The_PROOF

Troy Williams Appreciation Thread

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Other than shoot a higher percentage from 2 pt, just what did Williams do to deserve to stay more than Harrison?  He made a few plays in which he impressed with his athleticism, but other than those two things I did not see a huge difference.  I think some people are too impressed with athleticism.

 

Exactly. If you can jump high and run fast then you are a superstar on this board.

 

 

Michael Wallace Verified account ‏@MyMikeCheck

 
 
 

Hearing Troy Williams cleared waivers and is expected to continue to play with Grizzlies' D-League affiliate in Iowa to remain in system.

 

 

Meanwhile, no other NBA team is jumping up to sign Troy Williams, so most other NBA GM's are in agreement that it is not such a bad move.

 

I like Troy Williams but he is NOT some great loss if we dont have him.

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Exactly. If you can jump high and run fast then you are a superstar on this board.

 

 

Meanwhile, no other NBA team is jumping up to sign Troy Williams, so most other NBA GM's are in agreement that it is not such a bad move.

 

I like Troy Williams but he is NOT some great loss if we dont have him.

I agree.  I hope we can develop him into someone who can contribute.  Maybe Iowa will be good for him.

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Meanwhile, no other NBA team is jumping up to sign Troy Williams, so most other NBA GM's are in agreement that it is not such a bad move.

 

Well no, see there are these things called roster spots...and each team only gets 15 of them. So if teams don't have roster spots available, they can't add more players. Hence why Williams cleared waivers.

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Other than shoot a higher percentage from 2 pt, just what did Williams do to deserve to stay more than Harrison? He made a few plays in which he impressed with his athleticism, but other than those two things I did not see a huge difference. I think some people are too impressed with athleticism.

We clearly are not watching the same thing.

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I knew Troy W was a fave with a lot of people (I liked him too), but man, this is a whole lot of moaning.

 

We had to get a backup PG in here. Somebody had to go. Logically, it's going to be the guy who keeps getting reassigned to the D-League that doesn't have trade value - which, as a 1st round pick in his first season, Wade Baldwin still does.

 

Where was all this grief when he kept getting shipped out to Iowa?

 

Now - if we don't go ahead and sign Douglas to the rest of the season, or find a legit backup PG somehow before the trade deadline, THEN it's worth getting mad over.

I'm confused as to what's so hard to understand about this.

 

The reason why Troy Williams getting waived has caused such a stir is because the sole reason that he was cut was so that the team could fill a spot currently occupied by two incapable players. He was waived because two other guys weren't cutting it and the team needed to bring it another veteran.

 

Let me give you another scenario that may help bring this thing home. Say the team had 2 backup centers behind Marc Gasol, and they both sucked. The team feels it needs another center to spare Marc's minutes but instead of cutting one of the scrub backup centers that can't get it done, a talented, young point guard who has done pretty much everything asked of him and has shown a lot of potential when given opportunities to play gets cut instead.

 

There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about viewing that as a short-sighted move that absolutely sucks, and I wouldn't be surprised if a playoff team needing some depth picks him up from the d-league and adds hin to their roster.

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I'm confused as to what's so hard to understand about this.

 

The reason why Troy Williams getting waived has caused such a stir is because the sole reason that he was cut was so that the team could fill a spot currently occupied by two incapable players. He was waived because two other guys weren't cutting it and the team needed to bring it another veteran.

 

Let me give you another scenario that may help bring this thing home. Say the team had 2 backup centers behind Marc Gasol, and they both sucked. The team feels it needs another center to spare Marc's minutes but instead of cutting one of the scrub backup centers that can't get it done, a talented, young point guard who has done pretty much everything asked of him and has shown a lot of potential when given opportunities to play gets cut instead.

 

There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about viewing that as a short-sighted move that absolutely sucks, and I wouldn't be surprised if a playoff team needing some depth picks him up from the d-league and adds hin to their roster.

 

I bet if the grizzlies would have cut Andrew Harrison somebody would have picked him up, the same goes for Brandon Wright. Troy Williams is a young, undrafted player who is about 3 years from being a rotation player, that's why they made the move.

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Troy Williams is a young, undrafted player who is about 3 years from being a rotation player, that's why they made the move.

