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realgfan

Grizzlies Need More Diverse Players Next Year

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With all the steals he's averaging (2.44), he's averaging almost the same TOs (2.22).

 

I'd say this is a good measure of your game knowledge. Conley is #10 in the league in steals/TO, and #5 among guards. Throwing that stat out that he almost turns it over as much as he steals it is ridiculous. Only 12 guys in the league have a ratio over 1 for this stat. (Grizzlies guards just happen to be 2 of them.)

 

(He's also #10 in assists, and #9 in assist/TO ratio, so I can't really complain about him in the assist department either. Only 2 guys in the league average over 9 assists, so that is kind of wishful thinking when you think Conley should be up there...by the way, those guys turn the ball over almost 4 times a game each.)

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Iggy    0

Conley is a way better shooter than you guys are giving him credit for. Hes a middle of the pack shooter at pg an not bottom level like you all are suggesting. Conley is very underappreciated on this board. We would be 10 + games under .500 right now without him running the offense as well as he does

 

Not true. Among pgs on pace to make 300 fgs, Conley is 17th in fg% among pgs. Among all pgs, he's 31st. Among pgs who average 20 minutes or more per game, he's 23rd. Among those who average 15 minutes per game or more, he's 25th. And he's 26th among pgs in 3pt fg% among those on track to make 55 3pt fgs. And 28th among all pgs.

 

He's not a good shooter based on any of those stats. And not middle of the pack. And remember he's left wide open half the time, unlike, say, Curry, Nash, or Paul. The guy clanks wide-open shots from inside the arc on a regular basis.

 

Conley needs to take a page out of Rondo's book and drive to the basket an additional 2-3 times per game. That could easily account for 10 more points either from a layup, an assist, or drawing a shooting foul.

 

Similarly, Rudy needs to also remain aggressive going to the cup. He has to continue to put pressure on the zebras to blow the whistle.

 

Then next year with either DA or Speights hitting that 17 footer with Zach and Marc cleaning up off the other side these questions will become moot.

 

Agreed. Conley doesn't put pressure on teams shooting that nasty shot from outside. Also, going to the rim will help space the floor and create opportunities for other players. I don't know why he plays so far away from the basket pounding the ball. Go into the lane, near the rim -- good things will happen.

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Allen    0

Not true. Among pgs on pace to make 300 fgs, Conley is 17th in fg% among pgs. Among all pgs, he's 31st. Among pgs who average 20 minutes or more per game, he's 23rd. Among those who average 15 minutes per game or more, he's 25th. And he's 26th among pgs in 3pt fg% among those on track to make 55 3pt fgs. And 28th among all pgs.

 

He's not a good shooter based on any of those stats. And not middle of the pack. And remember he's left wide open half the time, unlike, say, Curry, Nash, or Paul. The guy clanks wide-open shots from inside the arc on a regular basis.

 

 

 

Agreed. Conley doesn't put pressure on teams shooting that nasty shot from outside. Also, going to the rim will help space the floor and create opportunities for other players. I don't know why he plays so far away from the basket pounding the ball. Go into the lane, near the rim -- good things will happen.

 

Hes 17th among pgs that have shot enough to qualify. Thats all that matters. A pg who is 4 for 6 shooting for the season doesnt count. Thats middle of the pack

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grizzwhizz    0

 

 

Hes 17th among pgs that have shot enough to qualify. Thats all that matters. A pg who is 4 for 6 shooting for the season doesnt count. Thats middle of the pack

 

I think Iggy wins this one. Mike is below average shooting. Plus a lot of his made fgs are layups in transition. Teams know this. Which is why he is wide open nearly all game.

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Allen    0

I think Iggy wins this one. Mike is below average shooting. Plus a lot of his made fgs are layups in transition. Teams know this. Which is why he is wide open nearly all game.

 

Percentage wise he is 17th out of all the pgs in the league. Hes a better shooter than a lot of starting pgs in the league. Rondo, Dj Augustin, Rose, Kidd, Lowry, Collison, Sessions, Westbrook, Wall, Evans, Rubio, Felton, Jennings. Conley is a better shooter than all. Conley isnt a great shooter but he isnt close to as bad as you guys are acting and his shooting isnt nearly as big of a problem

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Iggy    0

Hes 17th among pgs that have shot enough to qualify. Thats all that matters. A pg who is 4 for 6 shooting for the season doesnt count. Thats middle of the pack

 

23rd among pgs who play 20 minutes or more per game, not 4 for 6 for the season. You lose.

