Sign in to follow this  
Kevin B Moses

Devil's Advocate Thread: No Reason To Make A Change

Recommended Posts

Yes, to me, there is no reason to make any drastic changes this year. I'm fully aware that Marc really disappointed in the playoffs and sorta showed that he may not be the player we need him to be.

 

But the problem is that the grizzlies are hamstrung next year no matter what we do. The truth is that the grizzlies are what they are, no cap and a bunch of question marks.

 

I don't think trading marc really benefits the team. I do think that realizing who marc is and how we need to approach our offense going forward does benefit the team, if fizdale continues to open the game up for Mike.

 

Marc guarantees that the grizzlies will have a good defense, and in spots, he's clutch, just don't expect more and you'll appreciate him more I guess.

 

This team for better or worse is relying on development, development, development. We have many players on the come, and we are going to see if any of them show real potential.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe I'm taking the bait, but oh well...

 

How exactly are we hamstrung next year no matter what, if we had the courage to trade Marc?  I would argue if this is what Gasol intends to give us, we are more hamstrung by keeping him and slotting him as one of our top 2 guys.  

 

We SHOULD get at least 1, maybe 2 guys who can help us right away - not just fill a slot, but be true cogs in the wheel.  Plus future help.  Getting a 1st rounder in any deal for Marc should be mandatory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe I'm taking the bait, but oh well...

 

How exactly are we hamstrung next year no matter what, if we had the courage to trade Marc?  I would argue if this is what Gasol intends to give us, we are more hamstrung by keeping him and slotting him as one of our top 2 guys.  

 

We SHOULD get at least 1, maybe 2 guys who can help us right away - not just fill a slot, but be true cogs in the wheel.  Plus future help.  Getting a 1st rounder in any deal for Marc should be mandatory.

 

Last year I said that the grizzlies should spend their cap space on depth, rather than that one star player, and was shot down. Now you want to trade Marc for depth.

 

To me, trading Marc for depth is a lateral move at best. The grizzlies had 3 players in the top 35 picks in last years draft, and according to most on the board, they are all busts.

 

You might not like marc, but you know what you get with him. The key for the grizzlies to move forward is to shore up the pick and roll defense, and keep developing the young players we got.

 

Again, the grizzlies are hamstrung because the only path to improvement lies with the players they already have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year I said that the grizzlies should spend their cap space on depth, rather than that one star player, and was shot down. Now you want to trade Marc for depth.

 

To me, trading Marc for depth is a lateral move at best. The grizzlies had 3 players in the top 35 picks in last years draft, and according to most on the board, they are all busts.

 

You might not like marc, but you know what you get with him. The key for the grizzlies to move forward is to shore up the pick and roll defense, and keep developing the young players we got.

 

Again, the grizzlies are hamstrung because the only path to improvement lies with the players they already have.

Thats pretty much the way I see it too. Honestly I'd be dumstruck shocked if the FO were to consider a trade for Marc, unless Marc specifically asked for one. And Parsons has no value right now, and even with some value, a trade so early in his contract would be an admission of wrong on Wallace's part so that aint gonna happen either.

 

For the first time, I'm thinking that it may be Zach who is let go, unless he takes vet min.

 

Other than that, as I stated before, sweeping the place clean of all the bench minus Harrison, Selden, Davis and maybe Daniels saves about $25mil ($35mil if you let Zbo go) - not a lot but something to get mid level players with who may have upside but have fallen out of favour for one reason or another

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if any 1 sees the reason now why Conley shouldn't have gotten the contract that he did. People are now complaining about Gasol. I said he wasn't worth 20Mnd now the Grizz don't know what they got with Parsons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if any 1 sees the reason now why Conley shouldn't have gotten the contract that he did. People are now complaining about Gasol. I said he wasn't worth 20Mnd now the Grizz don't know what they got with Parsons.

I dont have a problem with the Conley contract. Its the Parsons contract that had question marks all over it.

 

That may change if Parsons become a 20+ppg scorer with no injuries and we get to WCF.

 

If not, that is the ball and chain.

You would get no shortage of takers if you wanted to move Mike and his contract right now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We’re getting our plans together,” said Wallace, who just completed his 10th year with the franchise. - CA article

 

Clearly if Wallace hasn't been worried enough to start planning before now there is no reason to believe the team will be blown up this summer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the parsons contract was a no-brainer.

you can't blame wallace for taking a swing for the fences on such a talent in the league.

teams like memphis don't get those opportunities often and he did the right thing imo.

 

the head-scratching are the years of drafting and the 1sts given away again and again.

also, it certainly looked like we just threw the max out to conley without seeing if we could have gotten him for $20m cheaper over all.

think we could have.

 

im with chip on this summer and jam green. let the market set the price and then we swoop in and pay the tab.

we should not be a part of setting the market price.

i also don't think we should go above @$12 per for him at the max.

