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Kevin B Moses

I Guess I'm In The Minority Because I Want Mike, Marc, Zach And Tony To Retire As Grizzlies

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Look...if we would have drafted Rodney Hood, we wouldn't have this issue. He was ready to contribute and he filled a void at SF and he can shoot. We suffer from poor management decisions and coaching. 

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Look...if we would have drafted Rodney Hood, we wouldn't have this issue. He was ready to contribute and he filled a void at SF and he can shoot. We suffer from poor management decisions and coaching.

I was a huge fan of Adams heading into the draft, and have defended the pick like a madman, but I'm willing to admit when I'm dead wrong.

 

Missing on hood was a disaster.

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Missing on Hood was the choice we should have made but that's water under the bridge. What can we do right know to make the team better?

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I love those four guys. It would be wonderful to see them retire as Grizzlies. But I'd prefer to see the Grizzlies win. That means more to me than if a player plays his last few seasons with us or not. Right now this team is regressing due to age. It needs an injection of youth and talent. The only way to accomplish that is to trade some of those players. I am ok with that.

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I love those four guys. It would be wonderful to see them retire as Grizzlies. But I'd prefer to see the Grizzlies win. That means more to me than if a player plays his last few seasons with us or not. Right now this team is regressing due to age. It needs an injection of youth and talent. The only way to accomplish that is to trade some of those players. I am ok with that.

 

 

You assume if the grizzlies trade for youth, they'll win. Not a guarantee. You assume if the grizzlies keep those 4 they'll lose. Also not a guarantee.

 

Now let's get to the premise of my thread: out of front office, the coach and other players I've seen in this league and how they operate, my question was who do I trust out of all of them? Other than getting Lebron or KD, I trust this core 4. 

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You assume if the grizzlies trade for youth, they'll win. Not a guarantee. You assume if the grizzlies keep those 4 they'll will not win. Also not a guarantee.

 

Now let's get to the premise of my thread: out of front office, the coach and other players I've seen in this league and how they operate, my question was who do I trust out of all of them? Other than getting Lebron or KD, I trust this core 4. 

Trust them to do what?  Continue to decline and be a first or second round exit this year?   That's all i trust and that's only for this year.  Next season if major changes aren't made i wouldn't trust them to make the playoffs.  Especially if Joerger and Wallace are still at the helms. 

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Trust them to do what?  Continue to decline and be a first or second round exit this year?   That's all i trust and that's only for this year.  Next season if major changes aren't made i wouldn't trust them to make the playoffs.  Especially if Joerger and Wallace are still at the helms. 

 

 

Expectations and trust are two different things. So for example, in you statement, That's all i trust and that's only for this year, you could really say: that's all I expect and that's only for this year.

 

You also seem to expect that your fortunes would be vastly different if say the organization traded these players for younger pieces. So your expectations would go up about the team's fortunes greatly if this happened.

 

Really?

 

There is a possibility (also) that the team's fortunes would be greatly derailed by younger players than it would if they kept the core 4 intact. And the team would not even get to the first and second round of the playoffs with the hypothetical players that you are wishing for.

 

My point is this then: I TRUST that this team will maximize their playoff hopes if they keep the core four than to get rid of them, for the reasons that I have mentioned before: the coach is terrible, the front office is inept, and younger players don't often pan out the way you expect them to. 

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Expectations and trust are two different things. So for example, in you statement, That's all i trust and that's only for this year, you could really say: that's all I expect and that's only for this year.

 

You also seem to expect that your fortunes would be vastly different if say the organization traded these players for younger pieces. So your expectations would go up about the team's fortunes greatly if this happened.

 

Really?

 

There is a possibility (also) that the team's fortunes would be greatly derailed by younger players than it would if they kept the core 4 intact. And the team would not even get to the first and second round of the playoffs with the hypothetical players that you are wishing for.

