The_PROOF

Troy Williams Appreciation Thread

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I liked Williams too, but I think a lot of posters are really overrating him. The guy gave us 5.3 ppg on under 42% shooting and his 3-pt percentage is the same as Harrison's at 24%. He also only shot 60% from the line and didn't get there often and turned the ball over at the third highest rate on the team. I agree he is athletic and has great hustle and effort, and I would like to see him hang around, but he was not setting the world on fire with his play like some of you seem to think.

 

I also don't understand the Harrison hate. Sure, his shot is not good but I have been listening to posters on these boards for years posting about how shooting is the one skill that can be taught and improved at the NBA level. So why not be patient with developing Harrison's shot? He turns the ball over at a lower rate than Mike or Marc and way lower than Wade Baldwin. He has size and defends, and he gets to the line at the third highest rate on the team and shoots 77% at the stripe. Everyone seems to have forgotten that the Grizzlies went 8-3 with Harrison starting at the PG spot including the thrashing of OKC by 34 points and the drubbing of GSW by 21 points. He's a rookie, so why the hate? I think there are a lot of posters who have some unreasonable expectations and unfounded bias against him.

We went 8-3 in spite of Harrison being the starting PG...not because of Harrison being the starting PG. Once/if he develops an outside shot, he'll be more valuable to us...until then, he's not really dependable which is why we need a guy like Toney Douglas.

 

And I don't think people are over rating Troy Williams. The guy was an undrafted wing player who came in and played solid for us, has solid athleticism and obvious potential. That type of player has value, so naturally people hate to see him get cut.

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We went 8-3 in spite of Harrison being the starting PG...not because of Harrison being the starting PG. Once/if he develops an outside shot, he'll be more valuable to us...until then, he's not really dependable which is why we need a guy like Toney Douglas.

 

And I don't think people are over rating Troy Williams. The guy was an undrafted wing player who came in and played solid for us, has solid athleticism and obvious potential. That type of player has value, so naturally people hate to see him get cut.

I knew someone would post this ridiculous BS, I just wasn't sure who would be first.  You know it is a TEAM game, and some of the players on the team have different roles.  Everyone isn't going to be the glory guy.

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I knew someone would post this ridiculous BS, I just wasn't sure who would be first.  You know it is a TEAM game, and some of the players on the team have different roles.  Everyone isn't going to be the glory guy.

 

BS? Are you kidding? I think you may be slightly confused.  What that simply means is, although Mike Conley went down, the rest of the team was able to win games. You chose to attribute that success to Andrew Harrison starting at PG.  I simply pointed out the fact that the team's success shouldn't be attribute to Andrew Harrison starting at all.

 

If stating the obvious about Harrison not being the reason for the team's success in Conley's absence is BS to you, please feel free to explain to us how a guy who shoots 28% from the field (21% from 3-point range) and averages 8 points, 4 assists/2 turnovers and 2 rebounds a game as a starter should be accredited for any of the team's success?

 

Like I said, the Grizzlies went 8-3 in spite of having a below average PG starting and playing 32 minutes a night.  All facts.

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BS? Are you kidding? I think you may be slightly confused.  What that simply means is, although Mike Conley went down, the rest of the team was able to win games. You chose to attribute that success to Andrew Harrison starting at PG.  I simply pointed out the fact that the team's success shouldn't be attribute to Andrew Harrison starting at all.

 

If stating the obvious about Harrison not being the reason for the team's success in Conley's absence is BS to you, please feel free to explain to us how a guy who shoots 28% from the field (21% from 3-point range) and averages 8 points, 4 assists/2 turnovers and 2 rebounds a game as a starter should be accredited for any of the team's success?

 

Like I said, the Grizzlies went 8-3 in spite of having a below average PG starting and playing 32 minutes a night.  All facts.

By playing good defense, running the offense, not turning the ball over, etc.  Look, PROOF, I'm not saying he's the sole reason for our success during that stretch, but you can hardly say he's trash when he played the majority of the PG minutes during that stretch when we also destroyed two top teams.  For gosh sakes, he's a rookie.  Why do you quote those incorrect percentages?  Granted, they're not much better but he's shooting 31.5% from the field and 24% from three which is, incidentally, the same percentage the great Troy Williams shoots from three.  He logged 66 minutes going up against arguably the two best point guards in the league and we blew their teams out in spite of him being on the floor?  Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?  You know scoring is not the only thing a player does in a basketball game.

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I'm actually good with this. I didn't really like the contract Troy was on because when he does actually get a chance he will prove himself to be a good role player, and we probably would have lost him for nothing after the second year.

