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We're About To See How Much The Organization Is Committed To Fizdale's Style Of Play

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22 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

I'd have to say it then falls squarely on the shoulders of Wallace, and he would have to do some major moves. To me, this team played way over it's head to get to 43 wins while being the worst shooting team in the league for the first time in franchise history. I'm sure Wallace finally realizes that another season of maintaining the status quo will be a sure fire way of getting a lottery pick. I just wonder if the F.O. as a whole will rather allow the team to crash and burn before making the changes that they need to.

So if you are a top 10 shooting team, you are a playoff team?

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16 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

So if you are a top 10 shooting team, you are a playoff team?

Having a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that being the worst shooting team in the league is not a good thing?

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Just now, Father Pat said:

Having a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that being the worst shooting team in the league is not a good thing?

I'm just trying to point out that basketball is more than just a game of shooting percentage. I also think that using shooting percentage to indicate the entire worth of our players and team is disingenuous at best.

 

The grizzlies are moving to a more 3 point oriented offense. It's going to be a struggle, after years of mucking it up in the paint.

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2 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I'm just trying to point out that basketball is more than just a game of shooting percentage. I also think that using shooting percentage to indicate the entire worth of our players and team is disingenuous at best.

 

The grizzlies are moving to a more 3 point oriented offense. It's going to be a struggle, after years of mucking it up in the paint.

There is no getting around the fact that whoever is better at making their shots usually wins, especially when talking about the extreme ends of best and worst. You gotta' put the ball in the hole.

Also, as you put it, "after years of mucking it up in the paint" you would think that they'd be better at making their 2 pt field goals. They were last. Trying to spin it as you are is being disingenuous, not me pointing out the fact of their poor shooting. Poor shooting teams usually don't do well and good shooting teams usually do. That is undeniable.

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18 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

There is no getting around the fact that whoever is better at making their shots usually wins, especially when talking about the extreme ends of best and worst. You gotta' put the ball in the hole.

Also, as you put it, "after years of mucking it up in the paint" you would think that they'd be better at making their 2 pt field goals. They were last. Trying to spin it as you are is being disingenuous, not me pointing out the fact of their poor shooting. Poor shooting teams usually don't do well and good shooting teams usually do. That is undeniable.

I'm not going to go round and round with you. T-wolves, 8th in fg%, managed 31 wins. Nuggets, 6th in fg%, managed 40 wins. Milwaukee, 4th in fg%, managed 42 wins. They are all out of the playoffs.

 

And the reason why the grizzlies are better than these teams is because the grizzlies know how to execute down the stretch and play halfcourt basketball. You get any of these teams in the halfcourt it is over. That's not spin, it's fact.

 

This is also why the grizzlies can beat teams with so much more talent than them, because the grizzlies are one of the best half-court teams in the league, probably top 2, and they can make teams like the warriors look silly in the half-court.

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9 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

I'm not going to go round and round with you. T-wolves, 8th in fg%, managed 31 wins. Nuggets, 6th in fg%, managed 40 wins. Milwaukee, 4th in fg%, managed 42 wins. They are all out of the playoffs.

 

And the reason why the grizzlies are better than these teams is because the grizzlies know how to execute down the stretch and play halfcourt basketball. You get any of these teams in the halfcourt it is over. That's not spin, it's fact.

 

This is also why the grizzlies can beat teams with so much more talent than them, because the grizzlies are one of the best half-court teams in the league, probably top 2, and they can make teams like the warriors look silly in the half-court.

Has the worst shooting team in the league ever won a championship? Made it to their conference finals? Won a playoff series? Oh wait, the T-Wolves were 8th in FG% but only managed 31 wins....now look over here, Nuggets were 6th in FG% and won 3 less games than the Grizzlies. SO WHAT???  What the heck do they have to do with the Grizzlies being the worst shooting team in the league? About the same as they have to do with the Warriors being the best shooting team in the league.

...but at least we have a good half court game!!! Looks like the worst shooting team just found out no matter how good your defense is you still have to score more than your opponent. Who would have thought that? It is beyond moronic to argue that being the worst shooting team is not so bad, but I'm sure you will try.

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59 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Has the worst shooting team in the league ever won a championship? Made it to their conference finals? Won a playoff series? Oh wait, the T-Wolves were 8th in FG% but only managed 31 wins....now look over here, Nuggets were 6th in FG% and won 3 less games than the Grizzlies. SO WHAT???  What the heck do they have to do with the Grizzlies being the worst shooting team in the league? About the same as they have to do with the Warriors being the best shooting team in the league.