Yeah, I gotta call bull**** on that man. If Troy Williams is 3 years away from being a rotation player, then Andrew Harrison is at least 5 years away and Wade Baldwin is about 10 years away. If Troy Williams was getting the minutes Andrew Harrison gets (23+ minutes a game), there'd be no question about whether or not he's a rotation worthy player. He already proved that.

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Who cares healthy, injured, partially healthy, or missing the 15th man it doesn't matter. This team doesn't have the mentality to win the big one even if they were given a 3-0 lead. Stop making excuses, they are wasting time trying to accomplish a short term goal while in the background the foundation is crumbling and as soon as Mike, Marc, Zbo, or TA fall off the cliff this team will die, cause those 4 are all they have and they are all they care about.

Ndq

Who does have the mentality if not the Griz?

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Yeah, I gotta call bull**** on that man. If Troy Williams is 3 years away from being a rotation player, then Andrew Harrison is at least 5 years away and Wade Baldwin is about 10 years away. If Troy Williams was getting the minutes Andrew Harrison gets (23+ minutes a game), there'd be no question about whether or not he's a rotation worthy player. He already proved that.

In case you haven't noticed Harrison is already a rotation player on a good team.

 

Okay, I'll call BS on that last statement.  Just what has he proven, and how?  What did he do?

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People overrate players that can run fast and jump high. They think it means the player has more potential. I say it around draft time every year

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In case you haven't noticed Harrison is already a rotation player on a good team.

 

I think it's hilarious that you're boasting about him being a "rotation player" when the only other viable option was playing Tony Allen at PG...which had been the case at times. Let's not act like he's actually had significant competition for the playing time he's received...which can be said for Troy Williams.

 

Okay, I'll call BS on that last statement. Just what has he proven, and how? What did he do?

He showed that he's an NBA quality player. If that wasn't the case, he wouldn't have made the roster. The guy was an undrafted rookie training camp invite. The team had no obligation to invest in him, but they did. If he wasn't good, he wouldn't have made the team. I don't understand why you make that seem so far-fetched.

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People overrate players that can run fast and jump high. They think it means the player has more potential. I say it around draft time every year

I guess that means those same "people" that you're referring to in the front office saw enough athletic ability and speed to see some sort of potential in him. They saw enough potential in him to cut a guy who they invested two years and millions of dollars in just to hold on to said potential....or as you would call it, athletic ability and speed.

 

Fans, such as yourself, who for whatever reason can't seem to see the potential in him or just won't acknowledge the potential, are actually in the minority...in case you didn't realize it.

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I think it's hilarious that you're boasting about him being a "rotation player" when the only other viable option was playing Tony Allen at PG...which had been the case at times. Let's not act like he's actually had significant competition for the playing time he's received...which can be said for Troy Williams.

 

 

He showed that he's an NBA quality player. If that wasn't the case, he wouldn't have made the roster. The guy was an undrafted rookie training camp invite. The team had no obligation to invest in him, but they did. If he wasn't good, he wouldn't have made the team. I don't understand why you make that seem so far-fetched.

You didn't really answer the question with that, did you?  Harrison was a late second round pick who the Grizzlies saw enough in to invest in as well, so what?  Harrison is second among rookies in assists and 5th in steals, and after a dismal November and December shooting he shot 46% in January, a trend in the right direction.  He still gets to the line at the third best rate on the team and hits free throws, and he doesn't turn the ball over much.  Why does that seem so bad to you for a rookie second round pick?  I think your expectations are unreasonable.

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You didn't really answer the question with that, did you? Harrison was a late second round pick who the Grizzlies saw enough in to invest in as well, so what? Harrison is second among rookies in assists and 5th in steals, and after a dismal November and December shooting he shot 46% in January, a trend in the right direction. He still gets to the line at the third best rate on the team and hits free throws, and he doesn't turn the ball over much. Why does that seem so bad to you for a rookie second round pick? I think your expectations are unreasonable.

I really dont get the hate on Harrison.

 

He's better now than the other rookie guard we have. And thats the thing that makes me cringe.

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They valued Williams enough to bring him to camp.

 

They cut Adams to give him a roster spot and a payday.

 

The coach gave him time to show that he is a good investment.