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Allen    0

23rd among pgs who play 20 minutes or more per game, not 4 for 6 for the season. You lose.

 

link? espn has him at 17. How is he 17th overall but 23 among pgs that play 20 minutes? And what a weird stat to look up. only someone who is reaching would pull that up. Conley is a better shooter than a lot of starting pgs

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Iggy    0

link? espn has him at 17. How is he 17th overall but 23 among pgs that play 20 minutes? And what a weird stat to look up. only someone who is reaching would pull that up. Conley is a better shooter than a lot of starting pgs

 

Hoopstats

 

Espn only includes players who are on pace to make 300 fgs, so no Curry, Dragic, Lin, Farmer, Nelson, Harris, or Chalmers. So you're saying those guys don't count? That sounds like a major reach. Also, if Stuckey is a pg, than Conley is 24th (espn counts him as one, but hoopstats doesn't).

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Allen    0

Hoopstats

 

Espn only includes players who are on pace to make 300 fgs, so no Curry, Dragic, Lin, Farmer, Nelson, Harris, or Chalmers. So you're saying those guys don't count? That sounds like a major reach. Also, if Stuckey is a pg, than Conley is 24th (espn counts him as one, but hoopstats doesn't).

 

Your site says hes 31st out of 90 nba pgs. 31st out of 90 is horrible? Ahead of Wall, Holiday, Deron Williams, Lowry, Jennings, Barea, Rose, Kidd, Hindrich, Felton, Augustin, Rubio, Fisher, Flynn. You lost. Conleys lack of shooting is way blown out of proportion and overstated

 

http://www.hoopsstat.../12/2/fgpct/1-1

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Iggy    0

Your site says hes 31st out of 90 nba pgs. 31st out of 90 is horrible? Ahead of Wall, Holiday, Deron Williams, Lowry, Jennings, Barea, Rose, Kidd, Hindrich, Felton, Augustin, Rubio, Fisher, Flynn. You lost. Conleys lack of shooting is way blown out of proportion and overstated

 

http://www.hoopsstat.../12/2/fgpct/1-1

 

You're ignoring my point. He's 23rd or 24th (including Stuckey) among guys who play 20 min or more -- you know, guys that actually play heavy when their healthy. Stop trying to spin it

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masr    0

How is Mike a liability on offense he averages 13 and 7, in my opinion for a point guard on a time like the Grizz, those are pretty solid numbers.

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Wells    0

Because steals/TO ratio is an overrated stat. LOL. Do the math. Assuming there are 2 points scored off of every TO or steal: 2.44*2 - 2.22*2 = 0.44. 0.44 difference per game isn't really that big. What about the points he gives up to opposing PGs? And you make it seem as if his quickness is that good. Most of the elite PGs in the NBA are cat-quick. I don't think he's really superbad, he's actually a very decent PG, I just can't understand some of the posters here give him more credit than he deserves when he actually has some weaknesses bringing the team down. Not trying to be contrarian here, just stating an observation.

 

After thinking about this some, I'll have to disagree with you here about the Steal/turnover ratio. Not all turnovers are created equal. Your two point assumption off a turnover is not really accurate. When a bad pass goes out of bounds or a player commits a charge, it counts as a turnover but the opposing team has to inbound the ball and you get to have a defensive set against them, often leading to a defensive stop. This is in contrast to a steal which many times leads to a fast break and a made basket. Mike's turnovers are typically of the bad pass variety where the ball has to be inbounded. He very rarely gets his pocket picked while he generates those type of turnovers by the opponents.

 

Tonight was a good example of this difference. The Grizzlies had a lot of turnovers, but they did not give up a lot of points off those turnovers. Why? Because they were turnovers that resulted in an out of bounds play rather than a fast break. In contrast, the Grizzlies generated a lot of points off turnovers because the turnovers the T'Wolves made were on steals and the Grizzlies got to the basket in fast break opportunities.

