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Memfizz

What's really depressing is we could have beat these Rockets

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

 

Ummm, actually the other day Barkley said the three most unguardable players in the league were Westbrook, Harden, and Lebron.  Shaq intervened and said what about Steph and Chuck said he could be stopped.

No one mentioned Mike.

Here is proof: http://cavaliers.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Barkley-says-James-Harden-Westbrook-are-unguardable-52587843

But carry on with your fantasies please.  :)

 

Except for Lebron, 2 of the most selfish players in the league. I'm sure that at one point barkley said the same thing about Melo.

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Dwash    0
1 minute ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Except for Lebron, 2 of the most selfish players in the league. I'm sure that at one point barkley said the same thing about Melo.

First you quote him as proof. Now when you realize Chucks opinion doesnt fit your agenda like you thought, lets attack his credibility:lol::lol:

 

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dwash...

you are correct in the fact that mike has not a track record of being unstoppable. that is true.

however, games 2-6 in these playoffs, he did prove to be just that.

i hope he brings that mentality into tc come this fall. if he does, this will truly be the start of a great ride.

 

slim.

 

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Iron Mike    0
17 hours ago, Allen said:

Only a homer would look at a rotation that included Harrison, Selden, Ennis and a 40 year old  and think they had a chance. With a healthy Parson and TA maybe but not with the group we had out there this year. The roster stinks and with no cap space no picks and a continuously aging core will probably stink worst next year.

Thread should've ended here.

 

Seriously, Conley is at par or not, better than James Harden? :rolleyes:

 

Bottom line is, with the roster we have now (yes, consider the injuries too), Rockets would still beat us in 6.

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Iron Mike    0
3 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

dwash...

you are correct in the fact that mike has not a track record of being unstoppable. that is true.

however, games 2-6 in these playoffs, he did prove to be just that.

i hope he brings that mentality into tc come this fall. if he does, this will truly be the start of a great ride.

 

slim.

 

 

I sure hope he does.

 

But we can't win with just Mike Conley. Maybe if he's Lebron, then yes.

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lsugrizzfan    0
15 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The facts are that other than KD, Kawhi and Lebron, and Chris Paul, Mike Conley is a better player than everybody in the league in the playoffs. He's proved it. So all of this snickering, about, they have stars and we have betas is a joke and doesn't reflect reality. Conley is a star and like Charles said, he is worth ever **** dollar he's gotten in this league.  

 

1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You are underrating Conely based on your hate of gng. It's not even about the numbers, anymore. It's a fact that in these playoffs conley has the 5th best per ahead of harden, Kyrie, and the rest of the players you worship, and yet according to you, that only moves your needle's opinion on him to absolutely nothing: because he is still only a "top tier guard."

Has he cracked your top 20 in pg's yet, I'm sure there are still 19 better pg in the league than Conley. But that's no slight on Conley, because the pgs in the league now are great. Conley is lucky to be even top 20.

So you are using a 6 game stretch to determine that Mike is better than Steph Curry, John Wall, and James Harden? And your go to stat is his PER during these 6 games? Granted that is the best Mike Conley we have ever seen; he was amazing. I hope he can be that over the course of an entire season.

 

But over the course of this season, all three of those guys had higher PER for the entire season than Mike Conley. It was the best season ever for Conley (and Wall) and all those guys who you say he is better than had a higher PER than him for the entire season, not just a six game series. On top of that, Curry has won two MVP awards, Harden will finish top 5 in the MVP voting for a second time, and both Curry and Harden have had a higher PER each of the last 4 years than Conley has had this year, his career year. In fact Curry and Harden have had a better PER every year they have been in the NBA than Conley did those years.

 

I have nothing against Conley. I have always liked him and seen his potential even when others advocated trading him or that he was the worst starting PG in the league. Would I trade him in the right trade? Absolutely. But that has more to do with the cast around him than anything. As Conley is getting better, the players around him are getting worse. I do believe that all three rookies could eventually be solid rotational players in the NBA, but by the time that happens, Conley will most likely be on the decline. Every team needs a star to be a title contender. Conley has yet to even make an all star team. You can talk about how underrated he is (true) and that he should have deserved to make a team or two by now (true), but reality is that true stars don't have to argue over making the all star team. They are on it. Their talent is undeniable.

