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41 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Gasol is a ball movement type of player. Evans is a ball stopping type of player. If Gasol can't play well with Tyreke because he kills ball movement how did Gasol exist so well with Zach Randolph - who some people claimed Evans was the replacement for - since they both kill ball movement? 

Personally I don't believe Evans is a great ball player for team basketball. He can take over and dominate at times but he can't lead a team to victory and his style of play is just as likely to find a ceiling short of a championship as Z-Bo did. The main difference between the two in my eyes is Randolph rose not only his level of play both those around him as well in crunch time. I haven't seen that from Evans yet but hopefully he will become that type of player. 

I would say that Tyreke is the best player the Grizz has. I don't see where he is more of a ball stopper than Gasol is, with the time it takes him to get position and receive the ball. He's averaging more points and assists than Gasol or Conley. with a better shooting % 2.

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23 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I would say that Tyreke is the best player the Grizz has. I don't see where he is more of a ball stopper than Gasol is, with the time it takes him to get position and receive the ball. He's averaging more points and assists than Gasol or Conley. with a better shooting % 2.

You are right. He's an excellent individual ball player. I never said anything to the contrary. 

I don't believe saying our point guard getting more assists than our center or a player with a bad achilles is saying a lot however. I definitely wouldn't be pointing to that as a strength of his. 

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Tyreke has been a bad pg his whole career. However this year I feel that his shooting has developed enough to where he could be a useful weapon at 2 guard. The problem is that the team is so bad that they need him to go back to pg. Its unfortunate for him because I really felt that he had something going as a backup scorer.

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45 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Tyreke has been a bad pg his whole career. However this year I feel that his shooting has developed enough to where he could be a useful weapon at 2 guard. The problem is that the team is so bad that they need him to go back to pg. Its unfortunate for him because I really felt that he had something going as a backup scorer.

The problem is Tyreke is not secured past this season, we have no bird rights, and he is counter-intuitive to what most of us want to happen this season, which is for the grizzlies to tank hard.

There is absolutely no valid reason to keeping him around. 

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33 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

You are right. He's an excellent individual ball player. I never said anything to the contrary. 

I don't believe saying our point guard getting more assists than our center or a player with a bad achilles is saying a lot however. I definitely wouldn't be pointing to that as a strength of his. 

You think Conley has had a bad achilles ever since he was a pro? Tyreke just came off a 30 point 11 assist 7 rebound game where he shot over 50% from 3 game, can you ever show me stats like that from Conley. I like ball stoppers who can do that. :) Quit trying to put the blame on Tyreke for all the inadequacies the teams he has played on. I like team ball but sometimes you just got to have a guy who can either put it in the hole or get fouled.

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3 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

You think Conley has had a bad achilles ever since he was a pro? Tyreke just came off a 30 point 11 assist 7 rebound game where he shot over 50% from 3 game, can you ever show me stats like that from Conley. I like ball stoppers who can do that. :) Quit trying to put the blame on Tyreke for all the inadequacies the teams he has played on. I like team ball but sometimes you just got to have a guy who can either put it in the hole or get fouled.

Conley never has put up numbers like that and still somehow the team has made the playoffs 7 consecutive years. I like winning more than losing while stuffing individual stats. I'm strange that way. 

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17 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

You think Conley has had a bad achilles ever since he was a pro? Tyreke just came off a 30 point 11 assist 7 rebound game where he shot over 50% from 3 game, can you ever show me stats like that from Conley. I like ball stoppers who can do that. :) Quit trying to put the blame on Tyreke for all the inadequacies the teams he has played on. I like team ball but sometimes you just got to have a guy who can either put it in the hole or get fouled.

Tyreke has missed several game winning baskets. Doesn't matter what you do if you can't close it out. The problem is that Tyreke's game is easily defended and he isn't a reliable 3 point shooter when the game is on the line so teams will just pack the paint when the ball is in his hands making it harder for him and the rest of the team to score.

