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PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

Late Bloomers...are Gasol And Randolph Just Entering Their Prime

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HOLD ON HOLD ON....before you go calling me crazy just think about it....most of use would agree that gasol is entering his prime physically and skill wise...but many my say im crazy considering randolph...first off this has little to do with numbers with randolph because i see his numbers droping off sum not because of age but because of the emergence of conley and gasol...i believe his ppg will drop but still be just as effective...one thing imo that was overlooked last year was the physical stat of randolph...prob because of the gasol injury...but randolph was in sum of the best shape in his life...as long as i have been seeing randolph play last year was the only time where i can remember him having multi dunks in a season...the point im trying to make is...that i believe gasol and randolph are far away from starting to decline...some say the GNG era is coming to a close...but i see around 3/4 more season of randolph playing at a high level...with gasol being around 4/5 more seasons...conley should have atleast 5 more season too...if adams and stokes can become the players i believe they can...i see use grizzlies winning a championship..if not this year...in the next 3/4 years....whats your thoughts

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Because of their style of play, the only thing that would cause their skills to diminish is loss of speed. They don't depend on athleticism, so I can see them being effective for another 3 years. Z-Bo probably retires after his current deal, and hopefully Stokes will have developed into a viable replacement to pair with Gasol. I still definitely would not call them late bloomers.

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Zbo was in his prime in the 2011 playoffs, I don't think there is really any argument against it. The guy was unreal.

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^ Exactly. I highly doubt we'll ever see that ZBo again. The season after, he was an entirely different player.

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Zbo was in his prime in the 2011 playoffs, I don't think there is really any argument against it. The guy was unreal.

 

This. Since June 2011 no power foward has been at that level working inside the paint.

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I understand the thinking that Zach has gone downhill since 2011, but I dont think age is the total culprit. Its not that simple.

 

Quick recap of the team since 2011 playoffs. You had the season that OJ rolled up on Zach's knee and he missed however many games he missed and was never the same the rest of the season/playoffs.

 

Then last year, Marc was hurt for 23 games. When Marc is not there, surely we can all agree that Zach becomes less effective for obvious reasons. Teams can simply concentrate on Zach and it takes him out of the game.

 

Also, after the 2011 playoffs, one of the greatest NBA coaches in history changed the way his team played MEM/Zach. Pops simply said I am going to do anything and everything to take Zach and the lane away as an option for the Grizzlies. If MEM can beat me from midrange and outside, then so be it, but Im not going to have another 2011 playoffs again. And it worked. MEM could not score enough from the outside to win.

 

Its a copy cat league and Pops gave the league the blueprint. We have seen teams put a young, long, tall, athletic big on Zach and tell him to just lay all over him. Deny him the ball, make him work like a dog to even get the ball and by the time he gets it, the shot clock will be down so low that he wont have time to get to the rim from way out where he was forced to come to get the ball.

 

My point is that injuries and a blue print from a Hall of Fame coach have made it much more difficult for Zach to maintain his numbers. If teams would play Zach the way Pops did in 2011 or say the way PHO did a couple years ago when he went for 38 and 22, his numbers would probably be close to the same because athletic ability was never the basis for Zach's success.

 

But MEM inability to figure out how to score from the outside has given teams a green light to just sell out and smother Zach a lot of the time. Nobody would be able to maintain lofty stats when facing defenses like he has faced with no help from the rest of the team to open the lane up.