 

Williams must believe that the Grizzlies value him and not feel slighted or he'd keep the payday and not play on the Grizzly D-League team.

 

Baldwin shows promise but is not ready this season and not cut-able. We need a 3rd point, one who can better cover little guys and has experience.

 

So just like with Adams, they cut the guy that they have a chance to cut and keep.

 

I say, way to go, FO.

 

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I guess that means those same "people" that you're referring to in the front office saw enough athletic ability and speed to see some sort of potential in him. They saw enough potential in him to cut a guy who they invested two years and millions of dollars in just to hold on to said potential....or as you would call it, athletic ability and speed.

 

Fans, such as yourself, who for whatever reason can't seem to see the potential in him or just won't acknowledge the potential, are actually in the minority...in case you didn't realize it.

I can see the potential but I can also see the holes and flaws in his game. The same flaws that led to him going undrafted, getting sent to the d Dleague, getting cut and then not getting signed by another team yet.

 

Most all young fridge NBA players have potential. Bottom line is he isn't a good enough player to get upset about cutting

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You didn't really answer the question with that, did you? Harrison was a late second round pick who the Grizzlies saw enough in to invest in as well, so what? Harrison is second among rookies in assists and 5th in steals, and after a dismal November and December shooting he shot 46% in January, a trend in the right direction. He still gets to the line at the third best rate on the team and hits free throws, and he doesn't turn the ball over much. Why does that seem so bad to you for a rookie second round pick? I think your expectations are unreasonable.

The foundation of the point that you and a few others are missing here is the Grizzlies had to cut a young player that they really liked primarily because Andrew Harrison and Wade Baldwin aren't good enough to be trusted as the teams only point guard options behind Mike Conley. That is 100% factual. All this extra stuff you're bringing into the equation is a moot point.

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I can see the potential but I can also see the holes and flaws in his game. The same flaws that led to him going undrafted, getting sent to the d Dleague, getting cut and then not getting signed by another team yet.

 

Most all young fridge NBA players have potential. Bottom line is he isn't a good enough player to get upset about cutting

For some reason you're also still having a hard time understanding the entire point being made here. Troy Williams didn't get cut because of his flaws. He got cut because the two backup point guards weren't good enough and the team needed to bring in a veteran point guard that David Fizdale could trust.

 

You bringing up the fact that he went undrafted is absolutely irrelevant to the point, and has no merit because he made the team over a guy that the team valued and invested in DESPITE his "flaws".

 

You bringing up the fact that he went to the d-league was also dumb because they sent him so that he could actually play once our more experienced wing rotation players came back into the fold. It had nothing to do with him not being good enough.

 

You bringing up him not getting signed by another team was also stupid because most teams don't have roster spots available at this point in the season.

 

So literally everything you just said had was pretty much fruitless attempts to demean a young player who did everything he was asked to do when the bottom line is HE GOT CUT BECAUSE ANDREW HARRISON AND WADE BALDWIN WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

If you don't think he's a good enough to care about being cut, that's your prerogative. Nearly everyone associated with the franchise came out and stated their displeasure with having to let him go, so again, count yourself amongst the minority of folks who saw him as an irrelevant player.

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The foundation of the point that you and a few others are missing here is the Grizzlies had to cut a young player that they really liked primarily because Andrew Harrison and Wade Baldwin aren't good enough to be trusted as the teams only point guard options behind Mike Conley. That is 100% factual. All this extra stuff you're bringing into the equation is a moot point.

How is Harrison not to be trusted?  After signing the vet, Douglas, Harrison is still getting the bulk of the backup minutes so, no, it is not factual.

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I don't know if I agree with the primary point being pushed here. Troy looked good at times but overall his play wasn't that great. Honestly it wasn't. His PER and WP48 weren't eye popping. Baldwin is younger and shows potential but needs seasoning. Harrison clearly beat out Troy for PT this season. Troy also had the most expendable contract of the three. It was a business decision based on the present and the future of the franchise.

 

I hope Troy continues to improve and gets brought back to show how he's developed this season but I believe the team made a tough but correct call both now and for the future. Point guard is one of the most difficult positions for young players to learn. Given time Harrison and Baldwin should improve and make the decision look smart down the road more than it appears to some people today.

