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Thaigrizzly

How Could Trading Away Zbo Improve Us As A Team?

241 posts in this topic

 

They can't unload Channing Frye or some other bad contract if they just sign someone.

 

In a year or two, they'll be expiring. So, they dont have to get off those contracts yet. Not like they are in the tax.

 

They're probably going to tank for Andrew Wiggins. Doubt they want aging veterans.

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That's the purpose of per 36. How can you say Ed Davis doesn't do it for you, but you haven't completely reviewed his #'s or know most of his abilities to determine that? If I mention his numbers in the few games he started in Memphis, then people will say he did it during an easy stretch of the schedule or he could not be consistent. Its pointless. If you're not going to give the guy a chance, then why go in depth as to why he would fit here as our starting PF? We know he's not Zach Randolph. I don't want him to be Zach Randolph, I want him to be Ed Davis. Who he is as a player is what makes him special for this team and the direction I feel the team will be going. There were 15 games this season where he received 30 or more minutes (what ZBO usually receives. In those games, he averaged 15.5ppg , 8.9rpg and 1.5bpg. Some of the competition during those games were: Bulls, OKC, Lakers, Warriors, Bucks, Sixers, Cavs, Magic, Nets (twice) just to name a few. His FG% was in the high 50's.

 

I've seen enough of him in action in Memphis to form an opinion that he's a project. And I also don't think as of now he can be a starting P.F. for the Grizz in their present style of play.

 

Imo, he will be gone from Memphis within the next 2 years if not sooner via the trade route.

 

PS: I believe of those games where he averaged those stats, including minutes you mentioned were when he played for Toronto ( a mediocre team at best ) when their starter he substituted for was out. You can have him. I don't want him.

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Randolph and Duncan can, at least, create their own shot. I have not seen that ability from Ed yet. The midrange shooting I don't recall seeing much of at all here in Memphis. I'm not saying Ed is a bad player or anything. I just think he is more of a project than some may believe. Scoring 13ppg (don't know if that number is correct, just what I seem to have heard quoted) as a starter on a bad Toronto team may not mean much. He actually scored 9.7 ppg for Toronto this season. I like his athleticism, rebounding, and shot blocking, but I am not sure if he is really starter material yet. If the FO made a decision to trade Zach and look for either Davis or Leuer to develop they had better get someone back who can score and create their own shot.

 

Exactly.

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Player A: Restricted Area: 70% (138-198) Paint (Non RA): 43% (44-102) Mid Range: 40% 41-102 Player B: Restricted Area: 57% (205-358) Paint (Non RA): 45% (68-152) Mid Range: 34% (79-231) Player C: Restricted Area: 73% (166-229) Paint (Non RA): 47% (34-73) Mid Range: 49% (130-264) Player D: Restricted Area: 67% (168-251) Paint (Non RA): 34% (41-120) Mid Range: 43% (144-335) Player A is Davis. Player B is Zach. Player C is Ibaka. Player D is Duncan. Davis midrange game was better last season than ZBo's and on pair with Duncan. He had less attepts though. Davis also matched up well with ZBo when scoring in the paint (percentage wise). In the restricted area, Davis was one of the best in the league at scoring along with Ibaka (who mostly scored off dunks). I just added Ibaka and Duncan to check out their midrange and paint numbers in comparison to Ed.

 

These stats are flawed due to his less attempts.

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every year the keep randolph crew places the blame on our 3 point shooters. bayless is terrible, yad yada yada. if we only get dorrell wright, or somebody else. at some point we need to face facts that randolph is the problem with the offense, because he sure isn't a solution on defense. randolph is the problem, not hollins, not bayless, not prince, not anybody but randolph.

 

His salary is the problem; not Randolph.

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I will say trading Zbo does allow for our defense to get better, which would be interesting since we're already one of the best defensive teams.

 

The Spurs were relentless in attacking Zach in the pick and roll. It's a good strategy, since Zach is the weak spot in a very strong defensive starting lineup. His poor offensive performance made him somewhat of a liability on the floor. His effort wavered defensively because of the offensive struggles, which further compounded the problem. He often didn't get back on defense because he was too busy arguing with the refs about not getting a call.

