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We're About To See How Much The Organization Is Committed To Fizdale's Style Of Play

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chipc3    0

I think it was clear over the season that Zach wasn't the type of player Fizdale wanted to rely on but no one else seemed capable of stepping up into that role. Yes Fizdale played Z-Bo a lot against San Antonio's twin tower attack but he also sat him a lot. Zach barely averaged 24 minutes a night compared to Green's 27+ and many of those minutes were played at C rather than his preferred position of PF. 

Both of you are correct in other words but overall I side with the idea that Fizdale doesn't want a player like Zach paired with Gasol. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

I think it was clear over the season that Zach wasn't the type of player Fizdale wanted to rely on but no one else seemed capable of stepping up into that role. Yes Fizdale played Z-Bo a lot against San Antonio's twin tower attack but he also sat him a lot. Zach barely averaged 24 minutes a night compared to Green's 27+ and many of those minutes were played at C rather than his preferred position of PF. 

Both of you are correct in other words but overall I side with the idea that Fizdale doesn't want a player like Zach paired with Gasol. 

I don't agree with you much but i agree with you here. :ph34r:   Which is why no one should be surprised if Zbo moves on this offseason. 

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Ndq0327    0

Listen to the Vernon hollinger podcast Hollinger should be the GM

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chipc3    0
34 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I don't agree with you much but i agree with you here. :ph34r:   Which is why no one should be surprised if Zbo moves on this offseason. 

We agree that Z-Bo doesn't fit well with Fizdale's desires for his PF. We just disagree that losing Z-Bo won't have an immediate negative impact on the team. Hopefully Green returns, Martin and Davis matures, Rabb is better than I believe and Wright is moved to get a more impact-ready player for Fizdale's system. I would love to be wrong about this. 

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I think JaM is gone because I think some team will creatively structure a contract making it difficult to match.

If they lose all 4 free agents this will be one of the softest teams in the league.

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Father Pat    0
3 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I think JaM is gone because I think some team will creatively structure a contract making it difficult to match.

If they lose all 4 free agents this will be one of the softest teams in the league.

Very good point. It is more common now that teams add unobtainable incentives to make the bottom line of a contract out priced for other teams, especially teams near the luxury tax threshold. Grizzlies are set up to get screwed on this. Houston did this last season to the Nets. 

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2 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I think so far, the organization is committed to Fizdale's style of play

(the point of this thread)

I don't understand why. Actually, I don't understand what Fizdale's style of play is to be honest. If we mean up and down with more athletes, that makes sense but I would hope you have talent in addition to athleticism. There's tons of athletic guys in the D-League, excuse me, G-League that will never make it to the NBA. Having a roster where we rely on guys like BMac, Baldwin, Davis, Rabb, and Selden is asking for disaster because they don't know how to win in the NBA but hey, well, at least they are athletic I guess.

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3 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

I don't understand why. Actually, I don't understand what Fizdale's style of play is to be honest. If we mean up and down with more athletes, that makes sense but I would hope you have talent in addition to athleticism. There's tons of athletic guys in the D-League, excuse me, G-League that will never make it to the NBA. Having a roster where we rely on guys like BMac, Baldwin, Davis, Rabb, and Selden is asking for disaster because they don't know how to win in the NBA but hey, well, at least they are athletic I guess.

The only thing I associate fizz with right now is his ability to get Mike and Marc to play more aggressive basketball. But you are right, fizz doesn't have a style like Hollins had one. In fact, he only basically added 3 point shooting to what we have been doing more or less since hollins. 

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Ndq0327    0
44 minutes ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

I don't understand why. Actually, I don't understand what Fizdale's style of play is to be honest. If we mean up and down with more athletes, that makes sense but I would hope you have talent in addition to athleticism. There's tons of athletic guys in the D-League, excuse me, G-League that will never make it to the NBA. Having a roster where we rely on guys like BMac, Baldwin, Davis, Rabb, and Selden is asking for disaster because they don't know how to win in the NBA but hey, well, at least they are athletic I guess.

Well the three expensive max guys should be able to handle the knowing how yo win part.. That is what they are paid to do

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14 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Well the three expensive max guys should be able to handle the knowing how yo win part.. That is what they are paid to do

The "Big 3" of Conley, Parsons, and Gasol is really not that imposing nor that aggressive. They don't scare anyone. They need a lot of help and those 3 guys are not enough firepower to compete with what is going on in the West. 