 

The future is unwritten so we won't know for sure but I suspect both young PGs will have longer and more successful careers in the NBA.

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I don't know if I agree with the primary point being pushed here. Troy looked good at times but overall his play wasn't that great. Honestly it wasn't. His PER and WP48 weren't eye popping. Baldwin is younger and shows potential but needs seasoning. Harrison clearly beat out Troy for PT this season. Troy also had the most expendable contract of the three. It was a business decision based on the present and the future of the franchise.

 

I hope Troy continues to improve and gets brought back to show how he's developed this season but I believe the team made a tough but correct call both now and for the future. Point guard is one of the most difficult positions for young players to learn. Given time Harrison and Baldwin should improve and make the decision look smart down the road more than it appears to some people today.

 

The future is unwritten so we won't know for sure but I suspect both young PGs will have longer and more successful careers in the NBA.

But none of this says anything to dispute the primary point being made, which was that Troy Williams was cut because the team needed to bring in another point guard because the two that were on the roster simply were not cutting it. All this really seems to be is more nitpicking of Troy Williams' flaws and gassing up Harrison.

 

It also makes absolutely no sense to say Harrison "clearly beat out" Williams for PT this season. First of all, they don't even play the same position, so they aren't even competing for the same minutes. Troy Williams plays a position where he has five veterans firmly planted ahead of him, while Harrison has one. Secondly, while Williams may not have eye-popping numbers I'll tell you what numbers are eye-popping...Harrison shooting 31% from the field and still being viewed as this clear-cut rotation player. But hey, people are entitled to their own opinion.

 

Not sure how many times I'll have to say this...if either Harrison and Baldwin were a viable option at the backup point guard position, Troy Williams would not have been cut. That's all I've been trying to say. No one said he's the next coming of Kevin Durant, but he was clearly a guy who, similar to what we did with JaMychal Green, could have been molded into the perfect role player/spark that good teams always value.

 

He's not with the team, and I understand the rationale. I hope he gets an opportunity to get back in the league soon, because he's deserving. His college teammate, also undrafted, is tearing it up in Dallas after being cut. Brooklyn also saw him as "cheap and expendable", and now he's 4-0 as the Mavs' starting PG and averaging about 18 ppg, 5 apg and 3 rpg. He locked up a 2 year deal after just one 10-day contract. All it takes is the right opportunity.

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But none of this says anything to dispute the primary point being made, which was that Troy Williams was cut because the team needed to bring in another point guard because the two that were on the roster simply were not cutting it. All this really seems to be is more nitpicking of Troy Williams' flaws and gassing up Harrison.

 

It also makes absolutely no sense to say Harrison "clearly beat out" Williams for PT this season. First of all, they don't even play the same position, so they aren't even competing for the same minutes. Troy Williams plays a position where he has five veterans firmly planted ahead of him, while Harrison has one. Secondly, while Williams may not have eye-popping numbers I'll tell you what numbers are eye-popping...Harrison shooting 31% from the field and still being viewed as this clear-cut rotation player. But hey, people are entitled to their own opinion.

 

Not sure how many times I'll have to say this...if either Harrison and Baldwin were a viable option at the backup point guard position, Troy Williams would not have been cut. That's all I've been trying to say. No one said he's the next coming of Kevin Durant, but he was clearly a guy who, similar to what we did with JaMychal Green, could have been molded into the perfect role player/spark that good teams always value.

 

He's not with the team, and I understand the rationale. I hope he gets an opportunity to get back in the league soon, because he's deserving. His college teammate, also undrafted, is tearing it up in Dallas after being cut. Brooklyn also saw him as "cheap and expendable", and now he's 4-0 as the Mavs' starting PG and averaging about 18 ppg, 5 apg and 3 rpg. He locked up a 2 year deal after just one 10-day contract. All it takes is the right opportunity.

One thing you're not taking into account is that Andrew Harrison, at 6'6" can spend a few minutes at the SF position when necessary, but Troy Williams cannot play any PG.  Oh, and since the new year began Harrison is shooting 44% from the field and 41% from three-point land.

 

I'm sure you'll disagree, so I guess this discussion has run its course.

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