When Mike is in there they HAVE to guard him at the 3 point line and he creates a ton of space for other players. That's the difference between a max player and what Tyreke is.

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12 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Tyreke has missed several game winning baskets. Doesn't matter what you do if you can't close it out. The problem is that Tyreke's game is easily defended and he isn't a reliable 3 point shooter when the game is on the line so teams will just pack the paint when the ball is in his hands making it harder for him and the rest of the team to score.

When Mike is in there they HAVE to guard him at the 3 point line and he creates a ton of space for other players. That's the difference between a max player and what Tyreke is.

Mike isn't a max player anymore.

 

Nobody would give him that contract now. It was the collective hysteria of that one summer that led to other things like Bazemore getting 18 mil/year, Deng getting 18 mil/year, harrison barnes max, Ian Mahimi getting 16 mil/year.  The list is endless

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

The problem is Tyreke is not secured past this season, we have no bird rights, and he is counter-intuitive to what most of us want to happen this season, which is for the grizzlies to tank hard.

There is absolutely no valid reason to keeping him around. 

Thats true, but because of that (no bird rights), he doesnt have much value to other teams.  He maybe worth a low first round pick at best.

Speaking of value, Gasol with the way he is playing shooting in the low 40's, his negative +/- on and off the court and not having much visible impact on the game, being slower than a lot of bigs now, his contract, and age, probably wont draw a huge haul.  The perceived value from his DPOY days is gone.

Imo, center starved teams will balk on the high price of guys like Gasol and D Jordan and pursue cheaper options like Robin Lopez and Dwayne Dedmon for low first round picks/second rounders or project players that havent panned out.

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1 hour ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Tyreke has missed several game winning baskets. Doesn't matter what you do if you can't close it out. The problem is that Tyreke's game is easily defended and he isn't a reliable 3 point shooter when the game is on the line so teams will just pack the paint when the ball is in his hands making it harder for him and the rest of the team to score.

When Mike is in there they HAVE to guard him at the 3 point line and he creates a ton of space for other players. That's the difference between a max player and what Tyreke is.

I don't know if you are crazy or just stupid. If his game was easily defended he wouldn't be putting up numbers like he has, would he? Even MJ didn't deliver every time, if he had of, they would never lost a game. You're just like GTF, you just want to stir up sheet. If Tyreke put up a 4-18 game you would be screaming bloody murder.

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Conley never has put up numbers like that and still somehow the team has made the playoffs 7 consecutive years. I like winning more than losing while stuffing individual stats. I'm strange that way. 

Fiz wanted Conley to score more, sure doesn't look like it translated into more wins for the Grizzlies to me. Looks like Fiz screwed up getting rid of Randolph and Allen to me, even though Conley had missed games before, it never translated into losing streaks like this before, so apparently it isn't about missing Conley so much as it is missing Randolph and Allen. They had been together for so long they knew how to compensate losing 1 player. They just lost Tony at the wrong time last year and that was Fiz fault.

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10 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Fiz wanted Conley to score more, sure doesn't look like it translated into more wins for the Grizzlies to me. Looks like Fiz screwed up getting rid of Randolph and Allen to me, even though Conley had missed games before, it never translated into losing streaks like this before, so apparently it isn't about missing Conley so much as it is missing Randolph and Allen. They had been together for so long they knew how to compensate losing 1 player. They just lost Tony at the wrong time last year and that was Fiz fault.

I can't place blame on who between the front office and coaching staff made errors but it seems clear that losing Z-Bo and TA for nothing and signing Tyreke to replace Z-Bo was a mistake.

I don't harbor any ill will toward Tyreke. He's doing what he knows how to do. I just don't believe his style of play leads to a winning atmosphere. He gets his and everyone else stands around and waits for the scraps left over when Evans isn't able to get his shot.

It worked against the depleted Clippers but overall the record the Grizzlies have posted is eerily similar to what the Pelicans posted when Evans was healthy and the Kings too. The one constant between all of these situations has been Evans. 