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Memfizz    0
5 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Good lord are we really on here arguing about Conley being better than Harden??   Do you all realize that Grizz fans CAN believe Conley isn't better than Harden yet also believe that Conley is a top tier PG AT THE SAME TIME?!?! 

Also did anyone notice that we were the 7th seed this season and a 43 win team?   CORE4 basically played majority of the season yet we only managed a 7th seed?  We really wanted to be the 4th seed but couldn't manage that feat in spite of the Legendary MVP Mike Conley and Hall Of Famer Marc Gasol's best efforts??

Also have you blind homers not noticed that the CORE4 haven't been collectively healthy at the end of the year in like 4 seasons?? 

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for building this team around Mike and fully adapting the style of play to maximize his abilities.   Not because i think he is a Top 5 player in the league but because i think he is the easiest and best guy to build with on THIS team.   I think Fizz and Conley have proven themselves to be a great pairing.   Conley is the ONLY AllStar level player on our squad that is still in his prime.  So we should not waste anymore seasons trying to maximize GnG at the expense of the "Conductor".    

 

However, I will state once again that my being in favor of making moves to maximize Mike does not make me delusional enough to believe he is a Top5 player in the league. 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that we need to keep the gng 4 around just because  Conley has been great.. heck I want Gasol gone more than anyone. All I said was if he got preferential ref treatment he'd be a great great player and if Harden didn't, it'd be more a debate.  And I think we'd match up and slow down Houston well.  Better than us facing the team that's us, but more disciplined.    

It is annoying how much miserables on this board jizz over other teams players though.. Like the grass is always greener mindset.  Kyle Lowry anyone? Dude is a complete joke in the playoffs and half the board loved throwing out how he's better fit than Conley.

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1 hour ago, Memfizz said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that we need to keep the gng 4 around just because  Conley has been great.. heck I want Gasol gone more than anyone. All I said was if he got preferential ref treatment he'd be a great great player and if Harden didn't, it'd be more a debate.  And I think we'd match up and slow down Houston well.  Better than us facing the team that's us, but more disciplined.    

It is annoying how much miserables on this board jizz over other teams players though.. Like the grass is always greener mindset.  Kyle Lowry anyone? Dude is a complete joke in the playoffs and half the board loved throwing out how he's better fit than Conley.

 

I am so over this. I'm not going to spend the entire summer arguing the same thing over again. It's clear that conley represents, slow-it-down, unimaginative basketball, and that they'd rather have a .400 shooter jacking 23 shots a game, than Conley's brand of basketball, because that shows an Alpha male.  

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El Guapo    0
7 hours ago, memphis slim said:

dwash...

you are correct in the fact that mike has not a track record of being unstoppable. that is true.

however, games 2-6 in these playoffs, he did prove to be just that.

i hope he brings that mentality into tc come this fall. if he does, this will truly be the start of a great ride.

 

slim.

 

If Conley brings that level of play next season, and I don't see why not with Coach Fizdale, I believe he would be included in the top tier. 

Not trying to speak for KBM, but I believe he sees that being the case now and next season which makes his stance clear to me cause I'm right there with him. There just isn't evidence to support that right now, obviously.

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chipc3    0
16 hours ago, Memfizz said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that we need to keep the gng 4 around just because  Conley has been great.. heck I want Gasol gone more than anyone. All I said was if he got preferential ref treatment he'd be a great great player and if Harden didn't, it'd be more a debate.  And I think we'd match up and slow down Houston well.  Better than us facing the team that's us, but more disciplined.    

It is annoying how much miserables on this board jizz over other teams players though.. Like the grass is always greener mindset.  Kyle Lowry anyone? Dude is a complete joke in the playoffs and half the board loved throwing out how he's better fit than Conley.

People have been saying Lowry was better than Conley since Conley's rookie season. They said Conley was a pet of Hollins and that is why Lowry was traded in the first place. People who have been around a while on these boards have heard this ad nauseum. 

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GF#1    0

Like I've said repeatedly since 2007, Mike Conley is a better overall player than Kyle Lowry.

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MemphisX    0
38 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

Like I've said repeatedly since 2007, Mike Conley is a better overall player than Kyle Lowry.

Unfortunately this didn't become true until 2017.

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GF#1    0
19 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Unfortunately this didn't become true until 2017.

He's always been a better player.

Funny what different styles of play and a bigger role can do for a player. Mike could have been doing this years ago. Regardless of our opinions, I think we would all agree that Mike is clearly the more gifted player. His biggest fault was deferring too much for the "betterment" of the team.