 

I'd like to see him signed this summer to a three year deal so we can have his bird rights, like JaM's contract.

 

Meanwhile I hope eventually we will be able to bring in Mario Chalmers.

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Harrison is gonna get ate alive by playoff caliber defense. He does some decent things however.

You could probably say that about nearly every rookie who isn't some generational talent.  Most rookies do have a hard time adjusting to playoff intensity.

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Glad we got Toney D back.  He played very well earlier for us and I think he deserves a contract.  Mike seems a little fragile at times ... he needs to be restricted to 26-28 minutes a game until the playoffs.

 

I also hope we get lucky and can sign Troy to D-League contract & get him to sign a contract this summer.  He still needs some experience and polish but I don't cringe when he's in the game (like I do most rookies).  He can contribute now.

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You could probably say that about nearly every rookie who isn't some generational talent. Most rookies do have a hard time adjusting to playoff intensity.

Nah Greivis Vazquez wasnt useless for example. Steven Adams was solid. I think Harrison will be unplayable.

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By playing good defense, running the offense, not turning the ball over, etc. Look, PROOF, I'm not saying he's the sole reason for our success during that stretch, but you can hardly say he's trash when he played the majority of the PG minutes during that stretch when we also destroyed two top teams. For gosh sakes, he's a rookie. Why do you quote those incorrect percentages? Granted, they're not much better but he's shooting 31.5% from the field and 24% from three which is, incidentally, the same percentage the great Troy Williams shoots from three. He logged 66 minutes going up against arguably the two best point guards in the league and we blew their teams out in spite of him being on the floor? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? You know scoring is not the only thing a player does in a basketball game.

The numbers that I quoted were correct. They're based on the 14 games he started this season, which I also stated in the post.

 

Look, I don't like bashing the guy. I understand that he's a rookie, and I honestly want him to do well. I'm frustrated that we cut a good, young prospect and Harrison is partially to blame for it. Troy Williams didn't deserve to be cut, but it made sense since the team didn't commit as much to him financially. It just sucks.

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Nah Greivis Vazquez wasnt useless for example. Steven Adams was solid. I think Harrison will be unplayable.

Whaddaya mean?  That's why Hollins wanted him gone from blowing critical defensive plays in our series against the Thunder.

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The numbers that I quoted were correct. They're based on the 14 games he started this season, which I also stated in the post.

 

Look, I don't like bashing the guy. I understand that he's a rookie, and I honestly want him to do well. I'm frustrated that we cut a good, young prospect and Harrison is partially to blame for it. Troy Williams didn't deserve to be cut, but it made sense since the team didn't commit as much to him financially. It just sucks.

Okay, PROOF, I'll buy that.  I didn't notice it was his starts you were speaking of.

 

We may just have to disagree, but I don't think Andrew Harrison deserves to be cut any more than Williams.  I would rather have kept both.  I don't think that Toney Douglas is the answer to anything either.  If we need a point guard that badly we should have probably traded for a better vet.

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I don't have any record in my private messages from you. I don't remember any private messages when you told me any insider who told you about Joerger or Hollins' dislike of rookies. I strongly doubt Hollins, who started as a rookie in Portland, would be against rookies in general but I could see him being against unqualified or unprepared rookies getting PT. Hollins started Conley. He played Lowry. He played Gay albeit less than some wanted. Joerger played Calathes, Podexter, Davis and Leuer who were all on rookie contracts. He clashed with them. He didn't play them a lot but we need to remember that Joerger was in a "win or else" mode right from the beginning. That affects your desire to plan for the future, allow players to make mistakes and to think of anything other than maximizing wins now. 

 

In contrast, Fizdale is heading back toward the veteran only rotation that Joerger and Hollins have been criticized about with no expectation of winning this year. People are not expecting a run to the NBA Finals. Wallace hired Fizdale with Pera's okay so there isn't anyone looking over his shoulder like Joerger had who was hired by Levien and Pera was rumored to try and fire 2 weeks into his first year.

 

I'm also not saying that Fizdale should be criticized for this. I am only asking the hatred of Joerger and Hollins for doing the same thing needs to end. These men did their best in a tough situation. Hollins transformed this franchise from the worst in professional sports to a final 4 franchise his last year here. Joerger continued the success to the point that the Grizzlies have the 3rd longest active stretch of playoff appearances in the NBA.  