...but at least we have a good half court game!!! Looks like the worst shooting team just found out no matter how good your defense is you still have to score more than your opponent. Who would have thought that? It is beyond moronic to argue that being the worst shooting team is not so bad, but I'm sure you will try.

Talent wins championships. It is absolutely not the grizzlies fault that the nba is an entertainment league and that you can have 1 team with 4 all-stars, playing a team with 3 all-stars in the finals.

I'm not sure what you expect, surely you aren't naïve enough to believe that the warriors' system is the reason why they have only been trailing in a game for less than 5 minutes the entire playoffs.

 

It's like saying that the Wildcats have a better style than the Tigers and that's why they get 8 five star recruits ever year. Am I delusional enough to believe that the grizzlies are close to a championship? No. But you seem to be delusional enough to believe that there is some alternate universe where teams like the warriors and other "sexy" destinations won't always have that advantage.

There is a reason the grizzlies have never gotten the #1 draft pick in the nba. Why is it that only 6 teams in the last 30 years have won a title? It's because when there is a Lebron James that comes along, he won't be playing for the Memphis grizzlies.

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7 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Talent wins championships. It is absolutely not the grizzlies fault that the nba is an entertainment league and that you can have 1 team with 4 all-stars, playing a team with 3 all-stars in the finals.

I'm not sure what you expect, surely you aren't naïve enough to believe that the warriors' system is the reason why they have only been trailing in a game for less than 5 minutes the entire playoffs.

 

It's like saying that the Wildcats have a better style than the Tigers and that's why they get 8 five star recruits ever year. Am I delusional enough to believe that the grizzlies are close to a championship? No. But you seem to be delusional enough to believe that there is some alternate universe where teams like the warriors and other "sexy" destinations won't always have that advantage.

There is a reason the grizzlies have never gotten the #1 draft pick in the nba. Why is it that only 6 teams in the last 30 years have won a title? It's because when there is a Lebron James that comes along, he won't be playing for the Memphis grizzlies.

Babble much? Come on back from left field. High FG% is good. Low FG% not good. Got it?

 

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41 minutes ago, Father Pat said:

Babble much? Come on back from left field. High FG% is good. Low FG% not good. Got it?

 

 

And how, according to you, specifically, do we improve that. I want names. Incidentally, I would be fine trying to increase our shooting percentage, but I don't share your opinion that our team needs to be replaced to accomplish that, like you apparently do.

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23 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

 

And how, according to you, specifically, do we improve that. I want names. Incidentally, I would be fine trying to increase our shooting percentage, but I don't share your opinion that our team needs to be replaced to accomplish that, like you apparently do.

I'm so glad that you would be fine with the Grizzlies trying to increase their shooting percentage. What the heck, they've got no place to go but up, right?

Oh, and thanks for explaining to me that my opinion is the team needs to be replaced to increase their shooting percentage. That never occurred to me, but as we all know, you certainly know what you're talking about. I don't know what I'd do without you giving me a fictitious opinion. Many thanks.

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I agree with Father Pat that the team's pathetic field goal percentages are a huge reason the team failed to live up to expectations of some posters. It is very difficult to win a championship if you are the worst shooting team in the league. 

This raises the obvious question of why did the team shoot so poorly? Was it because they were forced out of their previous comfort zones in Fizdale's new offense and with more time to become adjusted they will improve? Was it because he played a larger number of players on rookie deals and out of the D-League this season than previously and their performance should improve with more experience? Was it because the Core 4 players shot worse and this is a trend to be aware of? Was it a lack of familiarity with each other and the new offense that created poor shots? 

Simply stating the fact that the team was not shooting well isn't an answer. How you perceive the reasons for the poor shooting will likely dictate what direction the team needs to go moving forward. 

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45 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I agree with Father Pat that the team's pathetic field goal percentages are a huge reason the team failed to live up to expectations of some posters. It is very difficult to win a championship if you are the worst shooting team in the league. 

This raises the obvious question of why did the team shoot so poorly? Was it because they were forced out of their previous comfort zones in Fizdale's new offense and with more time to become adjusted they will improve? Was it because he played a larger number of players on rookie deals and out of the D-League this season than previously and their performance should improve with more experience? Was it because the Core 4 players shot worse and this is a trend to be aware of? Was it a lack of familiarity with each other and the new offense that created poor shots? 