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I understand the thinking that Zach has gone downhill since 2011, but I dont think age is the total culprit. Its not that simple. Quick recap of the team since 2011 playoffs. You had the season that OJ rolled up on Zach's knee and he missed however many games he missed and was never the same the rest of the season/playoffs. Then last year, Marc was hurt for 23 games. When Marc is not there, surely we can all agree that Zach becomes less effective for obvious reasons. Teams can simply concentrate on Zach and it takes him out of the game. Also, after the 2011 playoffs, one of the greatest NBA coaches in history changed the way his team played MEM/Zach. Pops simply said I am going to do anything and everything to take Zach and the lane away as an option for the Grizzlies. If MEM can beat me from midrange and outside, then so be it, but Im not going to have another 2011 playoffs again. And it worked. MEM could not score enough from the outside to win. Its a copy cat league and Pops gave the league the blueprint. We have seen teams put a young, long, tall, athletic big on Zach and tell him to just lay all over him. Deny him the ball, make him work like a dog to even get the ball and by the time he gets it, the shot clock will be down so low that he wont have time to get to the rim from way out where he was forced to come to get the ball. My point is that injuries and a blue print from a Hall of Fame coach have made it much more difficult for Zach to maintain his numbers. If teams would play Zach the way Pops did in 2011 or say the way PHO did a couple years ago when he went for 38 and 22, his numbers would probably be close to the same because athletic ability was never the basis for Zach's success. But MEM inability to figure out how to score from the outside has given teams a green light to just sell out and smother Zach a lot of the time. Nobody would be able to maintain lofty stats when facing defenses like he has faced with no help from the rest of the team to open the lane up.

 

^^ This is "dead on" and I'm not real sure they have the perimeter guys this year that can consistently light it up so Zbo will have the space he needs to be effective inside. I hope so but.......

 

Go Grizz!!

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I understand the thinking that Zach has gone downhill since 2011, but I dont think age is the total culprit. Its not that simple.

 

Quick recap of the team since 2011 playoffs. You had the season that OJ rolled up on Zach's knee and he missed however many games he missed and was never the same the rest of the season/playoffs.

 

Then last year, Marc was hurt for 23 games. When Marc is not there, surely we can all agree that Zach becomes less effective for obvious reasons. Teams can simply concentrate on Zach and it takes him out of the game.

 

Also, after the 2011 playoffs, one of the greatest NBA coaches in history changed the way his team played MEM/Zach. Pops simply said I am going to do anything and everything to take Zach and the lane away as an option for the Grizzlies. If MEM can beat me from midrange and outside, then so be it, but Im not going to have another 2011 playoffs again. And it worked. MEM could not score enough from the outside to win.

 

Its a copy cat league and Pops gave the league the blueprint. We have seen teams put a young, long, tall, athletic big on Zach and tell him to just lay all over him. Deny him the ball, make him work like a dog to even get the ball and by the time he gets it, the shot clock will be down so low that he wont have time to get to the rim from way out where he was forced to come to get the ball.

 

My point is that injuries and a blue print from a Hall of Fame coach have made it much more difficult for Zach to maintain his numbers. If teams would play Zach the way Pops did in 2011 or say the way PHO did a couple years ago when he went for 38 and 22, his numbers would probably be close to the same because athletic ability was never the basis for Zach's success.

 

But MEM inability to figure out how to score from the outside has given teams a green light to just sell out and smother Zach a lot of the time. Nobody would be able to maintain lofty stats when facing defenses like he has faced with no help from the rest of the team to open the lane up.

 

Totally agree with this assessment.

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... My point is that injuries and a blue print from a Hall of Fame coach have made it much more difficult for Zach to maintain his numbers. If teams would play Zach the way Pops did in 2011 or say the way PHO did a couple years ago when he went for 38 and 22, his numbers would probably be close to the same because athletic ability was never the basis for Zach's success. But MEM inability to figure out how to score from the outside has given teams a green light to just sell out and smother Zach a lot of the time. Nobody would be able to maintain lofty stats when facing defenses like he has faced with no help from the rest of the team to open the lane up.
Not true. ZBo actually had a higher points per game average when Marc was out than he did for the whole season. Pops has shut down ZBo since the 2011 playoffs, not just this past season. The team also had more threats from the perimeter last season than in the 2011 playoffs.

What is true is that ZBo was in a contract year last season and took more shots per minute than ever as a Grizzly, and had more 20/10 games before halfway through last season than the previous two seasons combined.

ZBo peaked in the 2010/11 season. Every year since then his numbers at the rim and from 3 to 10 feet away have declined. All NBA players decline once they hit their 30's. Sorry guys, but ZBo is not an exception to the rule that you can't beat Father Time.

