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Thaigrizzly

How Could Trading Away Zbo Improve Us As A Team?

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Some say we should trade Zbo. Not that I completely disagree with that notion but I've been wondering "How

could we improve as a team by trading away Zbo?"

 

Sure, trading him away will free up a lot of cap space, we will have more flexibility in managing our roster but

without him, our culture of Grit and Grind will change forever IMO.

 

We are essentially known as an Inside-Out team. We bully opponents' frontcourts with size and aggressiveness of Zbo and Gasol. We keep pounding inside again and again and I think it's fair to say

they are feared throughout the league as they can be unstoppable on their day.

 

I still don't know if Marc would be able to step up his game a notch as a scorer if Zbo were to depart. He's got

to be more aggressive in the paint IMO. And I don't really see someone available who can replicate what Zbo does if we were to replace him. We might probably have to change our playing style too.

 

Thoughts?

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Some say we should trade Zbo. Not that I completely disagree with that notion but I've been wondering "How

could we improve as a team by trading away Zbo?"

 

Sure, trading him away will free up a lot of cap space, we will have more flexibility in managing our roster but

without him, our culture of Grit and Grind will change forever IMO.

 

We are essentially known as an Inside-Out team. We bully opponents' frontcourts with size and aggressiveness of Zbo and Gasol. We keep pounding inside again and again and I think it's fair to say

they are feared throughout the league as they can be unstoppable on their day.

 

I still don't know if Marc would be able to step up his game a notch as a scorer if Zbo were to depart. He's got

to be more aggressive in the paint IMO. And I don't really see someone available who can replicate what Zbo does if we were to replace him. We might probably have to change our playing style too.

 

Thoughts?

Cap space is key. The front office obviously wants to go the "Money Ball" route, they need flexibility to do it.

 

The second reason trading him makes this team better is that's 1 less Alfa dog for Marc to defer to. As Marc's touches increase he stays just as efficient so extra touches for him means more efficient possessions for our offense.

 

The 3rd reason is team structure. With a great passing big man and a good passing PG what you need most is spacing and shooting. And this goes back to money, with Z Bo's contract we can't add those pieces. And we have a serviceable replacement for him in Ed Davis, but we don't have shooting.

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If Zbo is not here we need to find a cheaper guy capable of being a leading scorer because Conley/Gasol are not it. Good luck with that. When Marc gets a better power move than that running statue of liberty fading hook garbage then maybe he can be that guy. Until then he is just a jumpshooting big man.

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If Zbo is not here we need to find a cheaper guy capable of being a leading scorer because Conley/Gasol are not it. Good luck with that.

ZBo is gonna make 18m plenty of scorers cheaper than that

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If Zbo is not here we need to find a cheaper guy capable of being a leading scorer because Conley/Gasol are not it. Good luck with that. When Marc gets a better power move than that running statue of liberty fading hook garbage then maybe he can be that guy. Until then he is just a jumpshooting big man.

Agreed..but a little less harsh. :)

 

Trading ZBo completely cripples us offensively unless his replacement is a legit proven scorer. But then..who replaces his rebounds?

 

Not saying it cant be done but it would have to be a great swindle by the FO.

 

One benefit of trading him though would be..in theory...we would go from 6 guys you can trust in the playoffs to 8 or 9..which is always good.

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ZBo is gonna make 18m plenty of scorers cheaper than that

 

Like who? Don't give a crappy *** shot jacker like Monta Ellis. Give me this list of "plenty" that can consistently get good shots for themselves and shoot in the high 40's or 50%. That are available. And might command less.

 

Al Jefferson is one guy that I see. He isn't as physical but he is taller and looks longer so fronting would not work as easily.

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Agreed..but a little less harsh. :)/> Trading ZBo completely cripples us offensively unless his replacement is a legit proven scorer. But then..who replaces his rebounds? Not saying it cant be done but it would have to be a great swindle by the FO. One benefit of trading him though would be..in theory...we would go from 6 guys you can trust in the playoffs to 8 or 9..which is always good.