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A playoff team will trade for Tyreke with the role of instant offense off the bench in their mind.

Grizz definitely don't need to ride with Tyreke the entirety of the season only to watch him walk.

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18 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I can't place blame on who between the front office and coaching staff made errors but it seems clear that losing Z-Bo and TA for nothing and signing Tyreke to replace Z-Bo was a mistake.

I don't harbor any ill will toward Tyreke. He's doing what he knows how to do. I just don't believe his style of play leads to a winning atmosphere. He gets his and everyone else stands around and waits for the scraps left over when Evans isn't able to get his shot.

It worked against the depleted Clippers but overall the record the Grizzlies have posted is eerily similar to what the Pelicans posted when Evans was healthy and the Kings too. The one constant between all of these situations has been Evans. 

 

27 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

Fiz wanted Conley to score more, sure doesn't look like it translated into more wins for the Grizzlies to me. Looks like Fiz screwed up getting rid of Randolph and Allen to me, even though Conley had missed games before, it never translated into losing streaks like this before, so apparently it isn't about missing Conley so much as it is missing Randolph and Allen. They had been together for so long they knew how to compensate losing 1 player. They just lost Tony at the wrong time last year and that was Fiz fault.

The Grizzlies went 3-17 with Allen and Zbo in the lineup last year

 

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12 minutes ago, Allen said:

 

The Grizzlies went 3-17 with Allen and Zbo in the lineup last year

 

When was that? I don't believe the Grizzlies ever went 3-17 last season with or without Z-Bo and Allen. Could you tell me the dates that this occurred? 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

When was that? I don't believe the Grizzlies ever went 3-17 last season with or without Z-Bo and Allen. Could you tell me the dates that this occurred? 

      Meant two years ago when they were 34

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47 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I can't place blame on who between the front office and coaching staff made errors but it seems clear that losing Z-Bo and TA for nothing and signing Tyreke to replace Z-Bo was a mistake.

I don't harbor any ill will toward Tyreke. He's doing what he knows how to do. I just don't believe his style of play leads to a winning atmosphere. He gets his and everyone else stands around and waits for the scraps left over when Evans isn't able to get his shot.

It worked against the depleted Clippers but overall the record the Grizzlies have posted is eerily similar to what the Pelicans posted when Evans was healthy and the Kings too. The one constant between all of these situations has been Evans. 

Do you think the Grizzlies would have a better record right now if there were no Tyreke? Or a worse record?

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53 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I can't place blame on who between the front office and coaching staff made errors but it seems clear that losing Z-Bo and TA for nothing and signing Tyreke to replace Z-Bo was a mistake.

I don't harbor any ill will toward Tyreke. He's doing what he knows how to do. I just don't believe his style of play leads to a winning atmosphere. He gets his and everyone else stands around and waits for the scraps left over when Evans isn't able to get his shot.

It worked against the depleted Clippers but overall the record the Grizzlies have posted is eerily similar to what the Pelicans posted when Evans was healthy and the Kings too. The one constant between all of these situations has been Evans. 

I don't see a mistake in signing Tyreke, the mistake was in giving Conley so much money that they couldn't sign other players 2. He has replaced Zs scoring but the chemistry of the team was destroyed. Other players aren't just standing around when he gets 11 assists, I think he may have had a 12 assist game 2, not sure about that though. If he wasn't on this team they may have had about 4 wins. If the goal of the last game last year wasn't to win, why was the starters even playing? It could be said that Fiz screwed himself in that game by playing them.

I didn't get to watch the Kings or Pelicans enough to have an opinion about him but I know Cousins and Davis was the go to guys on those teams.  Wasn't Tyreke with the Kings when Rudy went there?

