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Memfizz

What's really depressing is we could have beat these Rockets

324 posts in this topic

15 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Stay in your bubbles. Please don't venture off this board to NBA fans thinking you will get agreement on Conley being better than Harden.

I will put up any sum that Harden is 1st team All NBA and Conley is not.  But I am sure that makes me a miserable and the rest of the basketball world is conspiring against Conley's greatness.

Lol maybe you should take a piece of your own advice.  Realgm is in love with Conley.  Cling to your awards though to stay in your misery that Memphis sucks and always will and everyone is worthless on our team.

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Saying a 10 year veteran who has never made an All Star game isnt better than a MVP candidate who is most likely on his way to the HOF makes someone a miserable?

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18 minutes ago, Allen said:

Saying a 10 year veteran who has never made an All Star game isnt better than a MVP candidate who is most likely on his way to the HOF makes someone a miserable?

Nope. Maybe you should go back a page and re-read.

We're talking about the 2017 playoffs bud.

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5 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

Nope. Maybe you should go back a page and re-read.

We're talking about the 2017 playoffs bud.

The very first post on Harden vs.Conley says "Harden is not a better player than Conley" and uses qualities in an attempt to quantify.  This says more than he just played better against the Spurs. The claim that he is better has been made.

Hardens body of work is just hands down better than Conley.  If we cant use numerous awards/accolades and overall career stats to prove it, what in Gods name can we use?

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Who the F cares if Conley played better over a 6 game stretch? Are we going to get a banner up in the forum for that? Is that the kind of stuff we're holding on to these days to feel good about our obviously declining team?

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Getting back to topic, after watching the Spurs / Rockets game(s), I don't think the Grizzlies would have had a chance vs the Rockets.

Over the past 3 seasons, each season the league has averaged more 3 pt shots taken AND have averaged better 3 pt %, AND have increased 2 pt % as well. While the rest of the league has been getting better at shooting, this season we have seen the Grizzlies last in FG%, last in 2 pt %, and 17th in 3 pt %. The league has been getting better at making their shots and we have fallen. There just is no way that the worst shooting team in the NBA can be expected to win in the playoffs. Heck, I find it amazing that any team could make the playoffs while shooting so poorly. Definitely need some big moves this off season.

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2 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The very first post on Harden vs.Conley says "Harden is not a better player than Conley" and uses qualities in an attempt to quantify.  This says more than he just played better against the Spurs. The claim that he is better has been made.

Hardens body of work is just hands down better than Conley.  If we cant use numerous awards/accolades and overall career stats to prove it, what in Gods name can we use?

PER

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12 minutes ago, Dwash said:

The very first post on Harden vs.Conley says "Harden is not a better player than Conley" and uses qualities in an attempt to quantify.  This says more than he just played better against the Spurs. The claim that he is better has been made.

Hardens body of work is just hands down better than Conley.  If we cant use numerous awards/accolades and overall career stats to prove it, what in Gods name can we use?

I never said he was better, and I'm the one saying you guys are miserables. Which is what you were referring to.

I think Conley is a better all around player, better intangibles too, but I think Harden is better overall just due to his scoring and free throw garbage that results in a ton of points and pressure on the D, which is as good as anyone in this watered down league.  But I don't think Harden plays winning basketball all the time... Taking off on defense, completely at times, and being sloppy with the ball, only searching for fouls often is hurtful to your team.  He has a great cast though.  

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Harden is better than Conley in all aspects of the game except defense i guess, i dont even think it is fair to compare the two. However, you can make a great case for Conley being the 3rd best point guard in the league behind Curry and Westbrook. 

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5 hours ago, Dwash said:

The very first post on Harden vs.Conley says "Harden is not a better player than Conley" and uses qualities in an attempt to quantify.  This says more than he just played better against the Spurs. The claim that he is better has been made.

Hardens body of work is just hands down better than Conley.  If we cant use numerous awards/accolades and overall career stats to prove it, what in Gods name can we use?