Still unfortunate that he's rarely had any help at SG or SF in terms of scoring the past few seasons especially.

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Dwash    0
26 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

He's always been a better player.

Funny what different styles of play and a bigger role can do for a player. Mike could have been doing this years ago. Regardless of our opinions, I think we would all agree that Mike is clearly the more gifted player. His biggest fault was deferring too much for the "betterment" of the team.

Still unfortunate that he's rarely had any help at SG or SF in terms of scoring the past few seasons especially.

The biggest difference in Mike Conley has been shooting. Now that he makes jumpers and is a real threat teams have to play him differently and go over the top of screens and stay up on him. Instead of playing cat and mouse going under screens and backing off. This open things up for him.

I dont know anything about green lights or anything, but he did not SHOW this shooting ability until 2017. All I kept hearing was how he could do it. How he couldnt attack the rack because Zbo and Gasol were in the way (they were there in this playoff series too). I didnt buy it because a good scorer with the ball in his hands on a team that needs offense badly should figure it out imo. He isnt the first guard to play with two paint bigs. 

So I cant give someone credit for being better until they show it.  That would be like sitting here saying Draymond Green was better than Boris Diaw in 2013-14 but his coach had him in the wrong role or didnt let him loose. True or not, Boris Diaw was more impactful at the time. Just an example, I could find many others, so please dont nitpick Diaw and Greens game. You get the idea.

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5 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The biggest difference in Mike Conley has been shooting. Now that he makes jumpers and is a real threat teams have to play him differently and go over the top of screens and stay up on him. Instead of playing cat and mouse going under screens and backing off. This open things up for him.

I dont know anything about green lights or anything, but he did not SHOW this shooting ability until 2017. All I kept hearing was how he could do it. How he couldnt attack the rack because Zbo and Gasol were in the way (they were there in this playoff series too). I didnt buy it because a good scorer with the ball in his hands on a team that needs offense badly should figure it out imo. He isnt the first guard to play with two paint bigs. 

So I cant give someone credit for being better until they show it.  That would be like sitting here saying Draymond Green was better than Boris Diaw in 2013-14 but his coach had him in the wrong role or didnt let him loose. True or not, Boris Diaw was more impactful at the time. Just an example, I could find many others, so please dont nitpick Diaw and Greens game. You get the idea.

Yeah that's why Sam Cassell wanted John Wall to watch Mike, to learn how not to shoot the basketball, and why Charles said that Mike was the most underrated player the last 10 years, and that's why okc really wanted to go into triple overtime by letting conley open for 3, and why Chris Paul let mike go toe to toe with him.

 

Meanwhile, lowry is putting put playoff dud after playoff dud.

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GF#1    0
9 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The biggest difference in Mike Conley has been shooting. Now that he makes jumpers and is a real threat teams have to play him differently and go over the top of screens and stay up on him. Instead of playing cat and mouse going under screens and backing off. This open things up for him.

I dont know anything about green lights or anything, but he did not SHOW this shooting ability until 2017. All I kept hearing was how he could do it. How he couldnt attack the rack because Zbo and Gasol were in the way (they were there in this playoff series too). I didnt buy it because a good scorer with the ball in his hands on a team that needs offense badly should figure it out imo. He isnt the first guard to play with two paint bigs. 

So I cant give someone credit for being better until they show it.  That would be like sitting here saying Draymond Green was better than Boris Diaw in 2013-14 but his coach had him in the wrong role or didnt let him loose. True or not, Boris Diaw was more impactful at the time. Just an example, I could find many others, so please dont nitpick Diaw and Greens game. You get the idea.

This is fair.

Lowry always put up the better numbers. My only contention was two things: 1. he wasn't and isn't as talented and gifted as Conley and 2. he had the benefit of playing in a system that facilitates scoring for him.

It isn't so much that Gasol and Randolph were in the way. It's just that's how we used to play. And to your point we did play a little more of that style this year, but we also got Conley off the ball moving around a lot more. You make a good point about him knocking down jumpers, but for me it's just in the shot attempts. Like I always said, if he had a more comparable amount of shot attempts to Lowry he would put him similar numbers. And even this year Lowry shot more than Conley and Conley had a career high average # of FG attempts.

But yes. Shooting at a 40% clip from three will force defenses to play you differently, allowing for more short range opportunities.