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Ndq0327    0
14 hours ago, Notorious O.D.K. said:

The "Big 3" of Conley, Parsons, and Gasol is really not that imposing nor that aggressive. They don't scare anyone. They need a lot of help and those 3 guys are not enough firepower to compete with what is going on in the West. 

That's the thing they aren't here to compete just hopefully make the playoffs.  I think it's clear that Wallace is finally ready to start the rebuild. 

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I think we can now say that "the FO is committed to Fizdale's style of play."

Moving on from Tony and Zbo and adding more athletic dynamic players in Evans and Ben signals a move into a new era to me.  

I am pretty excited about this potential new phase and hope everyone will give it a chance before final judgement.  

If the major pieces are healthy i expect our defense and offense to improve and the team to be in the playoffs this season. 

 

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chipc3    0
9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think we can now say that "the FO is committed to Fizdale's style of play."

Moving on from Tony and Zbo and adding more athletic dynamic players in Evans and Ben signals a move into a new era to me.  

I am pretty excited about this potential new phase and hope everyone will give it a chance before final judgement.  

If the major pieces are healthy i expect our defense and offense to improve and the team to be in the playoffs this season. 

 

Does 'Major Pieces' mean Conley and Gasol or are you suggesting someone else is a major piece?  

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Does 'Major Pieces' mean Conley and Gasol or are you suggesting someone else is a major piece?  

Yep Parsons and Evans.   They count as major pieces.  Also resigning JaMyke.  

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chipc3    0
56 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yep Parsons and Evans.   They count as major pieces.  Also resigning JaMyke.  

So if JaMychal doesn't return does this throw off you major piece theory? For that matter, does a player that averaged 9 PPG and 7 RPG constitute a major piece that could derail a playoff push?

Parsons was here last season and clearly wasn't a positive impact. What type of production would he have to rise up to constitute a 'major piece?'

Evans has played 65 games in two seasons. How many games and what type of production are needed for him to reach 'major piece' status in your eyes? 

I'm trying to figure out what you mean when you make these comments or is it enough that their names are on the roster and production doesn't matter in your mind? I remember you said earlier this summer that Z-Bo, TA and Carter didn't move the needle much in regards to making the playoffs so perhaps a 'major piece' for you doesn't have to move the needle either. 

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GF#1    0
On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:59 AM, GF#1 said:

If the Grizzlies re-sign TA, Zbo, and the rest. And patch the team with lower level FA's, then they are doing a huge dis-service to Fizdale and what he's trying to do here.

 

But if they are truly committed to the guy they brought in last summer, you will see some aggressive moves this summer. And moves that go against the grain of what we've known the Grizzlies to be for the past 7 seasons.

 

Honestly, if it's up to Fizdale, I don't think TA nor Zbo would return. And maybe Gasol would be moved for a package of players that fit better. But if they do come back, I think it sort of undermines what Fiz is trying to accomplish, and that would be quite disappointing for me.

The moves we've made haven't been necessarily "aggressive", but the team is definitely going in a direction that I feel was necessary. Not re-signing TA and Zbo was a good start.

I think the organization is clearly committed to what Fizdale is trying to do, and I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

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chipc3    0
3 minutes ago, GF#1 said:

The moves we've made haven't been necessarily "aggressive", but the team is definitely going in a direction that I feel was necessary. Not re-signing TA and Zbo was a good start.

I think the organization is clearly committed to what Fizdale is trying to do, and I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

I'm nervously anxious. I want to believe and I hope Evans is a positive, Parsons returns in better shape to contribute, Ben McLemore shows the promise he showed coming out of college and the Grizzlies front line gets worked out but I am very nervous this is just wishful thinking. 

Last season I hoped Conley and Gasol would be healthy most of the season, that Parsons would be the missing link that elevated the team and that the youth would develop. It didn't happen exactly as planned but Conley and Gasol were healthy enough to maintain a middle of the road record. Those two have proven to be the only main pieces the team has right now and their health is paramount to a playoff season this year because even the most optimistic outlook for the rest of the team isn't playoff quality without Conley and Gasol. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

So if JaMychal doesn't return does this throw off you major piece theory? For that matter, does a player that averaged 9 PPG and 7 RPG constitute a major piece that could derail a playoff push?

Parsons was here last season and clearly wasn't a positive impact. What type of production would he have to rise up to constitute a 'major piece?'

Evans has played 65 games in two seasons. How many games and what type of production are needed for him to reach 'major piece' status in your eyes? 