Now you want to talk about body of work. Harden's stats are fools gold, because his team never does anything in the playoffs. The only series his team has ever won that he was clearly not the best team was that clippers series.

 

But here's the thing, up until mike decided that he wanted to prove his worth, y'all could laugh at the fact that conley was better. Now there is proof. Mike is better. Harden plays selfish basketball, and he won't be going any further than the second round.

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2 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Now you want to talk about body of work. Harden's stats are fools gold, because his team never does anything in the playoffs. The only series his team has ever won that he was clearly not the best team was that clippers series.

 

But here's the thing, up until mike decided that he wanted to prove his worth, y'all could laugh at the fact that conley was better. Now there is proof. Mike is better. Harden plays selfish basketball, and he won't be going any further than the second round.

This might be the dumbest post you have ever written which is a significant accomplishment in this thread alone.  

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17 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

This might be the dumbest post you have ever written which is a significant accomplishment in this thread alone.  

No, I'm just really sick of the Mike Conley pure hate on the board, and for James, I do nothing but pad my stats, harden. Sick of it. If you want to continue to make jabs at Conley, you look silly, but you've been looking that way for a long while. So, there is history.

 

It's plain silly. You would think since the rockets are so great this year that the mvp harden would be blowing away the overrated conley, but of course that's not the case.

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36 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

No, I'm just really sick of the Mike Conley pure hate on the board, and for James, I do nothing but pad my stats, harden. Sick of it. If you want to continue to make jabs at Conley, you look silly, but you've been looking that way for a long while. So, there is history.

 

It's plain silly. You would think since the rockets are so great this year that the mvp harden would be blowing away the overrated conley, but of course that's not the case.

Nobody has taken jabs at Conley.  Saying he isn't as good as Harden or hasn't had as good of season as Harden is not a jab...it is a fact.  Now if facts disturb you, that is a personal problem. 

 

You want to talk about the team player aspect but so many Rockets are having their best season ever.  The Rockets team won more games with Harden being their best player this season.  Conley wasn't even our best player this season.  The Rocket's team also made it further in the playoffs.  The Rockets team also beat San Antonio on their home floor. 

More cold water?  San Antonio tried to play Harden like they did Conley game 1 with Danny Green guarding him most of the game and Harden destroyed Danny Green.  You can't compare Harden being guarded by the best perimeter defender in the league the entire game to Conley being guarded by Danny Green

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38 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

No, I'm just really sick of the Mike Conley pure hate on the board, and for James, I do nothing but pad my stats, harden. Sick of it. If you want to continue to make jabs at Conley, you look silly, but you've been looking that way for a long while. So, there is history.

 

It's plain silly. You would think since the rockets are so great this year that the mvp harden would be blowing away the overrated conley, but of course that's not the case.

It's not really a James Harden thing.. It's just that every player outside of Memphis is awesome to posters on here.  Even after Mike has a breakout playoffs, you still have ppl wanting to hump the other side.  Everything is green on the other side.. 

That said, Harden will always be a star if they will continue to officiate him the way they do. That's the reality. Take that away and I think he's a really good scorer and Conley is a good scorer, and ready good all around.  

They're both very different players, but the PG/wing combo I want most to lead my team to a championship, I'd probably go Conley & Kawhi.  LeBron is amazing right now, but I think 2 years left of this level for him.

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7 minutes ago, Memfizz said:

It's not really a James Harden thing.. It's just that every player outside of Memphis is awesome to posters on here.  Even after Mike has a breakout playoffs, you still have ppl wanting to hump the other side.  Everything is green on the other side.. 

That said, Harden will always be a star if they will continue to officiate him the way they do. That's the reality. Take that away and I think he's a really good scorer and Conley is a good scorer, and ready good all around.  

They're both very different players, but the PG/wing combo I want most to lead my team to a championship, I'd probably go Conley & Kawhi.  LeBron is amazing right now, but I think 2 years left of this level for him.

