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It's Time To Talk About Marc Gasol

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3 hours ago, Dwash said:

I said "possibly" made roster adjustments for him. There are some that believe that Zbo was ditched partly because he had become a poor fit with Gasol and that he needed more athletic bigs. That TA's lack of shooting was a hinderance on the Marc/Mike pnr play.  That the team should be built around them with more playmakers such as Evans/Parsons and more shooters such as McLemore. Were you honestly unaware of these theories? Again, not that these moves succeeded.

 

Sounds like a Fizdale theory to me.

Strongly advocated and supported by some on the boards here.

I'll be nice and not name them :P

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11 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

It was people like YOU who were saying he was a cornerstone and franchise player, not me.  Don't deny that you campaigned for the team to build around Marc and Mike because you were posting about it for like two years.  There are different levels of role players.  Sure, he's better than Ennis, that doesn't mean he's a superstar who is going to carry a scrub team plagued by injuries and inexperience.  Just because he is one of the best players on the team doesn't make him a superstar.  He's not.  He's very good, but he isn't ever going to carry a team as the guy, IMO.  I don't think Memphis has ever had a superstar, maybe Z-bo was closest, but not there.  The problem is that there are a lot of guys like you with unrealistic expectations.

Cmon Smit go listen to Chris Wallace interviews.  He said Mike and Marc ARE OUR Cornerstone and Franchise players.   So have Hollinger and every other Grizz PR person.   The coaches said it as well.  I wasn't standing outside the Forum with banners and getting petitions signed to make them the franchise players.   They were already anointed that by the organization.  

  When did i ever say Gasol was a Superstar???  Don't go changing the narrative again.  Role Player to SuperStar is a huge jump.   Right now only LeBron, Durant, Harden and maybe Westbrook qualify for SuperStar status. 

 He and Conley are the "Stars" of our team.   We have murals of Gasol in the city!   That is not done for a guy considered a "role player".  Like it or not the expectations of Max paid Franchise players are more than "role players".    He has All NBA, multiple AllStar appearances and DPOY accolades yet i am not supposed to expect more from him than i do the average role player???

Comparing him to Pau is good.  Because Pau was not a "role player" either.   Dude was the second best player on a championship team.  That makes him at least Star status.  Sorry but max paid guys do not get the luxury of just being "role players".    You can argue all day about his ability but that fat check comes with expectations. 

Besides no one was expecting Gasol to make us a championship team by himself.   Like DWash has been stating - he is supposed to at least be expected to keep us a competitive team.  Sorry but You are the only one with unrealistic expectations.  if you are saying that the guy labeled by the franchise as its cornerstone that paid him max money is only expected to be a "role player". 

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To begin, Gasol's injury was addressed in the statement by Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace as follows:

"Marc remains a cornerstone of our franchise and we are pleased to hear that the surgery went according to plan," Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace said in a statement. "Marc's determination and competitive spirit will serve him, his family and the team well as he begins the healing and rehab process from which we expect him to make a full recovery.

"We are confident we will have Marc back anchoring our team next season and beyond."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshbenjamin/2016/02/23/is-marc-gasols-foot-injury-a-sign-of-things-to-come/#294788bd16ce

To Conley, that's what makes this upcoming season exciting even as he says that grit and grind mindset remains.

"It doesn't mean the way we play by any means, not anymore," Conley said. "I think the mindset is still to be tough, to be mentally stronger than your opponent, to not get rattled. And on the court, we're going to transition to a different style of play, a different team. That's it."

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20170925/sports/309259836

An argument can probably be made that Conley was more of a driving force to changing things than gasol.  But we will probably never know for sure. 

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Might be easier if we agree that there's a thing between "role player" and "superstar". 

Let's call it "ace" for the moment. 
Marc's an ace. So is Pau. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was an ace.  Conley probably is too. 
ZBo? Yep, in his prime. Paul Millsap was one for many years. Horford maybe. 
A healthy Parsons is - or was - an ace. 
Always getting some allstar votes, rarely making the team. 
Often the best player on a mid-level team. 
Fair chance of having his jersey number retired if he is lucky enough to have a long career.

When you don't HAVE a superstar, you have to resist the urge to expect superstar play from an ace. 
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TimBC said:

Might be easier if we agree that there's a thing between "role player" and "superstar". 

Let's call it "ace" for the moment. 
Marc's an ace. So is Pau. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was an ace.  Conley probably is too. 
ZBo? Yep, in his prime. Paul Millsap was one for many years. Horford maybe. 
A healthy Parsons is - or was - an ace. 
Always getting some allstar votes, rarely making the team. 
Often the best player on a mid-level team. 
Fair chance of having his jersey number retired if he is lucky enough to have a long career.

When you don't HAVE a superstar, you have to resist the urge to expect superstar play from an ace. 
 

