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Ndq0327

So Are The Grizz Trading For A Big Or Waiving For Hollins

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To try and draw attention away from blowing the team up, and dream championship scenarios which we all should know neither will happen this year. What we can discuss is what will the team do in reguards to our lack of big man depth.

 

Brandan Wright is out and injury prone.

 

ZBo has shown that extended minutes isn't gonna work for him this season.

 

Marc has the neck thing.

 

Jam doesn't have the size to deal with real centers or power bigs.

 

Martin is hurt and wasn't going to play.

 

Jeff Barnes and VC are wings.

 

So how do we fix our big man problem?

 

I posted three trades where we landed either Miles Plumlee, Chris Kaman, or JJ Hickson. KBM created the channing Frye thread so there are four available bigs. I want to know what you guys think the FO will or should do in reguards to this manner.

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Waive the 3rd PG. Sign Hollins.

What happens when Conley gets hurt later in the season who backs up Rio?

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What happens when Conley gets hurt later in the season who backs up Rio?

you make a good point, but I guess I would say cross that bridge when/if you come to it.  You HAVE a problem at center NOW and who knows when or if Wright will come back. 

 

I hate the thought of waiving Russ Smith.  I would rather waive Vince Carter, bless his heart or James Ennis and then sign Ryan Hollins. The only thing about Hollins is that he is 30 years old. Just cant see waiving a young PG for a 30 yr old center.   its a heckuva situation. However, one thing is certain, The way things are now wont work for much longer--not to say they are even working now.  

 

If Ennis has some potential then use him, but to have him sit game after game after game while we are starving for a big like Hollins who is still unsigned as of now just doesnt make sense.  What is the consensus?  Does Ennis have a future with the Grizzlies?  Is he worth holding on to, but never playing and precluding the Grizz from signing Hollins?

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you make a good point, but I guess I would say cross that bridge when/if you come to it. You HAVE a problem at center NOW and who knows when or if Wright will come back.

 

I hate the thought of waiving Russ Smith. I would rather waive Vince Carter, bless his heart or James Ennis and then sign Ryan Hollins. The only thing about Hollins is that he is 30 years old. Just cant see waiving a young PG for a 30 yr old center. its a heckuva situation. However, one thing is certain, The way things are now wont work for much longer--not to say they are even working now.

 

If Ennis has some potential then use him, but to have him sit game after game after game while we are starving for a big like Hollins who is still unsigned as of now just doesnt make sense. What is the consensus? Does Ennis have a future with the Grizzlies? Is he worth holding on to, but never playing and precluding the Grizz from signing Hollins?

Waiving either of the young players makes not Waiving Stokes look absolutely stupid. I could see us moving Russ for a big cause they have Harrison in the dleague and he should at least be as good as a third pg by next season. But I think Russ has gotten an unfair shake due to Joerger's inability to let him be himself and learn from his mistakes.

 

I really hope the reason they are playing VC is because they are showing that he can actually still play. It makes no sense to go through another season with VC playing ahead of a young wing when VC is not in your future plans. All the BS about not knowing the plays is an excuse cause Chalmers doesn't know the plays but he is a more important player than Ennis.

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What would it take to get Nerlens from Philly?    Dude is going to be stud defensive anchor sooner than later.  Just curios asking for a friend. 

 

Probably have to start with Mike Conley since they need a PG, then go from there. 

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Probably have to start with Mike Conley since they need a PG, then go from there. 

I mean at some point they have to try to start getting real players and trying to win, right?  

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I mean at some point they have to try to start getting real players and trying to win, right?  

 

In a different thread you admit that the motion and spread offense has a ceiling. Here you say the team needs to start getting "real players" and try to win. The fact is the Grizzlies have real players and they have won and will continue to win (I hope) at a high level. 

 

If you are suggesting that the team can get a superstar to win it all (which is exactly what you said in the other thread) then be prepared for years of losing. The Warriors missed the playoffs for over 20 years before landing Curry because teams made mistakes ahead of them (Grizzlies included). The Timberwolves haven't been the playoffs since Kevin Garnett was on his first go round with the team. Even Cleveland had to be given the gift of LeBron James to turn around that franchise. 

 

Or we can make gradual changes and remain a winning team that needs more than a little luck to win it all but will consistently win games. I prefer winning to losing even if losing offers the hope of winning at a higher level in some distant future. 

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In a different thread you admit that the motion and spread offense has a ceiling. Here you say the team needs to start getting "real players" and try to win. The fact is the Grizzlies have real players and they have won and will continue to win (I hope) at a high level. 

 

If you are suggesting that the team can get a superstar to win it all (which is exactly what you said in the other thread) then be prepared for years of losing. The Warriors missed the playoffs for over 20 years before landing Curry because teams made mistakes ahead of them (Grizzlies included). The Timberwolves haven't been the playoffs since Kevin Garnett was on his first go round with the team. Even Cleveland had to be given the gift of LeBron James to turn around that franchise. 