 

Despite all of the above, I'm not arguing Zach should be traded. Simply highlighting a legitimate concern with him based off that last series. We have enough problems scoring, so trading our most aggressive and potent scorer is tricky. If we do trade Zach, we have to acquire someone who can replace his offensive aggression and production. I think some of us hope Marc can do that, but I don't think he has the mentality to be a big time scorer.

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Scoff if you like. BHZ put up some pretty decent videos of Ed (better than I lot of what I have seen from him in Memphis), but I'm pretty sure that a lot more could be posted of Zach doing the same and then some. I'm not saying that Ed is bad or anything and he could very well be better already than I am giving him credit for, but I am not going to automatically expect the same level of success if we move our All-Star PF and replace him with Ed Davis. I agree that Zach's contract is bad for this team and his skills are deteriorating with age each successive season. I'm not sure that we will be better next season if he is moved but it may be better for the long run.

 

Ed Davis can play in PnR, PnP, Post up, get offensive rebounds, and run the floor. Zach can post up, get offensive rebounds and.....uhh....complain at the refs?

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Ed Davis can play in PnR, PnP, Post up, get offensive rebounds, and run the floor. Zach can post up, get offensive rebounds and.....uhh....complain at the refs?

So you're saying he's better than Zach Randolph already?

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So you're saying he's better than Zach Randolph already?

If you take bang for you buck into account, yes. Why do fans and the FO love mike so much? Because he's an above average starting PG on an average starting PG's contract. Ed Davis right now is an above average player at a weak position in the nba. There are only 3 pf's worth big $'s in the league, why pay Z Bo their kinda money for not as much production when you can pay Ed much less for a slight dip in production and use the extra cash to build a more well rounded and younger team.

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Why does everyone keep breaking down Zbo's regular season performance? If Zach Randolph plays like did during the regular season then yeah Davis is a better option for less money. The hope is that the playoffs woke him up a bit, atleast the first two rounds and that shooters can prevent a disaster like the third round from happening. Yea he needs to start hitting more midrange shots. Its not like he has never been a good midrange shooter before. You dont like it, ok, but I personally believe in that more than I believe in Mike Conley turning into a scorer like Tony Parker.

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So you're saying he's better than Zach Randolph already?

 

Offensively? Yes and the synergy stats support Davis over Z-bo in every category.

 

If you want to make a case that Davis isn't a quality building block, then you should point to his defense, since he hasn't decided to bulk up after his first 3 years in the NBA, which is worrisome.

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Because Davis is not 20 and 10 every single night does not mean he cannot replace Zach. This would not be the first time a vet big has been moved so a younger big can take over in his place. I have yet to see a factual argument as to why Davis cannot start here if moving ZBo gave us better depth all around.

 

This is exactly why I said spitting out the facts would not matter because your opinion will stay the same. I've shown you games from Ed showcasing his skillsets, he's proven time and time again that when he starts he is a very effective player, the numbers show that he is efficient, he was apart of the Grizz best lineups offensively and defensively, etc.

 

When you factor in what this team can do in terms of depth with Zach on the team in comparison to what we could do with him off the team, you will realize why it would make out to be a solid move. I expect the front office to make the right decision and maybe they do keep Zach and improve the team somehow. I'll be surprised, though.

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Offensively? Yes and the synergy stats support Davis over Z-bo in every category.

 

If you want to make a case that Davis isn't a quality building block, then you should point to his defense, since he hasn't decided to bulk up after his first 3 years in the NBA, which is worrisome.

I wouldn't be to concerned with him bulking up. KG never really bulked up but he's one of the best PF's ever. It's more about carrying the right amount of weight for your body and being as strong as you can at that weight.

Because Davis is not 20 and 10 every single night does not mean he cannot replace Zach. This would not be the first time a vet big has been moved so a younger big can take over in his place. I have yet to see a factual argument as to why Davis cannot start here if moving ZBo gave us better depth all around.

 

This is exactly why I said spitting out the facts would not matter because your opinion will stay the same. I've shown you games from Ed showcasing his skillsets, he's proven time and time again that when he starts he is a very effective player, the numbers show that he is efficient, he was apart of the Grizz best lineups offensively and defensively, etc.