I'm convinced that people on this board hate the grizzlies style so much that it will never matter what conley does, conley is a part of a team that plays team basketball and defense, and so he's not going to get his due, because they will always be: yeah but conley ain't a star. Well, he put up star numbers. I know, but he ain't a star. Why? because he plays for the grizzlies, and he is a core four. We need stars.

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Good lord are we really on here arguing about Conley being better than Harden??   Do you all realize that Grizz fans CAN believe Conley isn't better than Harden yet also believe that Conley is a top tier PG AT THE SAME TIME?!?! 

Also did anyone notice that we were the 7th seed this season and a 43 win team?   CORE4 basically played majority of the season yet we only managed a 7th seed?  We really wanted to be the 4th seed but couldn't manage that feat in spite of the Legendary MVP Mike Conley and Hall Of Famer Marc Gasol's best efforts??

Also have you blind homers not noticed that the CORE4 haven't been collectively healthy at the end of the year in like 4 seasons?? 

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for building this team around Mike and fully adapting the style of play to maximize his abilities.   Not because i think he is a Top 5 player in the league but because i think he is the easiest and best guy to build with on THIS team.   I think Fizz and Conley have proven themselves to be a great pairing.   Conley is the ONLY AllStar level player on our squad that is still in his prime.  So we should not waste anymore seasons trying to maximize GnG at the expense of the "Conductor".    

 

However, I will state once again that my being in favor of making moves to maximize Mike does not make me delusional enough to believe he is a Top5 player in the league. 

 

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21 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Good lord are we really on here arguing about Conley being better than Harden??   Do you all realize that Grizz fans CAN believe Conley isn't better than Harden yet also believe that Conley is a top tier PG AT THE SAME TIME?!?! 

Also did anyone notice that we were the 7th seed this season and a 43 win team?   CORE4 basically played majority of the season yet we only managed a 7th seed?  We really wanted to be the 4th seed but couldn't manage that feat in spite of the Legendary MVP Mike Conley and Hall Of Famer Marc Gasol's best efforts??

Also have you blind homers not noticed that the CORE4 haven't been collectively healthy at the end of the year in like 4 seasons?? 

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for building this team around Mike and fully adapting the style of play to maximize his abilities.   Not because i think he is a Top 5 player in the league but because i think he is the easiest and best guy to build with on THIS team.   I think Fizz and Conley have proven themselves to be a great pairing.   Conley is the ONLY AllStar level player on our squad that is still in his prime.  So we should not waste anymore seasons trying to maximize GnG at the expense of the "Conductor".    

 

However, I will state once again that my being in favor of making moves to maximize Mike does not make me delusional enough to believe he is a Top5 player in the league. 

 

You are underrating Conely based on your hate of gng. It's not even about the numbers, anymore. It's a fact that in these playoffs conley has the 5th best per ahead of harden, Kyrie, and the rest of the players you worship, and yet according to you, that only moves your needle's opinion on him to absolutely nothing: because he is still only a "top tier guard."

Has he cracked your top 20 in pg's yet, I'm sure there are still 19 better pg in the league than Conley. But that's no slight on Conley, because the pgs in the league now are great. Conley is lucky to be even top 20.

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6 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

You are underrating Conely based on your hate of gng. It's not even about the numbers, anymore. It's a fact that in these playoffs conley has the 5th best per ahead of harden, Kyrie, and the rest of the players you worship, and yet according to you, that only moves your needle's opinion on him to absolutely nothing: because he is still only a "top tier guard."

Has he cracked your top 20 in pg's yet, I'm sure there are still 19 better pg in the league than Conley. But that's no slight on Conley, because the pgs in the league now are great. Conley is lucky to be even top 20.

haha wrong poster KBM i am actually one of the Pro-Conley guys and was a supporter while majority was trying to trade him for Ramon Sessions.   Saying he is a top tier PG is high praise in todays PG heavy league.  I believe he is an AllStar level PG easily but still not insane enough to say he is a top 5 player in the league.  