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thanks for the input guys...the season is going to be starting in a while...guess we'll see who is right or wrong...also shout out to Grant Hill...he thinks were a top five team in the league...i believe we have a good chance of winning it all this year...we can beat the warriors,rockets,thunder,clippers,blazers,dallas, wizards,cleveland or chicago in a 7 game series...the only team i think we couldnt beat is the spurs...hopefully someone else eliminates them for us

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Well, ok, I wouldn't call it prime, but the ability to maintain a high level of play for years past the norm.

 

Their style of play is less dependent on athleticism.

 

Pera is willing to invest in keeping the workhorses at the plow.

 

And from the wish list: The Griz have finally developed a more balanced attack allowing them to play Spurs-old-guy minutes.

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Z-bo clearly struggles against guys with length,Also guys who are smart on D. I feel that if we open up our three point game, teams cant Double team. Thats why im open to TA and prince leaving. i love what tony brings to the table, but i feel that C Lee and Adams can be good enough on Offensive to make up for TA on D. i would package TA and prince, and see what i can get. Not budinger, because of his contract but a team that needs Vets on D.That would bring ZBO back closer to the old ZBO

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Not to make this into a trade fantasy thread but I would love it if we could get our hands on Corey Brewer around the trade deadline. Maybe some kind of 3 team trade involving Barea, Brewer, Prince and another team? I think he could be the final piece that pushes us over the top. Imagine this

 

Conley/Calathes/Beno

Lee/Allen/Adams

Brewer/Carter

Zbo/Leuer/Stokes

Gasol/KK/Turiaf

 

That's a potential 60 win team if healthy

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Both ZBo and Marc rely on skill rather than sheer athleticism. They both have "old man games". I believe they can both have many more productive years in this league as long as they work on their conditioning and stay in basketball-shape. They should decline gracefully with age.

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Both ZBo and Marc rely on skill rather than sheer athleticism. They both have "old man games". I believe they can both have many more productive years in this league as long as they work on their conditioning and stay in basketball-shape. They should decline gracefully with age.
thats the point i was trying to make...with todays medical tech...gasol and randolph could be in very good shape up until atleast their mid 30's...heck there are 60yr pro bodybuilders...not say they are bodybuilders...but if they take care of themselves they game should get better with age...becuase their games are based on skills and b-ball iq...and should get better with exp...to the people that want to get rid ot TA...i do not agree with you...i would love for TA to retire a grizz and be some how involed with the grizz org as an def coach...same goes for randoph and gasol as a big man coach...and conley as a pg coach...great org need ex nba players mentoring the young players...a good way to get the best out of the draft

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Not true. ZBo actually had a higher points per game average when Marc was out than he did for the whole season. Pops has shut down ZBo since the 2011 playoffs, not just this past season. The team also had more threats from the perimeter last season than in the 2011 playoffs.

What is true is that ZBo was in a contract year last season and took more shots per minute than ever as a Grizzly, and had more 20/10 games before halfway through last season than the previous two seasons combined.

ZBo peaked in the 2010/11 season. Every year since then his numbers at the rim and from 3 to 10 feet away have declined. All NBA players decline once they hit their 30's. Sorry guys, but ZBo is not an exception to the rule that you can't beat Father Time.

 

I don't think anyone would say Father Time is not an issue. Also he said "after the 2011 playoffs" not just last season.

 

But Zach's PPG when Marc was out was in line with his season average. Not only that, but his FG% dropped showing he was less effective as south said.

 

For the season: 17.4/10.1/46.7% (7.1-15.2)

Marc's injury period: 17.6/11.1/42.2% (6.8-16.1)

 

So he took almost one shot per game more while having a slight drop in his made FGs. His rebounding increase came on the defensive side as his offensive rebounding stayed the same. He also took and made one more FT per game during Marc's time out which helped maintain his scoring average.