 

 

slim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the parsons contract was a no-brainer.

you can't blame wallace for taking a swing for the fences on such a talent in the league.

teams like memphis don't get those opportunities often and he did the right thing imo.

 

the head-scratching are the years of drafting and the 1sts given away again and again.

also, it certainly looked like we just threw the max out to conley without seeing if we could have gotten him for $20m cheaper over all.

think we could have.

 

im with chip on this summer and jam green. let the market set the price and then we swoop in and pay the tab.

we should not be a part of setting the market price.

i also don't think we should go above @$12 per for him at the max.

 

 

slim.

 

Good stuff here, I too thought we could have gotten Conley for less, but either way we locked him up and in 2 years his contract won't look so bad as the cap continues to go up. Right now he's earning every penny.

 

I wasn't jumping up and down at the Parsons signing, was kind of in the middle, but to your point, can't blame the Grizzlies for going for it.

 

Agree 100% on Green.

 

Sadly, the only realistic way I see the Grizzlies improving is Parsons getting right and producing. The unrealistic route would be trading Marc - highly unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gasol is not a #1, but he's a very good #2 and if Conley gives us a full year of his March and April of this year, we will be fine. If Parsons returns to a 18ppg (BIG if) versatile player, we can contend for a top 3 seed. If not, we are 6-8. It really all hinges on Parsons. If the Grizz staff believe he will never get to at least a 15/5 guy, then we may need to move Mark as he's our only valuable asset. We could get a top 15 pick and a serviceable younger big out of it I'd think. This would probably keep us in the 7-10 range in the West with hope for the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have many players on the come, and we are going to see if any of them show real potential.   

 

Remind me - which teams have fewer development options than we do? 

 

Who has fewer draft choices?

 

We're developing Baldwin, Harrison, Davis, Martin.

Other teams are developing Towns, Hield, D'A Russell, Kaminsky,  Jokic, Porzingis, JSimmons, BSimmons, Jamal Murray, Brogdon, Booker, Chriss, Ingram, JOkafor, Turner, Saric, ...   

Ugh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see us moving Marc anyways.

 

My main concern is how will we improve next season without trading away Marc/Parsons. What players can we bring in to make this team go up another level? I think even if you have Parsons playing at a high level next season, we still need some of young guys to take a huge leap or bring in 1 or 2 guys that can do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think we will move Marc (nor do I think it would be beneficial for the team). We will see some "change" though. 

 

Would love to see us move on from TA and look to replace him with a better up and coming wing. If we are looking on the cheap how about Justin Holiday? 

 

If we move on from Zbo those points and rebounds will need to be replaced internally or via free agency. Same for JaM Green. Green is easily replaceable. Two Patt up in Toronto can literally do the exact same things as JaM. People mention T. Jones as another option. Replacing Randolph is a much more difficult proposition. 

 

I do not see any current young Grizz (Davis, Martin, Baldwin, or Harrison) stepping up to the level required to replace Zach's production. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think we will move Marc (nor do I think it would be beneficial for the team). We will see some "change" though. 

 

Would love to see us move on from TA and look to replace him with a better up and coming wing. If we are looking on the cheap how about Justin Holiday? 

 

If we move on from Zbo those points and rebounds will need to be replaced internally or via free agency. Same for JaM Green. Green is easily replaceable. Two Patt up in Toronto can literally do the exact same things as JaM. People mention T. Jones as another option. Replacing Randolph is a much more difficult proposition. 

 

I do not see any current young Grizz (Davis, Martin, Baldwin, or Harrison) stepping up to the level required to replace Zach's production. 

Like i posted in another thread -- replacing Tony can be done by committee from internal development.   Selden, Harrison, Ennis all have the tools to become solid defenders.   They will not be elite like Tony but they also won't be as 1 dimensional either so it can balance out. 

 

Technically if Parsons can get healthy then he can easily replace the point production zbo provided (14ppg) and if you are looking at the rebounding then Davis has shown to be a good bet there. 

 

Toughness, experience, and team identity will be the biggest loss from moving on from them.    The last few years the team has played significant minutes with those guys in street clothes and we still won games.  

 

Believe it or not JaMyke is one that is more difficult to replace due to his ability to shoot 3s and versatility on defense.  We don't have an internal candidate that can replicate what he brings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like i posted in another thread -- replacing Tony can be done by committee from internal development. Selden, Harrison, Ennis all have the tools to become solid defenders. They will not be elite like Tony but they also won't be as 1 dimensional either so it can balance out.

 

Technically if Parsons can get healthy then he can easily replace the point production zbo provided (14ppg) and if you are looking at the rebounding then Davis has shown to be a good bet there.

 

Toughness, experience, and team identity will be the biggest loss from moving on from them. The last few years the team has played significant minutes with those guys in street clothes and we still won games.

 

Believe it or not JaMyke is one that is more difficult to replace due to his ability to shoot 3s and versatility on defense. We don't have an internal candidate that can replicate what he brings.