 

Or we can make gradual changes and remain a winning team that needs more than a little luck to win it all but will consistently win games. I prefer winning to losing even if losing offers the hope of winning at a higher level in some distant future. 

Calm down Cowboy i was referring to Philly they don't have any real players and aren't trying to win.  

 

Now that you understand that you can safely watch the rest of your argument implode upon itself from the comfort of your keyboard. 

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Calm down Cowboy i was referring to Philly they don't have any real players and aren't trying to win.  

 

Now that you understand that you can safely watch the rest of your argument implode upon itself from the comfort of your keyboard. 

 

Well I think Philly is trying to get players but they have done a pathetic job of drafting healthy players. They are also trying to win. I was in Philly last year when they nearly beat the Grizzlies before Conley pulled it out at the end with that clutch 3. 

 

Just because a team isn't winning doesn't mean they don't have real players and are trying to lose, especially in November. 

 

My argument is unchanged that I prefer sticking with a winning team with our own style than trying to play some other team's style and lose. Even if losing has the outside chance of getting a superstar. 

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If they waived Ennis and signed him in Iowa that would be ideal. He's not gonna get any minutes this year anyways. They could sign him for training camp and see what he's capable of next year.

 

Ryan Hollins ain't enough to light a fire under Gasol. I've said it once i'll keep saying it; Henry Sims should be the target. We already messed up once on center just sitting there in the dleague, i hope FO doesn't do it again.

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Well I think Philly is trying to get players but they have done a pathetic job of drafting healthy players. They are also trying to win. I was in Philly last year when they nearly beat the Grizzlies before Conley pulled it out at the end with that clutch 3. 

 

Just because a team isn't winning doesn't mean they don't have real players and are trying to lose, especially in November. 

 

My argument is unchanged that I prefer sticking with a winning team with our own style than trying to play some other team's style and lose. Even if losing has the outside chance of getting a superstar. 

I think its pretty obvious Philly hasn't been trying to win but i don't really care about them so no point in debating that.

 

Our team isn't winning we are .500 and have only beaten bad teams.   Your argument should change when new data presents itself.  Besides i am not one of those saying that we need to tank to get a superstar.   I am just correctly pointing out that our old recipe for success isn't working anymore so something has to change.   It's not a matter of trying to "play another teams style" as it is recognizing what we are doing isn't working.  

 

Also Dave Joerger doesn't agree with you either because he has been trying to improve the offense since his tenure began.

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/grizzlies/joerger-hasnt-given-up-on-tweaking-griz-offense-20c5f184-5df2-663a-e053-0100007fe1c4-330348151.html

 

Grizzlies coach Dave Joerger keeps beating the drum.

In this case, he's all over eardrums with a familiar tune to his players.

The Griz must commit to playing faster and with more ball movement.

Same refrain, year three.

"My belief is that is something that can help us break through our ceiling," Joerger said. "Our offense has to be better for us to break through and get where we've never been.......

Joerger, unyielding in his desire to play a motion offense, couldn't be clearer about how this group of Griz will look after his third training camp.

"We want to spin (the ball) around and see if defense will make a mistake," Joerger said. "When we play slow, we really struggle to score. And I don't mean going up and down the court 100 miles per hour. I'm talking about moving the ball, screening hard and cutting hard. If we move the ball and put a lot of pressure on the rim, we're hoping that our free throws will go up and our points in the paint will go up. And when we do those things, it helps set our defense.""

Literally Dave said everything i have been saying about our offense and which is the reason i thought he would be a solid Lionel replacement.    So you can pretend like the Grizzlies are satisfied with their mediocre offense like you are but the Head Coach disagrees. 

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I never said I am satisfied with a mediocre offense. I said I am happier supporting a winning team than a losing one. Today, the Grizzlies are neither but for the last 5 seasons they have been a winning team. 

 

The team isn't built to run like the Hawks, Spurs, Warriors or other teams so if they attempt to play that style they will lose. Just like they have lost this year to team's playing that style. Imitation may be the finest form of flattery but the Grizzlies aren't built to compete with teams playing the other team's style. 

 

I don't disagree that a more effective offense would be to move the ball side to side, screen hard and cut hard. That doesn't mean blowing up the system. That means running the system more efficiently. Doing the little things like making a pass, setting a pick and cutting to the basket doesn't mean the team needs to radically change. In fact, I don't see that meaning any change at all outside of being more efficient in the offense they are running. 

 

Nowhere in your numerous quotes is Joerger saying to shoot more three point shots. Nowhere is he saying to run up and down the court faster. He simply is saying the team needs to be more effective in running the offense they currently have. I agree with that assessment. The offense needs to be better at what they are doing and have done for years.

 

I disagree that it needs to change unless you consider a change to be running the offense the way it is supposed to be run. You believe, and according to your comments above have believed for a long time, that Joerger would change the offensive system. Joerger isn't saying he wants to change anything from what you quoted. He just wants the team to do what they do better. 

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Josh Smith may be available. Him and a healthy Wright would give us an athletic big duo off of the bench but then again, he wore out his welcome in ATL, DET, HOU and now clashing heads in LAC. He could help us more than he's helping the paper clips though. 