 

I can possibly put him as a top 20 player, which once again is high praise.   Marc is the only guy on the team that has possessed the skillset, talent, and size to crack top 10 in his best season.  

 

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35 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Good lord are we really on here arguing about Conley being better than Harden??   Do you all realize that Grizz fans CAN believe Conley isn't better than Harden yet also believe that Conley is a top tier PG AT THE SAME TIME?!?! 

Also did anyone notice that we were the 7th seed this season and a 43 win team?   CORE4 basically played majority of the season yet we only managed a 7th seed?  We really wanted to be the 4th seed but couldn't manage that feat in spite of the Legendary MVP Mike Conley and Hall Of Famer Marc Gasol's best efforts??

Also have you blind homers not noticed that the CORE4 haven't been collectively healthy at the end of the year in like 4 seasons?? 

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for building this team around Mike and fully adapting the style of play to maximize his abilities.   Not because i think he is a Top 5 player in the league but because i think he is the easiest and best guy to build with on THIS team.   I think Fizz and Conley have proven themselves to be a great pairing.   Conley is the ONLY AllStar level player on our squad that is still in his prime.  So we should not waste anymore seasons trying to maximize GnG at the expense of the "Conductor".    

 

However, I will state once again that my being in favor of making moves to maximize Mike does not make me delusional enough to believe he is a Top5 player in the league. 

 

Clearly GTF is not delusional about Conley being that good. It's other stuff he's delusional about! :)

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

haha wrong poster KBM i am actually one of the Pro-Conley guys and was a supporter while majority was trying to trade him for Ramon Sessions.   Saying he is a top tier PG is high praise in todays PG heavy league.  I believe he is an AllStar level PG easily but still not insane enough to say he is a top 5 player in the league.  

 

I can possibly put him as a top 20 player, which once again is high praise.   Marc is the only guy on the team that has possessed the skillset, talent, and size to crack top 10 in his best season.  

 

I think that is because you devalue what Conley has done, clearly. He has a top 5 per in the playoffs, when it was pop's goal to stop him. All I heard from the Conley naysaysers was that the spurs were going to put Kawhi on Conley and shut him down. Did that happen? No, conley proceeded to put up a top 5 per in the playoffs.

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You aren't going to get anyone to agree that putting up the 6th best PER (behind Lebron James, Kawai Leonard, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul and Javale McGee) in 6 games (4 losses) against one team now makes Conley a top 5 player in the league and better than James Harden.  No matter how much you jump up and down about it.  People from the naysayers side, the Sunshine Patrol and pretty much everyone in between all think it's ridiculous. 

 

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Holy moly this thread made my eyes bleed. :wacko:

To sum it all up, no this Grizzlies team wasn't going to beat the Rockets. Simply too much firepower. Plus the Spurs have Kawhi to slow down Harden. Who on the Grizzlies is capable of that? Plus, the supporting cast of the Spurs has no where near the firepower that the cast of the Rockets provide.

Mike Conley is not a top 5 player in the league, and I don't care what statistics you wish to throw out there for 6 games. He still hasn't done it consistently enough to justify labeling him as such a player. And I have arguably been Mike Conley's biggest supporter since the night he was drafted. Mike was sensational for us in the playoffs and has been the entire season, specifically the 2nd half of the year. But you simply cannot put him ahead of Harden just on body of work, and given where Harden has gotten his team to this point.

I personally believe that Conley should have made an All-Star team by now, but there is no scenario where a non All Star player is better than a perennial MVP candidate who is a multiple time All-Star. Yes, Harden has a better supporting cast, but he's been the more outstanding player for a much longer period of time.

The issue isn't what Mike Conley is or isn't. The issue is how are we going to maximize and take advantage of his current production level. This team has some issues, and it ain't gonna matter how good Mike is. The current version of this team isn't getting us anywhere, and something needs to be done.