 

Ok, sorry, but this go to Marc in the post more stuff is killing me. There are difference between a really big body that can shoot and a scorer. Just because you can do the first doesn't mean you can be the second one. He had 2 months without Zbo and he still averaged 15 ppg. Because that is what he is. A 15 point player.

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That's why we need to push to get ZBo to MIlwaukee in a S&T featuring Redick and Ilyasova. Ilyasova shot like 43-44% from 3 last season and is the perfect stretch 4 for us to play alongside Davis, Gasol and hopefully Oden.

 

That's a start. I think the front office is moving far away from the pound it inside type of style, that's why I do not see us keeping Zach nor do I see us going after a big man that plays similar to him.

 

And why are we so stuck on points per game? Does everyone realize that ZBo averaged 15.4ppg this season? We are not talking about moving the ZBo who averaged 20 and 10 throughout the season. And taking a 2 month sample size of what Marc would do as the primary option alongside Conley is not going to tell you much. If we are building this team with an efficient model, why are trying to hold on to a guy that was one of the most inefficient players in the league at his position during the past two seasons?

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If Zbo is not here we need to find a cheaper guy capable of being a leading scorer because Conley/Gasol are not it. Good luck with that. When Marc gets a better power move than that running statue of liberty fading hook garbage then maybe he can be that guy. Until then he is just a jumpshooting big man.

 

That is what a lot of the "trade Zbo" crowd are missing - Marc is not a legit # 1 scoring option at least not yet.

 

We would also definitely miss his rebounding. If we traded him for a legit scorer and say Reggie Evans then, in theory, that could work.

 

Just a huge gamble trading him away at this point, IMO.

 

If we get better perimeter shooters around Zbo I feel like he could be more effective in the paint. The only problem with Zbo is that he cannot get his shot up over taller, talented defenders and his outside shot seems to have totally left him.

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That's why we need to push to get ZBo to MIlwaukee in a S&T featuring Redick and Ilyasova. Ilyasova shot like 43-44% from 3 last season and is the perfect stretch 4 for us to play alongside Davis, Gasol and hopefully Oden.

 

 

This is what KBM was preaching too.

 

Where do our rebounds come from then? I am NOT saying this couldn't work, but it would mean all of our players would need to drastically change their style of play, IMO.

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That's why we need to push to get ZBo to MIlwaukee in a S&T featuring Redick and Ilyasova. Ilyasova shot like 43-44% from 3 last season and is the perfect stretch 4 for us to play alongside Davis, Gasol and hopefully Oden. That's a start. I think the front office is moving far away from the pound it inside type of style, that's why I do not see us keeping Zach nor do I see us going after a big man that plays similar to him. And why are we so stuck on points per game? Does everyone realize that ZBo averaged 15.4ppg this season? We are not talking about moving the ZBo who averaged 20 and 10 throughout the season. And taking a 2 month sample size of what Marc would do as the primary option alongside Conley is not going to tell you much. If we are building this team with an efficient model, why are trying to hold on to a guy that was one of the most inefficient players in the league at his position during the past two seasons?

 

It's simple, we were a horrible offensive team this regular season with Zbo averaging 15.4 ppg. When Zbo averaged close to 20 ppg in the playoffs, we became a decent enough offensive team to win a couple of series. When the Spurs used Prince to make Zbo a crappy player again, we became a horrible offensive team again. So we need somebody who can average more than 15 ppg and do it efficiently. It doesn't have to be Zbo, but it's an element that needs to exist to be a serious contender.

 

I don't disagree that the FO wants to go away from the pound it inside mentality but I want to be on record as saying what a huge mistake I think it is. I know some don't like it but the Grizzlies became a contender or a "team built for the playoffs" because of that mentality. It reminds me of when the Celtics went away from grind it out ball with Perkins/Posey/Tony Allen to more Rondo ball just because Rondo was younger and it looked like he was what was hot. And after a title and ECF title we never heard from them again.