 

I want Fizdale to continue that success and I want Wallace to make great picks, intelligent roster moves and smart contract signings. I haven't seen Wallace do that much lately but I want him to do it going forward and possibly, signing Douglas and dumping Williams will be the first in a number of smart moves. I sincerely want that.  

 

 

Chip, why are you so set on defending Joerger even though he is gone now? Seems very odd. I am sorry to say this (again) but Joerger is garbage. He was for us and he currently is for Sactown. Two more years, at best, and it will be the last we see from him in the NBA for a while.

 

Wallace's acquisitions have been downright horrible (this is probably due to equal parts incompetence and bad luck), but that doesn't change the fact that DJ was bad too. 

 

Your posts seem to attempt to undercut Fizdale in order to validate your point - FROM LAST YEAR - that Joerger is some great coach. It is sad for someone that used to be so positive about the Grizz to pull a complete 180 like this and turn into a horribilis... 

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I liked Williams too, but I think a lot of posters are really overrating him.  The guy gave us 5.3 ppg on under 42% shooting and his 3-pt percentage is the same as Harrison's at 24%.  He also only shot 60% from the line and didn't get there often and turned the ball over at the third highest rate on the team.  I agree he is athletic and has great hustle and effort, and I would like to see him hang around, but he was not setting the world on fire with his play like some of you seem to think.

 

I also don't understand the Harrison hate.  Sure, his shot is not good but I have been listening to posters on these boards for years posting about how shooting is the one skill that can be taught and improved at the NBA level.  So why not be patient with developing Harrison's shot?  He turns the ball over at a lower rate than Mike or Marc and way lower than Wade Baldwin.  He has size and defends, and he gets to the line at the third highest rate on the team and shoots 77% at the stripe.  Everyone seems to have forgotten that the Grizzlies went 8-3 with Harrison starting at the PG spot including the thrashing of OKC by 34 points and the drubbing of GSW by 21 points.  He's a rookie, so why the hate?  I think there are a lot of posters who have some unreasonable expectations and unfounded bias against him.

 

Thanks.

That is so well put, "U must be a robot." :lol:

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I think that Harrison gives a lot of folks hesitation to support him due to his body language.  The dude looks like someone kicked his puppy half the time.  I personally think he could develop into a decent player...has to work on his shot of course.  But more than anything, work on exuding confidence.  That is big for your point guard.

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I think that Harrison gives a lot of folks hesitation to support him due to his body language. The dude looks like someone kicked his puppy half the time. I personally think he could develop into a decent player...has to work on his shot of course. But more than anything, work on exuding confidence. That is big for your point guard.

Haha that made me laugh and is completely true.

 

I'd say it more is like he looks like HE kicked or stepped on his own puppy and injured it half the time.

 

It's so depressing lol

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Okay, PROOF, I'll buy that.  I didn't notice it was his starts you were speaking of.

 

We may just have to disagree, but I don't think Andrew Harrison deserves to be cut any more than Williams.  I would rather have kept both.  I don't think that Toney Douglas is the answer to anything either.  If we need a point guard that badly we should have probably traded for a better vet.

 

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.  Again, the logic behind cutting Harrison (or trading Baldwin) made more sense than waiving Williams.  If Harrison (or Baldwin) had been playing up to expectations (which weren't set very high), Williams would probably still be a Memphis Grizzly.  They didn't, therefore, Williams is gone.

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Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.  Again, the logic behind cutting Harrison (or trading Baldwin) made more sense than waiving Williams.  If Harrison (or Baldwin) had been playing up to expectations (which weren't set very high), Williams would probably still be a Memphis Grizzly.  They didn't, therefore, Williams is gone.

Other than shoot a higher percentage from 2 pt, just what did Williams do to deserve to stay more than Harrison?  He made a few plays in which he impressed with his athleticism, but other than those two things I did not see a huge difference.  I think some people are too impressed with athleticism.

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I knew Troy W was a fave with a lot of people (I liked him too), but man, this is a whole lot of moaning.

 

We had to get a backup PG in here.  Somebody had to go.  Logically, it's going to be the guy who keeps getting reassigned to the D-League that doesn't have trade value - which, as a 1st round pick in his first season, Wade Baldwin still does.

 

Where was all this grief when he kept getting shipped out to Iowa?

 

Now - if we don't go ahead and sign Douglas to the rest of the season, or find a legit backup PG somehow before the trade deadline, THEN it's worth getting mad over.

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Now - if we don't go ahead and sign Douglas to the rest of the season, or find a legit backup PG somehow before the trade deadline, THEN it's worth getting mad over.

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