 

My point is this then: I TRUST that this team will maximize their playoff hopes if they keep the core four than to get rid of them, for the reasons that I have mentioned before: the coach is terrible, the front office is inept, and younger players don't often pan out the way you expect them to. 

Your premise is the core4.  Mine is it't time to move on from it being a core4 to a core2.   It can be Mike +Marc or Mike+Zbo or Marc+Tony it doesn't matter to me as long as we get sufficient return for whomever is moved. 

 

It is well past time to start looking at the entire picture instead of focusing on just this season. 

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Your premise is the core4.  Mine is it't time to move on from it being a core4 to a core2.   It can be Mike +Marc or Mike+Zbo or Marc+Tony it doesn't matter to me as long as we get sufficient return for whomever is moved. 

 

It is well past time to start looking at the entire picture instead of focusing on just this season. 

 

 

My point is that I don't assume that my fortunes would improve by trading for younger players. Just the opposite. Now if we trade for Lebron James, or KD or Anthony Davis, sure I will go with you on that.

 

Younger players is like that hot secretary vs your wife. Yeah, it might be good for a moment, until reality sets in. 

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My point is that I don't assume that my fortunes would improve by trading for younger players. Just the opposite. Now if we trade for Lebron James, or KD or Anthony Davis, sure I will go with you on that.

 

Younger players is like that hot secretary vs your wife. Yeah, it might be good for a moment, until reality sets in. 

The trade qualification isn't simply that they are "young" they also need to have talent.   No one on here is saying that getting a bunch of young players equates to championships.  

 

past prime veteran players is like that hot secretary vs your wife. Yeah, it might be good for a moment, until reality sets in AND you realize their is no real future with the hot secretary.  

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The trade qualification isn't simply that they are "young" they also need to have talent.   No one on here is saying that getting a bunch of young players equates to championships.  

 

past prime veteran players is like that hot secretary vs your wife. Yeah, it might be good for a moment, until reality sets in AND you realize their is no real future with the hot secretary.  

 

 

But you seem to assume that younger players will equate to at least the success that this current group has had. That's not a given either brother.

 

And let me just address the whole idea of "prime," which seems to be the blow it crowd's trump card. Well, they are PAST THEIR PRIME. Don't you see that-- they are old and declining. They need geritol.

 

Listen, Rubio was a highly-touted player who has 6 years of prime left, but I'm assuming if the front office said hey let's trade Conley for Rubio because of all of that PRIME he has left, you'd roast them for that move.

 

Prime don't mean buffalo chips.

 

There are many players who have prime years left that will never do what this group has done.

 

Now Chemistry, there's a word. You wanna talk about your plan for team chemistry with all of these highly-touted prime players? How did that OJ MAYO experience work out? 

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So basically you're saying that since we don't know how it would turn out we should never rebuild?

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So basically you're saying that since we don't know how it would turn out we should never rebuild?

Most people want to hold on to this core out of fear. Even though they know we will have to rebuild soon anyway.

 

One more year to avoid pain which will lead to an even longer rebuild. However, then those people will be on here saying how much we miss the core even though keeping them so long will be the cause for the extended (5+ years) rebuild.

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So basically you're saying that since we don't know how it would turn out we should never rebuild?

 

 

Shorten what you said to this: "So you are saying we should never rebuild," and yes that is exactly what I am saying. We should never rebuild, but not because we don't know how it turns out, but because rebuilding to me defeats the purpose of what has already been established: which is a culture, an identity, a way of life.

 

Rebuilding is the easy way out. Because we can't figure out how to improve the team, let's give up on it and start over. That's like saying well we don't know how to grow the company so let's liquidate the assets and find another business.

 

The grizzlies should never rebuild their identity (and trading core players WOULD DO THAT). They should make their identity more relevant. Trading players (especially core players) is a desperate move that hardly ever works.

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The thing that bothers me about this fan base is that most are still holding on to the sentimental aspect of the Grit n Grind era. Falling in love with the names on the back of the jersey instead of the front never works out. The core 4 is done. This "Marc Gasol is the best center in the game" stuff is really comical to me too.