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The only problem with Zbo is that he cannot get his shot up over taller, talented defenders and his outside shot seems to have totally left him.

 

And this is why it would not really matter if we did add perimeter depth around him, not to mention how hard it would be to do so with his salary still on the books.

 

In terms of rebounds....we have one of the best rebounding guard tandems in the league in Conley and TA. Davis is a good rebounder and this should not be overlooked. Davis is very capable of pulling down at least 8-9 boards a game. Davis grabs 17.4% of total rebounds when he is on the floor. In comparison, Randolph grabs 19.3%.

 

Where we lack in rebounding, we make up for in speed, shot blocking and athleticism. Its the same thing when people advocated for having Prince over Rudy. We traded athleticism and quickness for better ball handling and more disciplined defense. It can work, we are just so use to seeing ZBo here that its hard to visualize it working.

 

Memphis will not go away from their mentality as a tough, gritty team. That's our main mentality and the main reason why keeping TA is a little more important in my book compared to ZBo. The front office also mentioned that keeping TA is a #1 priority. TA brought this mentality to our team. Zach was here along with everyone else before him and we never had that mentality. We have already started to go away from the pound it inside scheme, so I expect for us improve away from that area even more this offseason.

 

 

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That is what a lot of the "trade Zbo" crowd are missing - Marc is not a legit # 1 scoring option at least not yet. We would also definitely miss his rebounding. If we traded him for a legit scorer and say Reggie Evans then, in theory, that could work. Just a huge gamble trading him away at this point, IMO. If we get better perimeter shooters around Zbo I feel like he could be more effective in the paint. The only problem with Zbo is that he cannot get his shot up over taller, talented defenders and his outside shot seems to have totally left him.

 

Yeah, we won't totally suck or anything like that we just aren't a serious contender anymore. They will still be good solid playoff team.

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People tend to realize that you have to find a team willing to take on 34 million in salery. To do that they have to send us some pretty good players too......Zach would be a huge risk for other teams to take. He will be here this year, maybe next year with his expiring someone would do a trade.

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I think another thing some of us are not seeing eye to eye on is that if we keep ZBo and truly want to improve this team, I don't see us moving Ed Davis, Tony Wroten or Quincy Pondexter. Some people think we will attempt to move them to get good value, but I simply do not see that.

 

 

The only players I see us realistically moving or letting go (that was a rotational player last season) are DA and Bayless. If you think letting those guys go, re-signing TA to a bigger contract, keeping Prince (who I think is untradeable unless you package him with a worthy asset), AND keeping ZBo will allow this team to improve, then I would like to see that. That's without trading our 3 young guys.

 

So, lets say we move DA without taking any salary back and Bayless walks...

 

$55.4M on the books. I'm not factoring in Daye's option or anything because I just don't see us picking that up. They may pick up Leuer's $1M, but just to give us as much cap room as possible, we are going to stay away from adding him. I'm not even going to factor in draft picks either, so I'm really helping you guys out.

 

Let's say $5M goes to TA. Now, we are looking at close to $61M. Now remember, we do not want to get very close to the luxury tax. We were at $63M this past season after all the trades were made. Let's say we have the full MLE to use on a player like Redick. Now, we are looking at $65-66M and we still have to add draft picks, a true center, a possible backup PG (unless Wroten will be that guy).

 

Do you see what I mean?

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BHZMAFIA, I agree with you, I see this team pretty much being the same next year, except for a few players. I just hope the few players make a differance. I see Qpon starting and playing more minutes, with Prince backing him up.

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We become a 45-50 win team again without ZBo. It would be sink-or-swim time for Ed Davis.

I think we are a 50 win team with Zbo too, it will depend on whomever else steps up!

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That is what a lot of the "trade Zbo" crowd are missing - Marc is not a legit # 1 scoring option at least not yet.

 

We would also definitely miss his rebounding. If we traded him for a legit scorer and say Reggie Evans then, in theory, that could work.

 

Just a huge gamble trading him away at this point, IMO.