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thats the point i was trying to make...with todays medical tech...gasol and randolph could be in very good shape up until atleast their mid 30's...heck there are 60yr pro bodybuilders...not say they are bodybuilders...but if they take care of themselves they game should get better with age...becuase their games are based on skills and b-ball iq...and should get better with exp...to the people that want to get rid ot TA...i do not agree with you...i would love for TA to retire a grizz and be some how involed with the grizz org as an def coach...same goes for randoph and gasol as a big man coach...and conley as a pg coach...great org need ex nba players mentoring the young players...a good way to get the best out of the draft

 

That would be awesome from my point-of-view. If the Grizzlies franchise (and the city of Memphis in general) can get a reputation for showing loyalty to its long-time players, perhaps it would help distinguish us from a lot of franchises and cities. ZBo, Marc, Tony, and Mike have all invested their personal time and energy into the city and franchise ... that makes them worthy (at least for us fans) of our respect and loyalty. Maybe its wishful thinking, but who knows ... a franchise with the reputation for loyalty may affect decisions of future players on whether to sign (or re-sign) with the Grizzlies in the future. It certainly wouldn't hurt. Its not always about money for many of these basketball stars ... respect, loyalty, and a nice place to call home has its appeal too.

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I don't think anyone would say Father Time is not an issue. Also he said "after the 2011 playoffs" not just last season. But Zach's PPG when Marc was out was in line with his season average. Not only that, but his FG% dropped showing he was less effective as south said. For the season: 17.4/10.1/46.7% (7.1-15.2) Marc's injury period: 17.6/11.1/42.2% (6.8-16.1) So he took almost one shot per game more while having a slight drop in his made FGs. His rebounding increase came on the defensive side as his offensive rebounding stayed the same. He also took and made one more FT per game during Marc's time out which helped maintain his scoring average.
The whole thing is that everyone would expect a big drop in production from ZBo playing without Marc and that was not the case. ZBo's decline has been steady, as it is with any NBA player when they are no longer in their 20's. His aging, IMO, is the main reason for his continued decline, more so than injuries to teammates and the Spurs defense, as it was mentioned above.

I was actually very surprised that his numbers didn't fall off a cliff without Marc playing. Where his decline will probably become more evident will be on the defensive end, especially against stretch 4's. I believe that this makes an even stronger arguement for the team to trade for a decent starting SF to help counter ZBo's defensive problems with the stretch 4's.

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Pelicans - Anthony Davis, Asik, and/or Ryan Anderson

Mavs - Tyson Chandler and Dirk

Spurs - Duncan and Splitter

Rockets- Dwight Howard, Jones and/or Motiejunas

 

Looks like the worst bigs combo in our division includes Dwight Howard.

Marc and ZBo will have their work cut out for them this season. There won't be much breathing room in the Southwest division this season.

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Don't want to use pre-season as a judge, but Zbo hasn't looked good at all.

 

He looks to be on a serious decine and unable to get his shot off.

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The whole thing is that everyone would expect a big drop in production from ZBo playing without Marc and that was not the case. ZBo's decline has been steady, as it is with any NBA player when they are no longer in their 20's. His aging, IMO, is the main reason for his continued decline, more so than injuries to teammates and the Spurs defense, as it was mentioned above.

I was actually very surprised that his numbers didn't fall off a cliff without Marc playing. Where his decline will probably become more evident will be on the defensive end, especially against stretch 4's. I believe that this makes an even stronger arguement for the team to trade for a decent starting SF to help counter ZBo's defensive problems with the stretch 4's.

 

I wouldn't. I would have assumed he would get more shots with Marc out of the way. The fact that he really didn't was rather surprising to me. The lower FG% was not surprising though.

 

And don't forget it was his own injury that was mentioned as a part of the issue which I agree with. It's not just age IMO.

 

And Zach has always been terrible at perimeter defense. I don't think we'll see any notable changes there. :lol:

 

Don't want to use pre-season as a judge, but Zbo hasn't looked good at all.

 

He looks to be on a serious decine and unable to get his shot off.

 

Zach does not like the preseason and just seems to be going through the motions right now to me.

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