 

There's a nice article about Mike's effectiveness on the break because of his steals in the New York Times Online from yesterday.

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I'd say this is a good measure of your game knowledge. Conley is #10 in the league in steals/TO, and #5 among guards. Throwing that stat out that he almost turns it over as much as he steals it is ridiculous. Only 12 guys in the league have a ratio over 1 for this stat. (Grizzlies guards just happen to be 2 of them.)

 

(He's also #10 in assists, and #9 in assist/TO ratio, so I can't really complain about him in the assist department either. Only 2 guys in the league average over 9 assists, so that is kind of wishful thinking when you think Conley should be up there...by the way, those guys turn the ball over almost 4 times a game each.)

None of those matters much when he misses open looks and lets opponents light him up, especially 3s. So S/T ratio is what makes him so amazing? Maybe a little, because it's all he could do to make up for everything. It's an overrated stat. And yes we would have lost without him a lot and he looks really good, because his competition is Pargo, Selby and just recently Arenas. I would not deny his mastery of the system, his abilities as floor general and all the other non-quantifiable intangibles he gives to the team. He just really needs to give more consistent scoring/shooting.

After thinking about this some, I'll have to disagree with you here about the Steal/turnover ratio. Not all turnovers are created equal. Your two point assumption off a turnover is not really accurate. When a bad pass goes out of bounds or a player commits a charge, it counts as a turnover but the opposing team has to inbound the ball and you get to have a defensive set against them, often leading to a defensive stop. This is in contrast to a steal which many times leads to a fast break and a made basket. Mike's turnovers are typically of the bad pass variety where the ball has to be inbounded. He very rarely gets his pocket picked while he generates those type of turnovers by the opponents. Tonight was a good example of this difference. The Grizzlies had a lot of turnovers, but they did not give up a lot of points off those turnovers. Why? Because they were turnovers that resulted in an out of bounds play rather than a fast break. In contrast, the Grizzlies generated a lot of points off turnovers because the turnovers the T'Wolves made were on steals and the Grizzlies got to the basket in fast break opportunities. There's a nice article about Mike's effectiveness on the break because of his steals in the New York Times Online from yesterday.

In the same vein that not all steals are made the same. Not every steal Conley makes leads to a fastbreak layup. At the same time, Conley's TOs could even lead to 3 point shots given our porous perimeter defense. The stat could go both ways. Maybe a better stat would be how much points off of stolen possessions and points lost out of TOs Conley has gotten per game.

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Allen    0

You're ignoring my point. He's 23rd or 24th (including Stuckey) among guys who play 20 min or more -- you know, guys that actually play heavy when their healthy. Stop trying to spin it

 

And your ignoring my point. im not spinning anything. How many pgs in the league average 20 or more min? Conley is 23rd out of what?

 

but look at the list of guys that Conley has a higher percentage than. This discussion is silly.

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dgause    0

I don't think this team will win a championship with the current backcourt and head coach. Conley although underrated, needs a dynamic off guard next to him for this team to get to the next level. Will that happen? Who knows. As far as everything else goes, if only Dante was a legit 6-10. If only OJ could finally pull his head out of his booty hole and be the combo guard off the bench.

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chipc3    0

I don't think this team will win a championship with the current backcourt and head coach. Conley although underrated, needs a dynamic off guard next to him for this team to get to the next level. Will that happen? Who knows. As far as everything else goes, if only Dante was a legit 6-10. If only OJ could finally pull his head out of his booty hole and be the combo guard off the bench.

 

I think the team is ready to compete for a championship this season if everyone pulls together and those lagging get back into shape (Arenas and Randolph). It's too bad we didn't have this team together all season because the group assembled is pretty special.

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dgause    0

Teams pack the paint and dare the Grizz to shoot and it's pretty much a done deal Chip. OKC would've been TOAST last year if anybody could hit the broad side of a barn. Conley has improved his outside shooting but is still inconsistent. OJ's confidence has been shot since "The Card Game" and Tony Allen gives me 6 heart attacks at once when I see him dribble more than once.