PJ Tucker is a name that was brought up to me but I don't like him in the new system. James Johnson is an unrestricted FA I think he could be a decent Jam replacement and he fits the system

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the parsons contract was a no-brainer.

you can't blame wallace for taking a swing for the fences on such a talent in the league.

teams like memphis don't get those opportunities often and he did the right thing imo.

 

the head-scratching are the years of drafting and the 1sts given away again and again.

also, it certainly looked like we just threw the max out to conley without seeing if we could have gotten him for $20m cheaper over all.

think we could have.

 

im with chip on this summer and jam green. let the market set the price and then we swoop in and pay the tab.

we should not be a part of setting the market price.

i also don't think we should go above @$12 per for him at the max.

 

 

slim.

 

I actually agree with the Parsons statement. As long as our doctors gave the GM the thumbs up (which I'm assuming they did since we moved forward with the investment), there was no way the Grizzlies could afford not to take that swing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like i posted in another thread -- replacing Tony can be done by committee from internal development. Selden, Harrison, Ennis all have the tools to become solid defenders. They will not be elite like Tony but they also won't be as 1 dimensional either so it can balance out.

 

Technically if Parsons can get healthy then he can easily replace the point production zbo provided (14ppg) and if you are looking at the rebounding then Davis has shown to be a good bet there.

 

Toughness, experience, and team identity will be the biggest loss from moving on from them. The last few years the team has played significant minutes with those guys in street clothes and we still won games.

 

Believe it or not JaMyke is one that is more difficult to replace due to his ability to shoot 3s and versatility on defense. We don't have an internal candidate that can replicate what he brings.

I think a lot of bigs out there in the three point shooting, quicker big mold in FA. Two Pat (already mentioned in this thread) Jonas jerebko, Ersan Ily (not an option really as far as defense), James johnson.

 

Since Davis will not be sharing the floor with Marc - at least I don't suspect he will - then he will not be able to fill Zbo rebounding void, IMO. Ultimately I suspect that either JaM or Zbo will be back but not both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PJ Tucker is a name that was brought up to me but I don't like him in the new system. James Johnson is an unrestricted FA I think he could be a decent Jam replacement and he fits the system

James Johnson can't shoot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PJ Tucker is a name that was brought up to me but I don't like him in the new system. James Johnson is an unrestricted FA I think he could be a decent Jam replacement and he fits the system

Dont want to be accused of being a "fanboy" but if we are talking about Parsons playing "stretch 4" (which IMO will be a failure against teams like Jazz, Spurs, current Clippers, current OKC, Cavs, Wizards) then JJ can do all this and would be reasonably priced. He had a very good season, maybe not as good as JaM on the 3s, but just as good if not slightly better on D, posting up.

 

But i dont see our FO being interested....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James Johnson can't shoot.

he looked like he was improved this season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In perfect Grizz style, we will try to trade Marc when he has little value.

 

I am expecting nothing from Wallace and crew.

 

I also expect us to be a borderline playoff team. Will depend on our health and how quick Denver and Minnesota jump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In perfect Grizz style, we will try to trade Marc when he has little value.

 

I am expecting nothing from Wallace and crew.

 

I also expect us to be a borderline playoff team. Will depend on our health and how quick Denver and Minnesota jump.

If they didn't trade Zach or tony they aint trading Marc when they say they're gonna ride it out that means until Mike and Marc are done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This season the "core 4" played more games than any of the last 4 seasons, yet only bettered last years injury plagued team by 1 victory.

For the first time in franchise history, the Grizzlies were last in the league in FG%.

 

If no changes are made this team will be in the lottery next year for sure, even with a healthy Parsons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This season the "core 4" played more games than any of the last 4 seasons, yet only bettered last years injury plagued team by 1 victory.

For the first time in franchise history, the Grizzlies were last in the league in FG%.

 

If no changes are made this team will be in the lottery next year for sure, even with a healthy Parsons.

Good point and one that is severely overlooked byoat folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a lot of bigs out there in the three point shooting, quicker big mold in FA. Two Pat (already mentioned in this thread) Jonas jerebko, Ersan Ily (not an option really as far as defense), James johnson.

 

Since Davis will not be sharing the floor with Marc - at least I don't suspect he will - then he will not be able to fill Zbo rebounding void, IMO. Ultimately I suspect that either JaM or Zbo will be back but not both.

I believe Pat Patterson and James Johnson would be solid JaMyke replacements but they will not come cheap are older and we don't have bird rights on them.

 

No reason to reinvent the wheel when we already have a proven player that is already familiar with system and show chemistry with our guys. Like I said previously why can't we reward guys that we have developed outside of the CORE4?

 

When is the last time we resigned an internal guy to a second contract outside CORE4? Qpon???

 

Zbo wasn't a monster on the boards this season anyway. JaM is a solid rebounder alongside Gasol and Davis can be one off the bench. Ennis is actually a good rebounder too from the wing spot. I am not worried about rebounding - I am intrigued by the rim-protection from DD and PickNRoll D from JaMyke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this