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9 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

Holy moly this thread made my eyes bleed. :wacko:

To sum it all up, no this Grizzlies team wasn't going to beat the Rockets. Simply too much firepower. Plus the Spurs have Kawhi to slow down Harden. Who on the Grizzlies is capable of that? Plus, the supporting cast of the Spurs has no where near the firepower that the cast of the Rockets provide.

Mike Conley is not a top 5 player in the league, and I don't care what statistics you wish to throw out there for 6 games. He still hasn't done it consistently enough to justify labeling him as such a player. And I have arguably been Mike Conley's biggest supporter since the night he was drafted. Mike was sensational for us in the playoffs and has been the entire season, specifically the 2nd half of the year. But you simply cannot put him ahead of Harden just on body of work, and given where Harden has gotten his team to this point.

I personally believe that Conley should have made an All-Star team by now, but there is no scenario where a non All Star player is better than a perennial MVP candidate who is a multiple time All-Star. Yes, Harden has a better supporting cast, but he's been the more outstanding player for a much longer period of time.

The issue isn't what Mike Conley is or isn't. The issue is how are we going to maximize and take advantage of his current production level. This team has some issues, and it ain't gonna matter how good Mike is. The current version of this team isn't getting us anywhere, and something needs to be done.

Yeah, to talk about the Grizzlies vs. Rockets, Mike would have done very well as he has been the only consistent spotlight performer for the team all year.  But yet again, the Rockets would have gone small and put the likes of Anderson, Ariza and even Harden on Gasol (and Jamychal) and they would have done very little.  They would have neutralized Zbo with Nene and Capela.  When Zbo played because we desperately need offense Gordon, Harden, Lou Williams would have attacked him relentlessly.  This is all nothing new.  It's the blueprint that every team with superior talent has used over and over to attack the Grizzlies.  

And then once Zbo sat, if they ever discovered that the could put Anderson/Ariza/Harden/Gordon/Lou Williams on the court at the same time like last night it would have been curtains.  

One of the biggest reasons for lack of postseason success in the last few years is that these small lineups DO work now against them. Been proven more than once.  The regular season and playoffs are different, but they aren't that different.

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16 minutes ago, Dwash said:

You aren't going to get anyone to agree that putting up the 6th best PER (behind Lebron James, Kawai Leonard, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul and Javale McGee) in 6 games (4 losses) against one team now makes Conley a top 5 player in the league and better than James Harden.  No matter how much you jump up and down about it.  People from the naysayers side, the Sunshine Patrol and pretty much everyone in between all think it's ridiculous. 

 

He did it all year, but 20 points for Conley might as well be a role player, on the board.

 

But again, your argument whether you understand it or not, is all about style of play. And any grizzlies player is worse in your eyes because he doesn't play the style you want the team to play.

I don't see anybody bringing their star player to see Harden play, but Sam Cassell brought Wall to see Conley play. I don't see Chuck gushing over Harden, but Barkley has consistently said that Mike was the most underrated player in the last 10 years.

 

Eventually, harden is going to look like melo, a selfish scorer that only cares about his own stats. 

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1 minute ago, Kevin B Moses said:

He did it all year, but 20 points for Conley might as well be a role player, on the board.

 

But again, your argument whether you understand it or not, is all about style of play. And any grizzlies player is worse in your eyes because he doesn't play the style you want the team to play.

I don't see anybody bringing their star player to see Harden play, but Sam Cassell brought Wall to see Conley play. I don't see Chuck gushing over Harden, but Barkley has consistently said that Mike was the most underrated player in the last 10 years.

 

Eventually, harden is going to look like melo, a selfish scorer that only cares about his own stats. 

 

Ummm, actually the other day Barkley said the three most unguardable players in the league were Westbrook, Harden, and Lebron.  Shaq intervened and said what about Steph and Chuck said he could be stopped.

No one mentioned Mike.

Here is proof: http://cavaliers.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Barkley-says-James-Harden-Westbrook-are-unguardable-52587843

But carry on with your fantasies please.  :)

 

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