Simply stating the fact that the team was not shooting well isn't an answer. How you perceive the reasons for the poor shooting will likely dictate what direction the team needs to go moving forward. 

Nobody disagrees with pat that shooting percentage needs to be better. But if he is so worried about Wallace's role in it, he probably needs to add Fizdale to his list of concerns, Wallace brought fizdale in, but I doubt he wants to put the blame on fizdale's new offense. I'm sure he'd rather put it on Wallace and all the players he wants gone from the team.

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What was one of the big advantages of shooting more 3's? In theory it spreads the floor out, allowing for more activity in the lane. Look deeper into the Grizzlies dismal shooting and you find that the team was 9th in the league for percentage of layups taken. That's not bad. What is bad is the fact that the Grizzlies were last in the league for FG% at the rim.

Basketball 101, you have to make your high percentage two's. With the floor more open this season, there is less excuse for not finishing well at the rim. How fans "perceive the reasons for the poor shooting" is irrelevant. The fans don't make or miss layups. It is a simple matter. The lane was more open this season and the Grizzlies were terrible at finishing at the rim. That obviously points at some players lack of fundamental ability. The general manager is responsible for acquiring the players. Fizdale getting the team to 43 wins with such poor shooting, in my opinion, is a testament to his good coaching ability. It is on Wallace's shoulders to acquire players to help the team to succeed.

Fanboys can't handle the truth. If a player is shooting 22% from 3 pt range, it is easy to say he shouldn't shoot 3's. When a fan favorite becomes too old and slow and can't make an open layup (or is worse at it), getting rid of him is blasphemy.

To answer Chips question as to why the team shot so poorly, a rookie and some aging players in their decline is the short answer.

KBM, get over yourself.

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I feel friz will help the grizzlies get some good F.E

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that  RANT he had in the play-off will help the grizzlies with F.E

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So which current Grizz (own FA included) actually can fit Fizz vision for this team?   I guess best way to start is actually figure out what is Fiz's vision for this team??

I have heard him mention;  more play-making, quicker pace, and more spacing, switchable versatile defenders, 3pt shooting, and better conditioning.  

Guys who could fit that criteria currently or potentially:

Mike Conley 

Wayne Selden

JaMyke Green

Deyonta Davis

Wade Baldwin

Brandan Wright

Jarrell Martin

James Ennis

Troy Daniels

Andrew Harrison

Chandler Parsons (healthy)

 

Unfortunately, most of those guys are still in the "potential" side of the equation so a lot of work will need to be done to get this roster up to speed.   That will not happen in one offseason.  To be fair the transition was started last summer with the additions of Ennis, Daniels and Parsons.    

 

 

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TA and Zach in "limited roles" will never occur as long as they're on the team. And that's a big problem.

Z-bo had his highest usage as a Grizzly. 2nd highest of his career.

Because Fizz didn't want to "hide him on offense", and he foolishly gave him more responsibility, Tony had a career high in FGA.

Neither fit coach's vision.

But then again, Fizz needs to develop a consistent style of play and get the guys to be fully committed, because the offense went in too many different directions. I didn't know what the hell they were trying run.

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8 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

So which current Grizz (own FA included) actually can fit Fizz vision for this team?   I guess best way to start is actually figure out what is Fiz's vision for this team??

I have heard him mention;  more play-making, quicker pace, and more spacing, switchable versatile defenders, 3pt shooting, and better conditioning.  

Guys who could fit that criteria currently or potentially:

Mike Conley 

Wayne Selden

JaMyke Green

Deyonta Davis

Wade Baldwin

Brandan Wright

Jarrell Martin

James Ennis

Troy Daniels

Andrew Harrison

Chandler Parsons (healthy)

 

Unfortunately, most of those guys are still in the "potential" side of the equation so a lot of work will need to be done to get this roster up to speed.   That will not happen in one offseason.  To be fair the transition was started last summer with the additions of Ennis, Daniels and Parsons.    

 

 

Daniels and Wright need to be removed from the list. And I still think the grizzlies should keep: tony, zbo and vince around. They are too valuable as teaching tools.

 

If Parsons contract was up, I'd want him off the team too. I crave the grizzlies to start running more, and zbo, vince, ta really ain't that. But still signing those guys can only help our younger players.

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8 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Daniels and Wright need to be removed from the list. And I still think the grizzlies should keep: tony, zbo and vince around. They are too valuable as teaching tools.