 

When you factor in what this team can do in terms of depth with Zach on the team in comparison to what we could do with him off the team, you will realize why it would make out to be a solid move. I expect the front office to make the right decision and maybe they do keep Zach and improve the team somehow. I'll be surprised, though.

This is my argument. You can turn Zach into an asset or 2 and add cap room to sign assets. If flipping Zach can get us a SF starter who can shoot plus consistent bench scoring and shooting then the slight drop off in points can easily be picked up with more balanced scoring from the whole team which is hard to stop. Not to mention make the team better defensively. And on the rebounding front, so what If we don't get as many off Rebs, with more shooters and scorers there are less missed shots. It balances out.

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Because Davis is not 20 and 10 every single night does not mean he cannot replace Zach. This would not be the first time a vet big has been moved so a younger big can take over in his place. I have yet to see a factual argument as to why Davis cannot start here if moving ZBo gave us better depth all around.

 

This is exactly why I said spitting out the facts would not matter because your opinion will stay the same. I've shown you games from Ed showcasing his skillsets, he's proven time and time again that when he starts he is a very effective player, the numbers show that he is efficient, he was apart of the Grizz best lineups offensively and defensively, etc.

 

When you factor in what this team can do in terms of depth with Zach on the team in comparison to what we could do with him off the team, you will realize why it would make out to be a solid move. I expect the front office to make the right decision and maybe they do keep Zach and improve the team somehow. I'll be surprised, though.

 

First off no argument on here is really "factual." Its mostly people taking what might be a fact and spinning it based on their own bias and preferences. That goes for everybody on here.

 

Second, I dont believe Zbo will net two useful players. I see one useful player and a deadweight contract. Basically, just a lesser player making less and the other player (ie Drew Gooden, Channing Frye) just being garbage.

 

Third, I get the concept. Believe me I do. We want to play faster, more wide open and all that. Like everybody else does in the NBA because dominant big men have died and rules have changed. I still dont see a team with Mike Conley being the leading scorer winning a title. He would HANDS DOWN be the worst leasing scorer on any title team. You may scoff at it but every title team, IMO, needs a guy who is a threat for 20-25 points in multiple playoff games. Zbo, when paired with Gasol, is the closest thing I see too that playing for the Grizzlies next year.

 

In the end, If there is a great trade take it. I mean if by some miracle we can get two or three useful players for Zbo then it should be considered. But he has one year left on his contract and a player option for a second year that could be renegotiated and stretched out. I personally prefer that over the one player and crap contract i see coming back and just letting Ed Davis do his thing off the bench.

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Because Davis is not 20 and 10 every single night does not mean he cannot replace Zach. This would not be the first time a vet big has been moved so a younger big can take over in his place. I have yet to see a factual argument as to why Davis cannot start here if moving Z-Bo gave us better depth ALL AROUND. This is exactly why I said spitting out the facts would not matter because your opinion will stay the same. I've shown you games from Ed showcasing his skillsets, he's proven time and time again that when he starts he is a very effective player, the numbers show that he is efficient, he was apart of the Grizz best lineups offensively and defensively, etc. When you factor in what this team can do in terms of depth with Zach on the team in comparison to what we could do with him off the team, you will realize why it would make out to be a solid move. I expect the front office to make the right decision and maybe they do keep Zach and improve the team somehow. I'll be surprised, though.

 

But can we get better depth AND be a better team all around by moving Z- Bo. If so, I'm with you on this.

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I don't think anyone is saying we are getting 2-3 good useful players for ZBo. The key is to get one and get the rest via free agency and/or draft. I expect whatever team we move ZBo to will offer some type of flexibility for us. Not to mention, we can still use our TPE as well to acquire talent. I just don't think ZBo fits in with what the front office is planning to do. Just opinion, though.

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One thing people forget when considering replacing Zach with Ed, teams double-team Zach Randolph, I haven't heard of any team doubling Ed Davis.

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I don't think anyone is saying we are getting 2-3 good useful players for ZBo. The key is to get one and get the rest via free agency and/or draft. I expect whatever team we move ZBo to will offer some type of flexibility for us. Not to mention, we can still use our TPE as well to acquire talent. I just don't think ZBo fits in with what the front office is planning to do. Just opinion, though.