 

 

They need to not pamper him like a superstar then.  The difference between a lot of those, Zbo as the obvious one, is leadership.  You don't have to be a superstar to be a leader. You don't have to be an Ace even.  But when you're the longest tenured player on the team as a Grizzly, it should be a given.

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Marc was passive last night. I've seen him eat LA's lunch in year's past. He's killed DeAndre Jordan several times. Pitiful. 

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Cmon Smit go listen to Chris Wallace interviews.  He said Mike and Marc ARE OUR Cornerstone and Franchise players.   So have Hollinger and every other Grizz PR person.   The coaches said it as well.  I wasn't standing outside the Forum with banners and getting petitions signed to make them the franchise players.   They were already anointed that by the organization.  

Wallace has a job to sell the team to the fans.  I don't really care what he says because I know what he's doing.  If we were able to get a Magic, Bird, MJ, LBJ type player he wouldn't be saying that about a player of Marc or Mike's caliber, but he has to sell what he has or the team will be a failure financially.

  When did i ever say Gasol was a Superstar???  Don't go changing the narrative again.  Role Player to SuperStar is a huge jump.   Right now only LeBron, Durant, Harden and maybe Westbrook qualify for SuperStar status. 

I didn't say that you said he was a superstar.  I was merely pointing out that he is not, but your expectations of him seem to be superstar performance from the tenor of your posts.

 He and Conley are the "Stars" of our team.   We have murals of Gasol in the city!   That is not done for a guy considered a "role player".  Like it or not the expectations of Max paid Franchise players are more than "role players".    He has All NBA, multiple AllStar appearances and DPOY accolades yet i am not supposed to expect more from him than i do the average role player???

Okay, here I will concede to you and Dwash that it is sort of silly for me to refer to Gasol as just a role player and I guess it even sells Gasol short too.  He is a multiple time All-Star in the league so my representation is inaccurate.  He is a star, NOT a superstar, especially when you consider that the typical star or superstar is an elite scorer in the league, but yes, he is a star.  However, I still do not think that Marc is the kind of player who is going to put the team on his back and carry it for extended stretches.  He has done it in the past, but usually for brief stretches and when he is on a hot streak.  His game is best when it feeds off of other players, and with the loss of other important key pieces, i.e. Z-bo, Mike, Vince, and TA has made it a difficult struggle this season.

Comparing him to Pau is good.  Because Pau was not a "role player" either.   Dude was the second best player on a championship team.  That makes him at least Star status.  Sorry but max paid guys do not get the luxury of just being "role players".    You can argue all day about his ability but that fat check comes with expectations. 

Still, Pau has been much more of a scoring threat throughout his career.

Besides no one was expecting Gasol to make us a championship team by himself.   Like DWash has been stating - he is supposed to at least be expected to keep us a competitive team.  Sorry but You are the only one with unrealistic expectations.  if you are saying that the guy labeled by the franchise as its cornerstone that paid him max money is only expected to be a "role player". 

I disagree.  No player short of a genuine superstar is going to make this group a winner, unless they really get some chemistry together, and that takes time.

 

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5 hours ago, TimBC said:

Might be easier if we agree that there's a thing between "role player" and "superstar". 

Let's call it "ace" for the moment. 
Marc's an ace. So is Pau. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was an ace.  Conley probably is too. 
ZBo? Yep, in his prime. Paul Millsap was one for many years. Horford maybe. 
A healthy Parsons is - or was - an ace. 
Always getting some allstar votes, rarely making the team. 
Often the best player on a mid-level team. 
Fair chance of having his jersey number retired if he is lucky enough to have a long career.

When you don't HAVE a superstar, you have to resist the urge to expect superstar play from an ace. 
 

 

 

You're right, Tim, and I clarified my thoughts a bit (I hope), however, I just used the term "star". (though I hate that term now. Have you noticed how many NBA players you hardly even heard of are referred to as "star" when they make the news for something other than basketball?)

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Cmon Smit go listen to Chris Wallace interviews.  He said Mike and Marc ARE OUR Cornerstone and Franchise players.   So have Hollinger and every other Grizz PR person.   The coaches said it as well.  I wasn't standing outside the Forum with banners and getting petitions signed to make them the franchise players.   They were already anointed that by the organization.  

  When did i ever say Gasol was a Superstar???  Don't go changing the narrative again.  Role Player to SuperStar is a huge jump.   Right now only LeBron, Durant, Harden and maybe Westbrook qualify for SuperStar status. 

 He and Conley are the "Stars" of our team.   We have murals of Gasol in the city!   That is not done for a guy considered a "role player".  Like it or not the expectations of Max paid Franchise players are more than "role players".    He has All NBA, multiple AllStar appearances and DPOY accolades yet i am not supposed to expect more from him than i do the average role player???