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chipc3    0

Teams pack the paint and dare the Grizz to shoot and it's pretty much a done deal Chip. OKC would've been TOAST last year if anybody could hit the broad side of a barn. Conley has improved his outside shooting but is still inconsistent. OJ's confidence has been shot since "The Card Game" and Tony Allen gives me 6 heart attacks at once when I see him dribble more than once.

 

You can't pack the paint as much when Rudy is on the court. The Grizzlies didn't have him in the series last year against OKC. Marc Gasol is greatly improved from last season. Mayo, Arenas, Speights, Pondexter and Cunningham make the bench much better than last season. This isn't last year's team so what happened last year has little effect on this season's chances.

 

They may not win the Championship. They may not win a series. They may not make the playoffs. Still I think the team, is far superior to last season's team on paper. If they have the time to build the chemistry, the Grizzlies would make any team terrified to play them in the playoffs. I just don't know if there is time to get Arenas and Z-Bo up to the level we would need them to be at to compete in the playoffs.

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Iron Mike    0

since when was AST/TO ratio an overrated stat.

 

We have here a PG who is the top pickpocket in the NBA and in the top 5 in AST/TO ratio.

Give the man some credit sheesh.

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Acehigh718    0

since when was AST/TO ratio an overrated stat.

 

We have here a PG who is the top pickpocket in the NBA and in the top 5 in AST/TO ratio.

Give the man some credit sheesh.

^ We have a winner!

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I think the team is ready to compete for a championship this season if everyone pulls together and those lagging get back into shape (Arenas and Randolph). It's too bad we didn't have this team together all season because the group assembled is pretty special.

 

Agree!!

 

YO

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Iggy    0

Unfortunately, the Thunder, Spurs, and probably the Lakers are all better this season too.

 

We need to be integrated and rolling by the playoffs or it will be a quick out to one of those teams.

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chipc3    0

Unfortunately, the Thunder, Spurs, and probably the Lakers are all better this season too.

 

We need to be integrated and rolling by the playoffs or it will be a quick out to one of those teams.

 

Bring on the Lakers! They had to go to two OTs and have a ridiculous edge in free throws to beat the Grizzlies who were without Z-Bo and Rudy Gay for the game. We blew them out at their place with both players back despite another ridiculous free throw advantage. Even the ESPN commentators were making fun of the refs in that game.

 

The Spurs and Thunder are great teams and no one wants to play them in the first round. However if the Grizzlies have to play one of them in the first round then we'll give them all they want and more importantly all the team has to give.

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Teams pack the paint and dare the Grizz to shoot and it's pretty much a done deal Chip. OKC would've been TOAST last year if anybody could hit the broad side of a barn. Conley has improved his outside shooting but is still inconsistent. OJ's confidence has been shot since "The Card Game" and Tony Allen gives me 6 heart attacks at once when I see him dribble more than once.

 

Teams will pay for packing the paint against the Grizz in the playoffs this year. Last year we only had OJ, Mike, Battier, and DA that were threats to hit open jumpers and create space for Zbo and Marc and we see how that went. DA hurt his hand in Spurs series and his shot was affected, Battier shooting has been declining over the years, Mike shot was off and Heck if just OJ would've hit more than 35% of his jumpers in the playoffs we wouldve beaten OKC.

This year we have Rudy, OJ, Mike, Mo, Qpon, and also Arenas (a reasonable threat) to keep the paint open. I seriously doubt we will run into a series when all of those guys collectively loose their shooting stroke. Really the only thing we have to worry about is if Zbo gets his mojo back and we can go back to pounding the paint half-court offense. This team def has NBA finals potential.

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Grizzlies long-range shooting: 0-11. Not a typo, not a misprint. Just bawful. Can someone check to see if the Memphis guards/wings were in on some kind of point-shaving scheme? They barely shot 30% for the game. Missing two out of every three shots can't be normal can it? Actually, looking at some of their players, I guess it is. Call off the investigation.

 

http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2012/03/worst-of-night-march-27-2012.html

 

The bigs saved us last night, although I guess that was due to Lionell Hollins leadership from what I'm told. You take away their 17-for-26 and you are left with the basketbawful stat of 30% shooting. Great strategy. Wouldnt want to spoil it by having Haddadi get easy dunks against Brad Miller or Anthony Tolliver.

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