 

If we get better perimeter shooters around Zbo I feel like he could be more effective in the paint. The only problem with Zbo is that he cannot get his shot up over taller, talented defenders and his outside shot seems to have totally left him.

I like Reggie Evans rebounding but again..hes undersized. Ibaka/Perkins...Duncan/Splitter..these are legit 6'10"-7 ft guys. We need another 6'11" PF next to Marc that can rebound and defend. And is not a liabilty on offense.

 

Hope Anderson Varejao is healthy next season.

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I would send zbo to the nets imho.

We could get humps,brooks,1st

 

I would find a 3rd team that wants humps and the pick or brooks .

Orl,cha,mil maybe even Phx ,would all love humps contact and we could get a more useful piece.

 

Nets - zbo

Orl - humps,brooks wroton

Mem- afflalo,BBD nets 1st

 

Saves us 3.5m or so this year.

 

 

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And for those who think we would lack guys who can score over 15ppg, Conley was close to averaging 17ppg after the Rudy trade. Marc Gasol was averaging 15+ after the trade. ZBO was the only player out of the core group of guys who's PPG did not improve drastically after the trade.

 

The way I envision this team without ZBo (while keeping TA), is a team that still has the same gritty style of play, one of the best defensive teams in the league (since ZBO did not have much to do with that), one of the best offensive teams in the league (because we would bring in high IQ level players and great shooters) and a much faster pace. We will be a team that can play in the halfcourt and play uptempo. When the half court game is not working, we can transform into a uptempo team against the likes of the Spurs, Thunder, Nuggets or whoever. We will have the players that are capable of getting up and down the court and making shots.

 

We have one of the fastest PG's in the league, yet he is forced to slow the pace down because we have two bigs who love playing in the halfcourt. We cannot do that for another season, I'm sorry.

 

Tell me how will a team defend the Conley and Gasol pick and roll, when you have players like Q, Redick, Ilyasova, etc on the perimeter? This is exactly what makes the Parker and Duncan pick and roll so dangerous. I mean how can you defend it? If teams know that you are going to Zach Randolph late in the game, the only thing they have to do is put a long defender on him and stay at home on our shooters. Because for one, its not a guarantee that Zach is going to be on that night (I.e. the Spurs series) or two, a ZBo iso is now one of the most inefficient plays on our team.

 

I love Zach just like any of you, but you cannot be afraid of being without him and think we are doomed as a championship caliber team if he's not on the team.

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Zach averaged 15 and 11 this year, but what power forward averaged better other than and lamarcus Aldridge, and Portland ain't giving him up. where I'm coming from is I'm not against it, because Zach at his age is getting more average every year, theirs nothing wrong with pound it inside out but if we get no shooters then that game plan is worthless. Me personally I'm still interested in how we look with a starting small forward and shooting guard who can score with Zach and Marc, at the same time teams study you in the playoffs for the next season and San Antonio just gave the league a bible on how you stop Zach Randolph and the grizzlies. Zach averaged 15 and 11 this year, I'll give him 12 and 10 next year with no shooters and pretty much what he averaged this year with shooters .

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A big misconception from the trade Zbo crowd is that there is an undying loyalty to Zbo. No it's not all about Zbo. I can't speak for everybody but I don't get attached to players like that. A lot of it is about not believing in Gasol/Conley's scoring skills. Gasol is about as good as a 37 year old Duncan in every phase of the game except for post scoring, but it still makes a difference when needed as we just found out.

 

Conley is nowhere close to Parker. Parker has shot 50%+ for a season five times in his career. Five. At the PG spot. And the Spurs once played just as slow as the Grizzlies do. I mean he is not the finisher in the paint that Parker is, nor is his mid range shot as nearly as good. Conley is still not even consistent when wide open and Parker is drilling them back to back to back with hands all in his face now. Parker is stronger, savier and a lot more patient. He also plays with a 6'5" combo guard beside him to take a ton of pressure off of him at times. If the Spurs is the model we want to build after just how many years do we need to wait for Conley to get to that level?

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