Comparing him to Pau is good.  Because Pau was not a "role player" either.   Dude was the second best player on a championship team.  That makes him at least Star status.  Sorry but max paid guys do not get the luxury of just being "role players".    You can argue all day about his ability but that fat check comes with expectations. 

Besides no one was expecting Gasol to make us a championship team by himself.   Like DWash has been stating - he is supposed to at least be expected to keep us a competitive team.  Sorry but You are the only one with unrealistic expectations.  if you are saying that the guy labeled by the franchise as its cornerstone that paid him max money is only expected to be a "role player". 

I stop reading after maybe Westbrook qualify for SuperStar status?

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@Smit glad you clarified your stance and have a better understanding of what i am saying.   

We can debate Gasol's on court abilities and limitations all day but his position on this team isn't debatable. 

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Peter Edmiston dropped some stats for Marc on his tweeter account last night

 

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston

give you an idea of Marc Gasol's problems in the post, so I put together his last 4 seasons of his post play, per Synergy. A lot of interesting things to see:

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston 11h11 hours ago

Just so you know, Marc faces hard double-teams in the post 9% of the time. That's down from 10% in each of the last two years. He's 6th in the NBA in frequency of double-teams faced in the post.

Peter Edmiston‏ @peteredmiston 11h11 hours ago

Note also that his spot-up pass recipients have been remarkably effective this year. His overall number gets bolstered by that. It was the other way around in years past.

DSrJdzsW0AEoNAF.jpg:large

 

 

 

 

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There was considerable talk that the Grizzlies might be open to trading All-Star center Marc Gasol. While that’s always a possibility when a team underachieves as the Grizzlies have, sources close to the situation say that unless Gasol asks to be traded, it’s not a real consideration for Memphis.

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6 minutes ago, oldmanGrizz said:
There was considerable talk that the Grizzlies might be open to trading All-Star center Marc Gasol. While that’s always a possibility when a team underachieves as the Grizzlies have, sources close to the situation say that unless Gasol asks to be traded, it’s not a real consideration for Memphis.

...because of his trade kicker in his contract. He'd have to waive it in order to get traded.

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On 1/3/2018 at 12:25 PM, TimBC said:

Might be easier if we agree that there's a thing between "role player" and "superstar". 

Let's call it "ace" for the moment. 
Marc's an ace. So is Pau. Shareef Abdur-Rahim was an ace.  Conley probably is too. 
ZBo? Yep, in his prime. Paul Millsap was one for many years. Horford maybe. 
A healthy Parsons is - or was - an ace. 
Always getting some allstar votes, rarely making the team. 
Often the best player on a mid-level team. 
Fair chance of having his jersey number retired if he is lucky enough to have a long career.

When you don't HAVE a superstar, you have to resist the urge to expect superstar play from an ace. 
 

 

 

Bravo . Well said.

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The fact that we have not traded Marc/Reke to Cleveland for that Jersey pick is a crime and a shame.

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10 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

The fact that we have not traded Marc/Reke to Cleveland for that Jersey pick is a crime and a shame.

I dont see how its on the table. If you are Cleveland you can go after someone like Robin Lopez for way less and be just about as good.

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The Brooklyn pick is fallback if LeBron leaves, a selling point to be excited about the future after he's gone. Unless LJ commits to more seasons, I don't see that pick going anywhere, at least not to us.

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27 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

The Brooklyn pick is fallback if LeBron leaves, a selling point to be excited about the future after he's gone. Unless LJ commits to more seasons, I don't see that pick going anywhere, at least not to us.

exactly there is no way they are parting with that pick

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On 1/3/2018 at 7:20 PM, Kevin B Moses said:

Fizdale built the entire offense around iso basketball and yall wonder why Marc has a hard time "leading" the team. 

It was supposed to be built around ball movement and player movement. Post ISO offense is iso too

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

I dont see how its on the table. If you are Cleveland you can go after someone like Robin Lopez for way less and be just about as good.

I'd take. Rolo over Gasol personally..

He plays hard.

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26 minutes ago, MemphisX said:

Gasol is way better and a championship is worth all the #1 picks in the world.

Lol we alll know Gasol struggles with Draymond.

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On 1/2/2018 at 12:28 PM, grizz1016 said:

Fizz is a living legend. Fizz can do no wrong. It’s solely Wallace and Gasol’s fault. LOL

The Fizz love is crazy. Dude had a mediocre record and we really didn’t have an offensive scheme this season when he was here. It was glorified streetball and our talent ain’t good enough to beat organized teams.

+1

And if people believe the decision was made to appease a player they are ignoring a lot of things that happened between the Grizzlies organization and Fizdale.

I didn’t like the hiring or firing of Fizdale but the man brought about his own demise. To place the blame solely on one player is unfair to that player. Fizdale has ostracized his bosses long before Hasol was benched against Brooklyn. It was the last straw but not the only straw.

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