I'm trying to figure out what you mean when you make these comments or is it enough that their names are on the roster and production doesn't matter in your mind? I remember you said earlier this summer that Z-Bo, TA and Carter didn't move the needle much in regards to making the playoffs so perhaps a 'major piece' for you doesn't have to move the needle either. 

Yep I expect Parsons, JaM, and Evans to be major contributors or pieces next season that will compliment Mike and Marc.   Those three will have important roles on the roster this upcoming season.  

Parsons: Secondary Ballhandler and scoring threat to alleviate Mike

JaMyke: Primary rebounder and defender for the starting unit

Tyreke: 6th man scorer/playmaker and potentially backup PG

If you want to argue those points feel free.

Season hasn't started yet so i can't judge them on their production yet.  I understand that is a difficult concept for you.

Obviously if JaM doesn't resign he can't be a Major piece, my bad for assuming you understood that.   

2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

If the major pieces are healthy i expect our defense and offense to improve and the team to be in the playoffs this season. 

Read again slowly and understand the criteria i put forth in order for my statements to be true.     Ahh hell i'll just say it again because i don't trust you to get it. 

If MIke + Marc + Chandler + Tyreke + JaMyke are all back and healthy; i expect the team to improve offensively and defensively and get into the playoffs. 

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chipc3    0

So now you are saying that it takes more than just Conley and Gasol to make the playoffs. I agree with that.

I also agree that a resigned JaM, Parsons and Evans are important pieces although I don't believe they are major pieces. It will take all three of these players plus Selden or McLemore, Ennis and Harrison contributing nightly for the team to get close to the playoffs. It will take someone other than Gasol and JaMychal Green to step up and play consistent minutes inside for the team to be assured a playoff spot in the West. 

Hopefully the Knee Op Boys return to form. I am nervous about this however because I don't know of any player in any sport who has returned to previous form after three knee operations. The Grizzlies will need two to do so this year. 

Now you admit that Conley and Gasol probably can't do it alone.

What worries me is all your expectations. How confident should people be that Parsons will be the secondary ball-handler despite his 3rd knee surgery in 3 years and clearly being hampered by his second surgery last season? How confident should fans be that JaM will become an impactful rebounder (and not just the 'primary rebounder' on a bad rebounding team) when he barely averaged 7.1 RPG last season and only 3.3 RPG in the playoffs? How confident should fans be that Tyreke Evans will be effective as a back up PG after his knee problems and only playing 65 games over the last two seasons? How confident should fans be that Evans can even be the backup PG and leading scorer off the bench in the first place? He hasn't played PG in years after all. He wasn't playing PG in New Orleans or the last few years in Sacramento. 

As I have said, I hope my fears are misplaced but I feel that some worry is warranted right now especially when I hear someone making statements ignoring these legitimate concerns.  

GTF- It doesn't matter how many times you ask me to read what you write (and I'd appreciate you being a little less condescending in your answers). Common sense tells me that you are making a ton of leaps of faith to reach your conclusions and not listening to the people who are concerned about the status of this team. In your world Marc Gasol isn't an injury risk despite breaking his foot just 18 months ago and starting the season at 32 years of age. Conley isn't an injury risk despite breaking his back last season and breaking down almost every year from too much of a load being put on his back. 

Let's put this in perspective. You say that:

Quote

If MIke + Marc + Chandler + Tyreke + JaMyke are all back and healthy; i expect the team to improve offensively and defensively and get into the playoffs. 

Every one of your IF's are risks and all five of them have to be answered positively for the team to get improve and get into the playoffs. That's a lot of ifs. 

 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

So now you are saying that it takes more than just Conley and Gasol to make the playoffs. I agree with that. I also agree that a resigned JaM, Parsons and Evans are important pieces although I don't believe they are major pieces. Hopefully the knee Op boys return to form. I am nervous about this however because I don't know of any player in any sport who has returned to previous form after three knee operations. The Grizzlies will need two to do so this year. 

Now you admit that Conley and Gasol probably can't do it alone.

What worries me is all your expectations. How confident should people be that Parsons will be the secondary ball-handler despite his 3rd knee surgery in 3 years and clearly being hampered by his second surgery last season? How confident should fans be that JaM will become an impactful rebounder (and not just the 'primary rebounder' on a bad rebounding team) when he barely averaged 7.1 RPG last season and only 3.3 RPG in the playoffs? How confident should fans be that Tyreke Evans will be effective as a back up PG after his knee problems and only playing 65 games over the last two seasons? How confident should fans be that Evans can even be the backup PG and leading scorer off the bench in the first place? He hasn't played PG in years after all. He wasn't playing PG in New Orleans or the last few years in Sacramento. 