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19 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I don't see a mistake in signing Tyreke, the mistake was in giving Conley so much money that they couldn't sign other players 2. He has replaced Zs scoring but the chemistry of the team was destroyed. Other players aren't just standing around when he gets 11 assists, I think he may have had a 12 assist game 2, not sure about that though. If he wasn't on this team they may have had about 4 wins. If the goal of the last game last year wasn't to win, why was the starters even playing? It could be said that Fiz screwed himself in that game by playing them.

I didn't get to watch the Kings or Pelicans enough to have an opinion about him but I know Cousins and Davis was the go to guys on those teams.  Wasn't Tyreke with the Kings when Rudy went there?

Yes. Evans played with Rudy in Sacramento. He played with Davis in New Orleans. 

Allen Iverson got a lot of assists too but he wasn't interested in involving others in the offense either. He drives, drives, drives and then dishes as the clock is running out to someone who either makes the shot or not. Players can get a lot of assists that way without trying to involve anyone else in the offense. That's what I see Evans doing a lot. 

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58 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

A playoff team will trade for Tyreke with the role of instant offense off the bench in their mind.

Grizz definitely don't need to ride with Tyreke the entirety of the season only to watch him walk.

Who do we get for Reke? His contract is only 3.3M. We will prolly get a scrub for that price unless a team is willing to take on a few more scrubs from us.

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19 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Yes. Evans played with Rudy in Sacramento. He played with Davis in New Orleans. 

Allen Iverson got a lot of assists too but he wasn't interested in involving others in the offense either. He drives, drives, drives and then dishes as the clock is running out to someone who either makes the shot or not. Players can get a lot of assists that way without trying to involve anyone else in the offense. That's what I see Evans doing a lot. 

What's the difference in MC driving and dishing and Tyreke doing the same thing? If Conley could shoot, he would shoot 2.

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25 minutes ago, grizz1016 said:

Who do we get for Reke? His contract is only 3.3M. We will prolly get a scrub for that price unless a team is willing to take on a few more scrubs from us.

You would hope a young talent on rookie contract from a win-now team - like Raptors or Wizards.

Similar situation to the Cavs giving up Wiggins to get Love.

Maybe take a flyer on Oubre - run a lot of Davis/Rabb/Brooks/Oubre/Simmons lineups to end the year.

Trade Gasol/Tyreke for Oubre/Gortat and filler (exceptions/2nd round picks) and then next year, turn around and trade Gortat for value (2 years left on contract at lower amount than Gasol).

Something like that with a playoff team that may think they have a small window.

Etc.

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6 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

You would hope a young talent on rookie contract from a win-now team - like Raptors or Wizards.

Similar situation to the Cavs giving up Wiggins to get Love.

Maybe take a flyer on Oubre - run a lot of Davis/Rabb/Brooks/Oubre/Simmons lineups to end the year.

Trade Gasol/Tyreke for Oubre/Gortat and filler (exceptions/2nd round picks) and then next year, turn around and trade Gortat for value (2 years left on contract at lower amount than Gasol).

Something like that with a playoff team that may think they have a small window.

Etc.

Giving away both Reke and Gasol is a bad idea IMO

If Wizards are willing to part with Oubre, then that would work.

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2 hours ago, Dwash said:

Thats true, but because of that (no bird rights), he doesnt have much value to other teams.  He maybe worth a low first round pick at best.

Speaking of value, Gasol with the way he is playing shooting in the low 40's, his negative +/- on and off the court and not having much visible impact on the game, being slower than a lot of bigs now, his contract, and age, probably wont draw a huge haul.  The perceived value from his DPOY days is gone.

Imo, center starved teams will balk on the high price of guys like Gasol and D Jordan and pursue cheaper options like Robin Lopez and Dwayne Dedmon for low first round picks/second rounders or project players that havent panned out.

 

It really depends on the team - you aren't just trading the player, you are leveraging the situation.

Find that playoff team sitting at the 6 spot who is getting desperate to add a player - dangle a 6-6 guard with handles who can fill it up and is on a 1 year deal for $3.3 million.

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