 

Yea I have seen proposals that net two useful players for Zbo. Illaysova and Redick comes to mind. Turner and Young was another. Dudley and Gortat. I have seen few proposals that say what will really be offered which says many are just in la la land about this.

 

One nice lesser player and flexibility is a nice thought but again who is giving out cap space like that? At the very least we will have to see where West, Jefferson, JSmooth and Millsap land first. A guy like Pau Gasol might be amnestied too. And if they have to take back a garbage contract that many teams are SURE to offer that would kill flexibilty to sign anyone. And after we have wait a whole month or so on the other cheaper power forwards to land who will be left to sign?

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Yea I have seen proposals that net two useful players for Zbo. Illaysova and Redick comes to mind. Turner and Young was another. Dudley and Gortat. I have seen few proposals that say what will really be offered which says many are just in la la land about this.

 

One nice lesser player and flexibility is a nice thought but again who is giving out cap space like that? At the very least we will have to see where West, Jefferson, JSmooth and Millsap land first. A guy like Pau Gasol might be amnestied too. And if they have to take back a garbage contract that many teams are SURE to offer that would kill flexibilty to sign anyone. And after we have wait a whole month or so on the other cheaper power forwards to land who will be left to sign?

 

The.nets are pretty good at wataing cap space.

 

Humps,brooks picks type deal is nice in the long run.

Instant cap room

Another tpe

An expiring

A young guard

Some picks

 

That really is an ideal trade imho.

It's not always about the players you instantly get back in a trade.

 

 

Its funny posters on this board forget that after the pau trade.

 

 

 

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The Nets aren't taking ZBo without moving the money tied to Gerald Wallace.

Probably but you never know what the front office of other team's will or won't do.

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Probably but you never know what the front office of other team's will or won't do.

 

Yep. Especially a front office that spent a trillion dollars last offseason like it was nothing.

 

Why would they pass up the opportunity to have a starting 5 of DWill, Johnson, Wallace, ZBo, Lopez in the East? They would then be able to match up wtih the likes of the Heat. I'm sure they would probably lack depth, but oh well. Not too far fetched when looking at what their starting 5 could be.

 

If we made a deal with the Nets, I would expect a 3rd team to be involved that would take Humphries.

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So at this point we are hoping another team "stupidly" offers us more than they should to take Zach off our hands?

 

Otherwise, in a "fair" trade, we likely will not be vastly improved by moving him?

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So at this point we are hoping another team "stupidly" offers us more than they should to take Zach off our hands? Otherwise, in a "fair" trade, we likely will not be vastly improved by moving him?

 

Arguments often stray in many directions but that statement right there has really been my point all along.

 

If one were to just say we want to trade Zbo so we can play more uptempo and open and guys like Conley, Wroten, Davis and whatever other youngster is picked up can develop and we become better and more versatile down the line and just leave it at that, then I could feel you on that. For the most part young players today just don't play as well in our type of system.

 

To try to actually sell yourself or anyone else on the idea that we can actually get a good enough deal for Zbo that the team's chance at a title would improve NEXT YEAR without really adding anymore impact scorers and just surrounding Conley/Gasol with a bunch of role players (while Conley/Gasol are not really pure scorers and borderline role players themselves) is just a little far fetched, IMO.

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Arguments often stray in many directions but that statement right there has really been my point all along.

 

If one were to just say we want to trade Zbo so we can play more uptempo and open and guys like Conley, Wroten, Davis and whatever other youngster is picked up can develop and we become better and more versatile down the line and just leave it at that, then I could feel you on that. For the most part young players today just don't play as well in our type of system.

 

To try to actually sell yourself or anyone else on the idea that we can actually get a good enough deal for Zbo that the team's chance at a title would improve NEXT YEAR without really adding anymore impact scorers and just surrounding Conley/Gasol with a bunch of role players (while Conley/Gasol are not really pure scorers and borderline role players themselves) is just a little far fetched, IMO.

look at what Denver did offensively with a bunch of role players. Our defense with that type of offense would be beast.

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