on last June is just absurd. Really Im done.

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1 hour ago, Grizzled Vet said:

No.  Harden has a history of doing this in the big moments, even back to his NCAA tournament days at Arizona State.

Read his draft profile here. (Note: Of course I wish the Grizzlies and Heisley hadn't fallen for OKC's bluff about wanting Hakeem, and had drafted Harden instead).

Highlights:

On the other hand, James Harden had yet another underwhelming NCAA tournament performance, concluding a weekend that will raise eyebrows even amongst his biggest supporters, and clearly opening up the discussion for who the third best prospect in the draft is after Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio (if he declares). The concerns around Harden have always revolved around whether or not he has enough of a go-to mentality to warrant being picked in the top-5, as most teams would obviously like to get a franchise caliber talent that high in the draft. This weekend put those questions right back onto the table. Harden had yet another passive, lethargic start, similar to the way he performed in the first half against Temple. He actually finished the first half without a single point, and wasnt able to pick up a field goal until the 9:30 mark in the second half. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/James-Harden-1241/ ©DraftExpress

 

No, he just happens to get a concussion every time. It's not his fault!  

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You have to be a special kind of stupid to say Conley is better than Harden. You have to search for such a narrow band a stats to try and prop up that opinion that it is meaningless.

Anyone thinking Conley is better than Harden or has been better than Harden at any time up to and including this very moment, is such a homer that their opinions on the matter are worthless.

 

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Have to be quite the miserable to back Harden's epic choking performances and talk down on your own players.

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2 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

Have to be quite the miserable to back Harden's epic choking performances and talk down on your own players.

So the truth is talking down on a player?  What did I say bad about Conley?

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15 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

So the truth is talking down on a player?  What did I say bad about Conley?

Anybody that thinks that James Harden can run a team better than Conley just doesn't know basketball. That's a fact. Anybody that thinks Harden plays defense, lol. Anybody that thinks harden's turnovers are insignificant and doesn't matter is burying their head in the sand, literally the entire basketball universe criticizes him for it. 

 

Give me a break man. Harden's about getting that paper, and the only way he can do it is to jack up 20 shots a game and make it appear that he is a star.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Anybody that thinks that James Harden can run a team better than Conley just doesn't know basketball. That's a fact. Anybody that thinks Harden plays defense, lol. Anybody that thinks harden's turnovers are insignificant and doesn't matter is burying their head in the sand, literally the entire basketball universe criticizes him for it. 

 

Give me a break man. Harden's about getting that paper, and the only way he can do it is to jack up 20 shots a game and make it appear that he is a star.

John Wall is clearly better than Conley though and you haven't admitted it yet.

Please admit that Wall is an elite tier PG along with Curry and Wessy. 

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42 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

John Wall is clearly better than Conley though and you haven't admitted it yet.

Please admit that Wall is an elite tier PG along with Curry and Wessy. 

John Wall is better than Harden, but I'm not sure why you think he is better than Conley, other than the fact he is another guy taking 23 shots a game and hitting under 40%, which apparently tells you he is an alpha male.

 

Wall is probably more athletic than conley and he is a better pg than most of the other guards in this league, but he is not better than Conely at it, or Chris Paul at it. I'd put him 3rd behind them.

 

1. Chris Paul

2. Mike Conley

3. John Wall

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7 hours ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

John Wall is clearly better than Conley though and you haven't admitted it yet.

Please admit that Wall is an elite tier PG along with Curry and Wessy. 

My PG rankings rn are:

Russy

Curry

CP3

Wall 

Kyrie

Top 4 are elite. Could even put Wall above CP3, and if someone put Curry over Russ, I could understand that as well. 

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like i said in past posts I NEVER, NEVER had any FAITH with mike dantoni teams he will never win any thing because his team play no D

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In a slow paced system or a ball movement oriented system I'd want this current Conley.  In any other system I'd want Wall. 

Seriously though, Wall has been incredible. Even though he's not all that efficient, he makes things happen and opens things up for others with his attacking.  It still equates to wins.

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john walls season will end sunday

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5 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

In a slow paced system or a ball movement oriented system I'd want this current Conley.  In any other system I'd want Wall. 

Seriously though, Wall has been incredible. Even though he's not all that efficient, he makes things happen and opens things up for others with his attacking.  It still equates to wins.

My point with all of these inefficient guards is this: is it really helping your team or is it really helping you get paid?

The difference between Lebron or Kawhi, shooting 55% from the field and scoring 32 points a game, to a guy like Kryie or Harden or Lowry or any number of players shooting 39% from the field, 20 shoots a game is huge, and then turning the ball over at record rates is significant.

 

The difference between Conley and Chris Paul, they don't try to make their teams worse by making sure they get their numbers. They take good shots.

But again, Chris Paul came into the league when Hand checking was still a thing. Curry is great, but he also has the luxury of 4 superstars on that team, Mike doesn't have that luxury.  

 

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The difference between an elite PG like Wall and Conley is that Wall can play at whatever pace he wants because he is that talented. In the half court, he is arguably the best pg in the pick n roll in the league (Paul is probably still the best) while he is obviously dynamic in an up tempo team but he can be a one man fastbreak by himself. Any team with any players with any style, the only answer is Wall. 

 

Also lol at Wall not being efficient, he has a 56% TS % in the playoffs so far. Conley for his career is 54% TS, is he inefficient? Let us just take a look at Mike Conley's playoff run. Conley averaging 24 and 7 is considered him stepping up tremendously to another level. Wall averaged 23 and 11 for an entire season and needs to raise his level in the playoffs to 28 and 10 to not be considered a disappointment. If John Wall in game 7 has an elimination game like Conley did where he shoots 7-18 and allows the opposing point guard to light him up all game long, he will get destroyed in the press. 

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Yeah I love Conley, current Conley is a beast and a winner, but current John Wall is more of a game changer.  Constant pressure on the defense.

I love both honestly, would take either over a lot of overhyped guys

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6 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

Yeah I love Conley, current Conley is a beast and a winner, but current John Wall is more of a game changer.  Constant pressure on the defense.

I love both honestly, would take either over a lot of overhyped guys

What kind of miserable hates on their own players? You suck!

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21 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

The difference between an elite PG like Wall and Conley is that Wall can play at whatever pace he wants because he is that talented. In the half court, he is arguably the best pg in the pick n roll in the league (Paul is probably still the best) while he is obviously dynamic in an up tempo team but he can be a one man fastbreak by himself. Any team with any players with any style, the only answer is Wall. 

 

Also lol at Wall not being efficient, he has a 56% TS % in the playoffs so far. Conley for his career is 54% TS, is he inefficient? Let us just take a look at Mike Conley's playoff run. Conley averaging 24 and 7 is considered him stepping up tremendously to another level. Wall averaged 23 and 11 for an entire season and needs to raise his level in the playoffs to 28 and 10 to not be considered a disappointment. If John Wall in game 7 has an elimination game like Conley did where he shoots 7-18 and allows the opposing point guard to light him up all game long, he will get destroyed in the press. 

Most people believe that the grizzlies slow pace hurts conley, not helps him. But athletically speaking, sure wall is stronger and is more like a derrick rose, which conley is more like Manu. Crafty, but effective. 

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7 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Most people believe that the grizzlies slow pace hurts conley, not helps him. But athletically speaking, sure wall is stronger and is more like a derrick rose, which conley is more like Manu. Crafty, but effective. 

Conley doesn't run a fast break well and never has

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