I really want to see Conley have another legit shot maker next to him. We just haven't seen that in a really long time.

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Dwash    0
7 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

This is fair.

Lowry always put up the better numbers. My only contention was two things: 1. he wasn't and isn't as talented and gifted as Conley and 2. he had the benefit of playing in a system that facilitates scoring for him.

It isn't so much that Gasol and Randolph were in the way. It's just that's how we used to play. And to your point we did play a little more of that style this year, but we also got Conley off the ball moving around a lot more. You make a good point about him knocking down jumpers, but for me it's just in the shot attempts. Like I always said, if he had a more comparable amount of shot attempts to Lowry he would put him similar numbers. And even this year Lowry shot more than Conley and Conley had a career high average # of FG attempts.

But yes. Shooting at a 40% clip from three will force defenses to play you differently, allowing for more short range opportunities.

I really want to see Conley have another legit shot maker next to him. We just haven't seen that in a really long time.

I will agree that Conley has always been more explosive, better first step and ofcourse has one of the best offhands in the game (maybe the best), which was always exceptional.  Both are about the same in terms of passing.  I just felt that the main reason Lowry had better stats was his superior shooting and natural aggressiveness.  Now that Conley's shooting has caught up and he is looking to score more (whatever the reason maybe), I can give him the crown in this debate hands down (even though Lowry still had a great year).

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4 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

This is fair.

Lowry always put up the better numbers. My only contention was two things: 1. he wasn't and isn't as talented and gifted as Conley and 2. he had the benefit of playing in a system that facilitates scoring for him.

It isn't so much that Gasol and Randolph were in the way. It's just that's how we used to play. And to your point we did play a little more of that style this year, but we also got Conley off the ball moving around a lot more. You make a good point about him knocking down jumpers, but for me it's just in the shot attempts. Like I always said, if he had a more comparable amount of shot attempts to Lowry he would put him similar numbers. And even this year Lowry shot more than Conley and Conley had a career high average # of FG attempts.

But yes. Shooting at a 40% clip from three will force defenses to play you differently, allowing for more short range opportunities.

I really want to see Conley have another legit shot maker next to him. We just haven't seen that in a really long time.

Kyle Lowry, for his first 7 years of his career, had: 5.6, 9.6, 7.6, 9.1, 13.5 14.3, and 11.6, in points.

 

Also, I do believe that you are right GF#1 in that Lowry's system caters to his scoring. But here is the thing about it, it wasn't until the stat geeks Morey and Masai Ujiri (for Toronto) convinced their owners that shooting mindless 3s was the wave of the future.

 

It's going to interesting to see if Masai Ujiri has a job by next year, and if he doesn't what happens to Kyle Lowry. Miami Heat for years tried to find a point guard to play next to wade because Riley wasn't dumb enough to think that a shoot first pg was the answer. If you stop Lowery, you stop that team. 

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Memfizz    0
4 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Unfortunately this didn't become true until 2017.

Lol you're such a hater. Kyrie Lowry has always been a massive playoff choker and weak mindset.  Conley is the opposite.

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We will have to see how Washington or boston does against the cavs, but all the teams with the setup that the board wants to go to: Portland (lillard, cj), Toronto (Lowry, Demar), are fizzling in the playoffs, and if boston wins, it will be a nail in the coffin to that style, since Washington would be the other heavy team playing that style more than boston does.

 

The grizzlies need rebounding bad. They have to fix their rebounding: wright has to go, and even Jam if he can't improve needs to go. Right now the grizzlies best rebounder is 36 years old and that's a problem.

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lsugrizzfan    0
41 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The grizzlies need rebounding bad. They have to fix their rebounding: wright has to go, and even Jam if he can't improve needs to go. Right now the grizzlies best rebounder is 36 years old and that's a problem.

I agree. I have a friend I text during games and almost every time we are getting blown out at home, I look up at the hustle board and text him how bad we are losing the rebounding battle. Whenever we are close in rebounds, (not necessarily ahead, just close) we tend to be in the game.

 

Another reason I have never been a huge Gasol fan- terrible rebounder.

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MemphisX    0
2 hours ago, Memfizz said:

Lol you're such a hater. Kyrie Lowry has always been a massive playoff choker and weak mindset.  Conley is the opposite.

So that must mean Conley is still playing right? How many times has Conley left round 1?

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