 

If Parsons contract was up, I'd want him off the team too. I crave the grizzlies to start running more, and zbo, vince, ta really ain't that. But still signing those guys can only help our younger players.

I don't mean any harm but who has zbo and TA took under their wings?  I can see VC being helpful in that way.  But I've never thought of Zach and Tony to be the mentoring type.

 

You have some attachment issues with the past its time to let it go. I think of our 4 FA we should only bring two back and I think it should be Jam and VC.  If VC wants to finish his career elsewhere then it should be Jam and Zach

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11 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Daniels and Wright need to be removed from the list. And I still think the grizzlies should keep: tony, zbo and vince around. They are too valuable as teaching tools.

 

If Parsons contract was up, I'd want him off the team too. I crave the grizzlies to start running more, and zbo, vince, ta really ain't that. But still signing those guys can only help our younger players.

Daniels and Wright fit the mold Fiz is looking for.   Wright is athletic and switchable on defense and Daniels is a 3pt gunner.  TD may be limited as a defender and playmaker but he is only 25yrs old so there is potential for him to grow.   

Zbo and TA are what they are at this point and keeping them also keeps us stuck in the past.   Vince has the skillset to fit into Fiz new system its only his age that is a hindrance.  

 

It's time to rip off that band-aid and let Zbo and Tony walk.   That doesn't mean they can't have their jerseys hanging from the rafters one day. 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Daniels and Wright fit the mold Fiz is looking for.   Wright is athletic and switchable on defense and Daniels is a 3pt gunner.  TD may be limited as a defender and playmaker but he is only 25yrs old so there is potential for him to grow.   

Zbo and TA are what they are at this point and keeping them also keeps us stuck in the past.   Vince has the skillset to fit into Fiz new system its only his age that is a hindrance.  

 

It's time to rip off that band-aid and let Zbo and Tony walk.   That doesn't mean they can't have their jerseys hanging from the rafters one day. 

If they fit the mold, they would have played more in the playoffs. Daniels can't guard his position, and Wright seemed to be forgotten when it counted most. If wright can't get into a playoff series with as much experience as he already had, then clearly he ain't in fizdale's plans. 

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

I don't mean any harm but who has zbo and TA took under their wings?  I can see VC being helpful in that way.  But I've never thought of Zach and Tony to be the mentoring type.

 

You have some attachment issues with the past its time to let it go. I think of our 4 FA we should only bring two back and I think it should be Jam and VC.  If VC wants to finish his career elsewhere then it should be Jam and Zach

I now believe that zbo should only come back if Gasol is gone.   It's time to really start developing Davis and see what Martin can do.  That will be impossible if JaMyke, Gasol, and Zbo were all back.    Trading Wright and letting Zbo walk still gives us a 4 Big rotation of Gasol, JaM, DD, and Martin.   On paper those guys have the physical profiles and skillsets to excel in Fiz system.   Also keep in mind that if Chandler is healthy at all his new best fit will be at PF.    JaMyke is going to get paid so gone are the days where he is only playing 20mpg - i expect that to be bumped up to atleast 27mpg.  

 

Zbo won't be happy sitting on the bench as the 10th man and neither will his fans.  So unfortunately he needs to go. 

 

Echoing your earlier point - Gasol and Vince were mentioned as the guys that have taken Deyonta under their wings.   Harrison has stated that Conley has done the same with him.   Rarely hear that about Zbo and TA outside of saying that they have a big brother type of relationship with certain younger players. 

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2 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

If they fit the mold, they would have played more in the playoffs. Daniels can't guard his position, and Wright seemed to be forgotten when it counted most. If wright can't get into a playoff series with as much experience as he already had, then clearly he ain't in fizdale's plans. 

That was just a matchup issue and Daniels got much more playing time towards the end of the series.  

Keep in mind i am only speaking in terms of potential, physical profile, and skillsets.    If i was solely going by playing time then Baldwin and Martin wouldn't qualify either. 

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30 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That was just a matchup issue and Daniels got much more playing time towards the end of the series.  

Keep in mind i am only speaking in terms of potential, physical profile, and skillsets.    If i was solely going by playing time then Baldwin and Martin wouldn't qualify either. 

Come on man. Daniels and Wright are what they are. Baldwin and Martin still have a ton of potential. If wright can't get into the playoff rotation that is damning. Daniels is a specialist that doesn't quite fit the team due to his lack of innerchangabilty on defense.

I also think that Fiz was happy with the progress of our 3 point shooting without Daniels. 

 

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