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The thing that bothers me about this fan base is that most are still holding on to the sentimental aspect of the Grit n Grind era. Falling in love with the names on the back of the jersey instead of the front never works out. The core 4 is done. This "Marc Gasol is the best center in the game" stuff is really comical to me too.

 

 

So anybody that feels that the best way moving forward is to kept the core of the team enact is just a sentimentalist? 

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So anybody that feels that the best way moving forward is to kept the core of the team enact is just a sentimentalist?

 

Well either that or they're not seeing what's happening to this team but hey, do you homie. Grit Grind!!!

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I will the first to agree that we need a good shot in the arm of youth but we also need experience. The champs last year had three players on that team that proved that; Iguodala, Barbosa, and Livingston and yes I know that they are not Curry, Thompson, and Green. The Spurs have won with a team of experienced players. Both have a mixture that help get the job done. Our four,if starting or coming off the bench, have value. If we can make a trade that truly enhances the team to move forward we should do it, but to mortgage the team on guys who are young is risky. You need both. When a player gets to a point where he can't effectively contribute, he needs to go.

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The thing that bothers me about this fan base is that most are still holding on to the sentimental aspect of the Grit n Grind era. Falling in love with the names on the back of the jersey instead of the front never works out. The core 4 is done. This "Marc Gasol is the best center in the game" stuff is really comical to me too.

Even if this were true the center position is the worst in the game. So bad that it had to be removed from the All Star game.

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So anybody that feels that the best way moving forward is to kept the core of the team enact is just a sentimentalist? 

 

There always comes a time when you must either <expletive deleted> or get off the pot.

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I've resigned myself that the Grizzlies will do what they have always done with Wallace on the payroll...

 

Be reactive.

 

They will resign Conley and one of the wings left after the deadline. Draft someone who won't help as a rookie. Sign an MLE level player to a bloated contract. Sign some old guys. Sign someone with Memphis ties. Blow it up when everyone's value is at its lowest.

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Shorten what you said to this: "So you are saying we should never rebuild," and yes that is exactly what I am saying. We should never rebuild, but not because we don't know how it turns out, but because rebuilding to me defeats the purpose of what has already been established: which is a culture, an identity, a way of life.

 

Rebuilding is the easy way out. Because we can't figure out how to improve the team, let's give up on it and start over. That's like saying well we don't know how to grow the company so let's liquidate the assets and find another business.

 

The grizzlies should never rebuild their identity (and trading core players WOULD DO THAT). They should make their identity more relevant. Trading players (especially core players) is a desperate move that hardly ever works.

I dont often agree with KBM, but he is dead on here.

 

We have too many "blow it up" people on this board.

 

The proper way to do it is the way the Spurs operate. Draft and develop younger players so that they can phase out the older group and let the younger group take over.

 

The David Robinson, Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson, Spurs

Gave way to the Duncan, Parker, Ginobili Spurs

who are now giving way to the Kawhi, Lamarcus ....whoever spurs

 

Of course with an idiot for a coach who wont play young guys......

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I've resigned myself that the Grizzlies will do what they have always done with Wallace on the payroll...

 

Be reactive.

 

They will resign Conley and one of the wings left after the deadline. Draft someone who won't help as a rookie. Sign an MLE level player to a bloated contract. Sign some old guys. Sign someone with Memphis ties. Blow it up when everyone's value is at its lowest.

 

 

You don't get yourself any closer to a championship by going backwards. And regardless of the haul you get for any of our players, you are going backwards.

 

Once you commit to a youth movement, it's 5 years minimum before you see a return on investment IN THE PLAYOFFS.

 

Are the grizzlies stuck? Yes, they are, until they can add more talent to the roster. But adding talent by trading away your best players is a backwards move that doesn't guarantee you even the success you already have.

 

Would I like to have ben simmons? yes, I would. But at the same time, I don't want to blow up the team to get him.

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