As I have said, I hope my fears are misplaced but I feel that some worry is warranted right now especially when I hear someone making statements ignoring these legitimate concerns.  

But that's just it I have never ignored that concern.  Go back and reread majority of my statements (sure you already have).  The caveat i always put forth is "If Healthy".    So of course if none of them are healthy then yes throw all of that out of the window.  

What i was debating Dwash about was the talent, fit, and ability of Evans.   My expectations are all realistic and in line with what the guys have actually produced in the league.  Tyreke has been a starting PG avg double digits points.  Chandler has been a secondary ballhandler and scorer in the NBA.   JaMyke was our starting PF last season and the primary rebounder and defender for that unit. 

if i was spouting how Ben and Wayne would avg 25ppg each and our ceiling is Conf Finals - then maybe you would have a point. 

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chipc3    0
39 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

But that's just it I have never ignored that concern.  Go back and reread majority of my statements (sure you already have).  The caveat i always put forth is "If Healthy".    So of course if none of them are healthy then yes throw all of that out of the window.  

What i was debating Dwash about was the talent, fit, and ability of Evans.   My expectations are all realistic and in line with what the guys have actually produced in the league.  Tyreke has been a starting PG avg double digits points.  Chandler has been a secondary ballhandler and scorer in the NBA.   JaMyke was our starting PF last season and the primary rebounder and defender for that unit. 

if i was spouting how Ben and Wayne would avg 25ppg each and our ceiling is Conf Finals - then maybe you would have a point. 

Tyreke hasn't played PG in years. You need to be honest about this. That is not a realistic expectation for Evans. Maybe helping bringing the ball up the court but not defending the point. He's had multiple knee surgeries after all.

Your expectations of JaMychal suddenly becoming an impactful rebounder is not realistic either in my opinion. There is nothing we have seen from JaMychal yet to assume he should be the lead rebounder on a playoff team. He averaged 3.3 rebounds in last season's playoffs. He's a 6-9 PF which is undersized at that position even in the stretch four offense. 

It's not realistic to assume Parsons will return to the level of play that allowed him to be the secondary ball-handler in Dallas and Houston. He's had 3 knee surgeries and was not capable of doing it last season before injuring his other knee. 

Can you name two players who have returned to previous form after 3 knee surgeries? Can you name one? To assume both will on this team is not realistic. 

I am sorry. I would love to believe all your dreams for this team are realistic but they are all big reaches for players with major question marks entering the season. 

I will be there next season cheering for you to be right and all my concerns be washed away as we see Tyreke and Parsons return to their form from 3-4 years ago, that JaMychal suddenly becomes an impactful rebounder and the rest as I have always been a supporter of the team that wears Memphis on its chest. However, right now I think a bit of apprehension is in order. 

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Michael D    0

There's a lot of IFs but the wing situation, or at least SG may finally get fixed. Tyreke, BMac, and Seldon, though all have question marks, are going to be put in a situation to succeed.  If even one of them pans out the Grizzlies will finally have a scorer who can take some of the load off of Mike and Marc.

Most everyone on here has complained about Marc's lack of aggression or desire to step up and be the alpha scorer that this team needs.  If Parsons or some combo of the players previously mentioned can man down the SF and SG positions, we will be making the playoffs and potentially getting out of the first round.

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Silverllama    0

The Grizzlies are a good rebounding team. Any idea to the contrary is lacked of understanding about rebounding.

People look at average rebound per game and then they assume, this represents how good/bad a team is at rebounding. This is false.

As rebounding depend on the opportunity to rebound. Which is not equal across teams.

The grizzlies were top 10 on both defensive rebound rate, and least offensive rebounds rate by opponent.

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chipc3    0
4 minutes ago, Silverllama said:

The Grizzlies are a good rebounding team. Any idea to the contrary is is lacked of understanding about rebounding.

People look at average rebound per game and then they assume, this represents how good/bad a team is at rebounding. This is false.

As rebounding depend on the opportunity to rebound. Which is not equal across teams.

The grizzlies were top 10 on both defensive rebound rate, and least offensive rebounds rate by opponent.

Were did you get these stats from? ESPN stats show a slightly different picture. In now way do I take ESPN as a gospel on sports stats of course. It was just the first I saw. 

And welcome to the boards. 

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