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Josh Smith may be available. Him and a healthy Wright would give us an athletic bug duo off of the bench but then again, he wore out his welcome in ATL, DET, HOU and now clashing heads in LAC. He could help us more than he's helping the paper clips though.

Wallace likes Smith unfortunately

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Getting Josh Smith at this point sounds like a Chris Wallace move. He's been on his scouting report since 2008 and is now washed goods. GO GET EM CHRIS!

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They would have to trade a young guy to get him unless there is a package deal to be made clee and Vince for Stephenson and smith

 

Edit make that TA and VC for Lance and Smith

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Wallace likes Smith unfortunately

 

 

Getting Josh Smith at this point sounds like a Chris Wallace move. He's been on his scouting report since 2008 and is now washed goods. GO GET EM CHRIS!

 

 

Grizz desperately tried to get Smith last year after he was waived by Detroit.

 

 

Let me be clear, I in no way think this is the best move but it may be the best move that we can make at this point. I'm thinking he can give us about 8-10 pts and 4-5 boards off of the bench which would be better than any backup big we have now. I think a combo of him Jam Green and Brandan Wright could give us an athletic yet undersized backup trio. Not a big fan of his, but he could give us some good production off of the bench if his head is on right. 

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TA and Vince for Lance Stephenson and Josh Smith? Lol sign me up.

I just read an article that said having Lance is making LA miss Barnes. I know Lance has been bad in his last two spots but he's only 25 if we could turn this version of TA for Lance we'd have to pull the trigger. TA would be reunited with Doc and Pierce. The Clips could waive VC and go get another big if needed. With Doc as their GM I wouldn't surprised if it worked

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I never said I am satisfied with a mediocre offense. I said I am happier supporting a winning team than a losing one. Today, the Grizzlies are neither but for the last 5 seasons they have been a winning team. 

 

The team isn't built to run like the Hawks, Spurs, Warriors or other teams so if they attempt to play that style they will lose. Just like they have lost this year to team's playing that style. Imitation may be the finest form of flattery but the Grizzlies aren't built to compete with teams playing the other team's style. 

 

I don't disagree that a more effective offense would be to move the ball side to side, screen hard and cut hard. That doesn't mean blowing up the system. That means running the system more efficiently. Doing the little things like making a pass, setting a pick and cutting to the basket doesn't mean the team needs to radically change. In fact, I don't see that meaning any change at all outside of being more efficient in the offense they are running. 

 

Nowhere in your numerous quotes is Joerger saying to shoot more three point shots. Nowhere is he saying to run up and down the court faster. He simply is saying the team needs to be more effective in running the offense they currently have. I agree with that assessment. The offense needs to be better at what they are doing and have done for years.

 

I disagree that it needs to change unless you consider a change to be running the offense the way it is supposed to be run. You believe, and according to your comments above have believed for a long time, that Joerger would change the offensive system. Joerger isn't saying he wants to change anything from what you quoted. He just wants the team to do what they do better. 

You need to read the full article - not once has anyone said they need to become a running team.  That's the same cop-out excuse everyone says whenever someone mentions that our offense needs to change. 

 

Let's see if Dave believes he is simply tweaking the old offense.

 

"It's a commitment you have to make," center Marc Gasol said. "Sometimes we rest offensively because we work so hard defensively. We tend to take a deep breath and keep it simple to save our energy for the defensive end. But we need more ball and body movement than we had in the past so that we're less predictable. One of the problems we have later on in the season is that teams figure us out and do things to stop us."

 

Sometimes, the Griz will even look for each other with long out-of-bounds passes. Yet they won't have the green light to shoot off one pass and early into the shot clock against set defenses.

"I won't let that (crap) go on," Joerger said.

The emphasis is on early offense, generating easy scores, but more importantly, making a number of smart passes that keep the defense off balance and chasing the basketball.

The Griz rebelled against Joerger's offensive initiative when he took over as head coach before the 2013-14 season. Memphis got off to a slow start record-wise during the first month and quickly went back to its plodding ways.  

"There was a belief from within that we didn't need to change anything because we were just in the Western Conference finals," Joerger said. "Now, guys have grown a little bit and realized that the ball has to move for us. When you played the (Jerry Sloan-coached) Utah teams, they led the league in points in the paint; it wasn't because they were tossing it inside and the low post was killing it.

It's part of the cutting game and passing game and getting offensive rebounds. Those are ways for us to get better. It's not just Marc and Zach getting points in the paint. It's Mike Conley getting in the paint. It's Tony (Allen) on his cuts. It's Jeff Green driving the basketball. That's more of our emphasis, and then things will open up on the outside."

So what indicates that the Griz will finally make the transition to the offense Joerger envisions?

Now do you think they view it as small changes or do they view it as a new offense?  Go ahead and argue with the Coach and go ahead and assume change means "blowing up the system".   

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Smith can't be traded till January or whenever FA are available to be traded.

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